IF Society broke down for any reason, War, Storm, Inserection, how would you prepare?

[ValleYum]

Did anyone else on here read Pat Frank's book Alas Babylon?

From a review:

Though written almost 50 years ago, Frank's post-apocolyptic vision of what might result after the missiles are launched should still serve as a warning for 2008 and beyond. The Dark Ages are only the push of a button or fall of a civilization away.(

Things I learned from this book: Salt, canning jars, matches or the ability to make fire, seed to grow food, medical supplies, fishing gear, knives/whetstone, guns and ammo will be worth their weight in gold. So will the ability to have potable water.

My thoughts: Do I have a hand operated can opener? A kerosene lamp with kerosene to burn in it? Do I live in a climate where I will be able to grown produce yet be temperate enough to survive without commercially provided power? So much to think about and try to prepare for.

Awesome water filtration link, Frogger!

[IamOld]

David Brin in the novel Postman, posits a different reason for the ultimate collapse of society...it is a bit of a devil's advocate...sorry guys, you all ran into a huge sci-fi fan here :-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Postman

[bcohen]

I have long thought that the way our country is headed, things will end with a second civil war. As the Baby Boom generation dies off, and those of us who are "coming of age" see a country where rights and liberties are almost nonexistant, where decent jobs and meaningful opportunities are gone, and where the politicians in charge cater to multinational corporations rather than their own citizens, you can be sure that discontent will begin rising fast. When you add on the problems of crippling national debt and crippling student loan debt, the situation could get ugly fast.

What I predict will happen is an eventual collapse of the banking system, together with a massive stock market crash due to corporate mismanagement and the inability for companies to maintain growth in a nation with high unemployment and a large percentage of the population living in poverty. Even the government will not be able to "bail out" the affected institutions, due to the fact that it will be paying out too much in public assistance and entitlement benefits, spending too much on the military and on the huge incarcerated "underclass", with too little tax revenue on account of the high unemployment and underemployment. I think that there will probably be another civil war here--a class civil war, not a race civil war--and this will happen in my lifetime.

I have no idea how we would survive here in such a situation, especially if it lasts for a long time. Because of most peoples' greed and selfishness--focusing on "me", rather than "us"--I suspect there will be a lot of infighting, looting, and unnecessary violence. I remember seeing news reports of this in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, rather than people working together as a community to rebuild and take care of each other.

Fortunately, my wife is from Mexico and is still a citizen there, and she believes that I could get a job there in the field I am studying (computer science), so if necessary we could move there. Her dad, as well as both grandparents own large houses and would be happy to let us stay there while we save up for a home of our own.

[IamOld]

That may be an interesting scenario - unless this country deals with...the...ehem..."inherent contradictions of capitalism" your scenario is plausible.

I recall a video game for the PC from a few years ago that posits such a future...

I have long thought that the way our country is headed, things will end with a second civil war. As the Baby Boom generation dies off, and those of us who are "coming of age" see a country where rights and liberties are almost nonexistant, where decent jobs and meaningful opportunities are gone, and where the politicians in charge cater to multinational corporations rather than their own citizens, you can be sure that discontent will begin rising fast. When you add on the problems of crippling national debt and crippling student loan debt, the situation could get ugly fast.

What I predict will happen is an eventual collapse of the banking system, together with a massive stock market crash due to corporate mismanagement and the inability for companies to maintain growth in a nation with high unemployment and a large percentage of the population living in poverty. Even the government will not be able to "bail out" the affected institutions, due to the fact that it will be paying out too much in public assistance and entitlement benefits, spending too much on the military and on the huge incarcerated "underclass", with too little tax revenue on account of the high unemployment and underemployment. I think that there will probably be another civil war here--a class civil war, not a race civil war--and this will happen in my lifetime.

I have no idea how we would survive here in such a situation, especially if it lasts for a long time. Because of most peoples' greed and selfishness--focusing on "me", rather than "us"--I suspect there will be a lot of infighting, looting, and unnecessary violence. I remember seeing news reports of this in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, rather than people working together as a community to rebuild and take care of each other.

Fortunately, my wife is from Mexico and is still a citizen there, and she believes that I could get a job there in the field I am studying (computer science), so if necessary we could move there. Her dad, as well as both grandparents own large houses and would be happy to let us stay there while we save up for a home of our own.

