The final battle for middle-class Americans? Watch Verizon's unions strike...

[shark66]

Once upon a time, unions were very powerful, and strikes quite common...not that way anymore, for a variety of reasons.

I don't believe that anyone saw this one coming, and the way it plays out may very well determine the fate of unionized workforce in other industries...and, to some extent, the middle-class in general - whatever's left of it to begin with...

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/08/verizon_workers_outline_differ.html

Good luck to us all,including these folks on strike all over the East Coast...

[kornellred]

Oh man....I have Verizon DSL...things could get very "iffy" on a moment's notice. I guess a lot of us will see just how robust the land line communications system is.

Unions have been on the decline for decades now. I was in the Steelworkers Union from 1971 until 1983, working in the nonferrous metals segment (a copper refinery). The labor contract for our local was three years in length, and no matter how generous the company was, the union always voted for a strike. The strikes would last about two months, which gave all of the immigrant workers a chance