[tobee43]

a friend of mine passed this to me, written by their friends Jane & Joe D. (i don't want to give their real names athough the first names are really real), and i think it's right on mark.

with everything being said, it is remarkable that we take note of the following:

The 26th amendment (granting the right to vote for 18 year-olds) took only 3 months & 8 days to be ratified! Why? Simple! The people demanded it. That was in 1971...before computers, before e-mail,before cell phones, etc.

Of the 27 amendments to the Constitution, seven (7) took 1 year orless to become the law of the land...all because of public pressure. what we should all do, and this writing is really coming from a friend of my friend, is, asking each addressee to forward this email to a minimum of twenty people on their address list; in turn ask each of those to do likewise.

In three days, most people in The United States of America will have the message. This is one idea that really should be passed around.

Congressional Reform Act of 2011

1. No Tenure / No Pension. A Congressman collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when they are out of office.

2. All Senate and House of Representatives members (past, present & future) will participate in Social Security. All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system, and all Congress men and women participate at the same level as the American people. Funds collected may not be usedfor any other purpose or programs.

3. Congress men and women can purchase their own retirement plan and will pay the same rates as all Americans do.

4. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay will be determined by the individual states they represent every two years with the raises limited to the lower of CPI or 3%. with no special adjustments.

5. Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the same health care system as the states they represent and the American people.

6. Congress will equally abide by all laws they impose on the American people. No provisions for special treatment will be allowed.

7. All contracts with past and present Congressmen are void effective 1/1/12. The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen. Congressmen made all these contracts for themselves. Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers envisioned citizen legislators, so ours should serve their term(s),
then go home and back to work.

If each person contacts a minimum of twenty people then it will only take three days for most people (in the U.S. ) to receive the
message. Maybe it is time.

THIS IS HOW WE BEGIN TO FIX CONGRESS AND OUR COUNTRY.

[tobee43]

David Brin in the novel Postman, posits a different reason for the ultimate collapse of society...it is a bit of a devil's advocate...sorry guys, you all ran into a huge sci-fi fan here :-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Postman

get out of here...i have used david brin's example of the postman numerous times...LOL!!!!!! that is just got me stopped in my path that you should bring it up. actually, nope, it doesn't surprise me.


go rent the movie if someone hasn't seen it. i guess even huxley has it wrong? although i could go for a soma or two or three or ten to make it through some of these days!

[IamOld]

Hmm...Soma...:-)

Right Tobee - I would just add that Congress-folk should have the SAME pension as any other fed employee - if we don't have that consideration, then there really will only be the rich who will be Congress-folk.

Re Raises - same as other fed ee's.
AND ALSO - there is a great site called movetoamend.org - to amend the 14th Amendment to read "NATURAL" persons...that is, that would nullfy the Sup Ct's holding that corporations are people...

[tobee43]

Hmm...Soma...:-)

Right Tobee - I would just add that Congress-folk should have the SAME pension as any other fed employee - if we don't have that consideration, then there really will only be the rich who will be Congress-folk.

Re Raises - same as other fed ee's.AND ALSO - there is a great site called movement.org - to amend the 14th Amendment to read "NATURAL" persons...that is, that would nullfy the Sup Ct's holding that corporations are people...

i actually think the raises should be done on merit...much like many other people in this country. we as the constituents, should send in our review and recommendations...as well as vote on what they should get..or NOT get.

[LadyInTheRed]

go rent the movie if someone hasn't seen it. i guess even huxley has it wrong? although i could go for a soma or two or three or ten to make it through some of these days!

I've seen the movie. After reading the synopsis of the book, it sounds like the movie only scratches the surface of what is in the book, which is the case of most movies based on books. I think I'll read the book.

The movie was good. But, I'd like any movie with Tom Petty!

As far as surviving a disaster is concerned, I'm in earthquake country and live a couple of miles away from a major fault that is due for a major quake. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. My husband and I have some emergency food and water stored, but not enough. We've been intending to build up a better emergency kit. I suppose we could start eating racoons and opossum and even rats. We also have space to grow food. Ocean fishing is not far, but not really walking distance. An estuary to the S.F. Bay is walking distance and the Bay itself quite a bit further, but still walkable if needed. But fish from the estuary or bay would probably be my last choice. We have camping gear for cooking and shelter and know how to start a fire after we run out of propane. The one thing we need to add is a gun of some sort. We've been talking about getting a gun for home defense for a while. Things are bad enough in our city as it is. In a disaster, I'm sure we'll need to protect what we and our neighbors have from roving gangs who think they can take whatever they want. I'm thinking a shot gun. If i'm going to have to use the thing, I want to make sure I don't miss! But, a shot gun would tear up small animal and make it not so good for eating. So, maybe we need a couple of guns.

[tobee43]

I've seen the movie. After reading the synopsis of the book, it sounds like the movie only scratches the surface of what is in the book, which is the case of most movies based on books. I think I'll read the book.

The movie was good. But, I'd like any movie with Tom Petty!

As far as surviving a disaster is concerned, I'm in earthquake country and live a couple of miles away from a major fault that is due for a major quake. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. My husband and I have some emergency food and water stored, but not enough. We've been intending to build up a better emergency kit. I suppose we could start eating racoons and opossum and even rats. We also have space to grow food. Ocean fishing is not far, but not really walking distance. An estuary to the S.F. Bay is walking distance and the Bay itself quite a bit further, but still walkable if needed. But fish from the estuary or bay would probably be my last choice. We have camping gear for cooking and shelter and know how to start a fire after we run out of propane. The one thing we need to add is a gun of some sort. We've been talking about getting a gun for home defense for a while. Things are bad enough in our city as it is. In a disaster, I'm sure we'll need to protect what we and our neighbors have from roving gangs who think they can take whatever they want. I'm thinking a shot gun. If i'm going to have to use the thing, I want to make sure I don't miss! But, a shot gun would tear up small animal and make it not so good for eating. So, maybe we need a couple of guns.

oh yes, the book it much better! but the movie although sooooooooo long, i think does, at the very least, get some of the message through.

LOL!! i think ken costner???? was tom petty in there??? i should have noticed

i hear you about the earthquake situation. it was a bit humorous when i moved east and they had these violent thunder and lightening storms. i use to tell everyone i prefer a little earthquake in their stead, since i was raised with them. a little shaking here and there. although i remember one big one were i was playing jacks under the kitchen table (thankfully) and just watched in slow mo the frig fall right over.

when the bay bridge got hit i was watching the giants game on tv on the east coast, and talking to my mom in the bay area when we got cut off and i couldn't reach any family for 4 days! my brother in law would or should have been on that bridge when it hit, but for some reason, only known to the unknown, he left work early that day.

when i was little the all closet was full of water and canned goods. my mom dried food and canned it as well. (i think it was because of WWII), but she was a survivalist. i think i new how to make a fire by the time i was 5!! not with a flint tho LOL!!! but she was on the "ready". now looking back, the fear of the nazis, and then russia dropping the bomb really effected her.

i always HATED guns, but being married to someone that carried, i had to learn to respect them, and i have my own cute little 22. that doesn't make that big of holes! what's worse is buck shot! my dh uncle gave us a rabbit he hunted. i cooked it slow with honey and butter all day, it looked picture perfect until we took that first bite and spit out a hand full of little plellets..terrible! i think i'll have to get better with a bow and arrow

[LadyInTheRed]

LOL!! i think ken costner???? was tom petty in there??? i should have noticed

Kevin Costner was the star, but Tom Petty had a small part. He played the Mayor of Bridge City. I'm at work and can't view videos, but this one should show him in the movie.

when the bay bridge got hit i was watching the giants game on tv on the east coast, and talking to my mom in the bay area when we got cut off and i couldn't reach any family for 4 days! my brother in law would or should have been on that bridge when it hit, but for some reason, only known to the unknown, he left work early that day.

Traffic was very light on the Bay Bridge and Nimitz freeway (the two decker that pancaked) that day because the Giants and As were playing against each other in the World Series. Many people were at the game or somewhere watching the game when they normally would have been driving home. If it weren't for the World Series, more people would have been killed on the Bay Bridge and the Nimitz. I believe only one person was killed on the bridge. I lived in San Francisco at the time and it was very frustrating trying to get news because it was all coming from the reporters at the game and they were focused on reporting about what was happening at the stadium.

i think i'll have to get better with a bow and arrow

Not a bad idea. I would need some practice too. The last time I shot a bow and arrow was when I was in the Girl Scouts.

[AngelinaCatHub]

Did anyone else on here read Pat Frank's book Alas Babylon?

From a review:



Things I learned from this book: Salt, canning jars, matches or the ability to make fire, seed to grow food, medical supplies, fishing gear, knives/whetstone, guns and ammo will be worth their weight in gold. So will the ability to have potable water.

My thoughts: Do I have a hand operated can opener? A kerosene lamp with kerosene to burn in it? Do I live in a climate where I will be able to grown produce yet be temperate enough to survive without commercially provided power? So much to think about and try to prepare for.

Awesome water filtration link, Frogger!

VallyYum, in my early days here in FL, it was required reading. I read few books. I literally read "Alas Babylon" no less than 38 times, not an exaggeration. The "Postman" was fantastic and as I married a wonderful gal who's Mother was postmaster in our town for near 40 years, her mother long before was Postmaster as well, my wife's father was head postal clerk, passed away suddenly in the Post Office when she was ten, Mrs. last job was in City Hall the 1915 post office, my daughter and son-in-law both works in a post office, I do believe we liked that movie.

I am impressed with all who have commented on this thread. It is a carry over from a previous thread that was heading this way, but off topic of the original OP.

Many wise ideas. I feel most are strong and will fight for right and some are not and would just give it up. I don't believe my last phrase as being true, as all of us are either in bankruptcy or have been. The amount of stress applied there is significant and those who say would give up, would not be here now. They are either working for a betterment in life, or they would have been gone by now, a failure. There are NO FAILURES on this Forum.

Please consider addressing this thread as to what you would do to prepare to survive due to any cataclysm. It does not matter what kind as they are all the same.

Personally I am in fear of our Country going down. Right now, we are bulls eye to the latest hurricane so the preparation is the same. Even in a natural disaster, there will be looters (see Katrina break down and LCD TV's walking out of Walmarts in salt water air).

My life is mostly in back of me. However, I have no fear of adversarial actions and have no objection to down a person who would down me or mine. I've lived an "interesting" life and have learned not to fear anything. I can say no more about why.

I love this Country and if I can say I fear anything at all, I do fear our future. This is not physical fear. It is melancholy fear. I can do nothing about it but vote. 'Hub

[tobee43]

[QUOTE=LadyInTheRed;538332]Kevin Costner was the star, but Tom Petty had a small part. He played the Mayor of Bridge City. I'm at work and can't view videos, but this one should show him in the movie.

oh yes! wow....GREAT call!!! you remembered him as the mayor, really, i'm so impressed since it was a small part in a BIG movie.

Traffic was very light on the Bay Bridge and Nimitz freeway (the two decker that pancaked) that day because the Giants and As were playing against each other in the World Series. Many people were at the game or somewhere watching the game when they normally would have been driving home. If it weren't for the World Series, more people would have been killed on the Bay Bridge and the Nimitz. I believe only one person was killed on the bridge. I lived in San Francisco at the time and it was very frustrating trying to get news because it was all coming from the reporters at the game and they were focused on reporting about what was happening at the stadium.

yes, since i'm a giants fan, (although the year the A's were in the world series, catfish hunter was the pitcher, if you're old enough to remember, they ALL had mustaches on the entire team! LOL) and from my old house in san bruno, we used to be able to see candlestick park from afar. my brother in law was also working in san fran at the time even tho he and my sister lived and are still living in moraga in the east bay. but i remember the terrible pictures coming out on the news of the cracks and the smashed cars. it's was terrible. the worse i ever remembered in my lifetime, in the bay area. i don't think i was ever so scared about my family.

Not a bad idea. I would need some practice too. The last time I shot a bow and arrow was when I was in the Girl Scouts

.

i was on the san bruno archery team when i was 8 years old!!! LOL!!! i used to LOVE it.

[AngelinaCat]

Actually, 'The Postman' by David Brin, is essentially three books in one, with only the first part dealing with the character that becomes 'The Postman'. If you can get an audiobook form of it that is abridged, it will cover the first part of the book and ends with Gordon, the 'Postman' arriving at Pineview. The movie is very much different than the book.

[tobee43]

Actually, 'The Postman' by David Brin, is essentially three books in one, with only the first part dealing with the character that becomes 'The Postman'. If you can get an audiobook form of it that is abridged, it will cover the first part of the book and ends with Gordon, the 'Postman' arriving at Pineview. The movie is very much different than the book.

i have yet to get a audiobook! i was just telling dh about the idea of getting it! i would love to listen to it being read to me although, i still love reading. i know the movie was so different. it seems likely hollywood rarely gets it correct when developing books into movies.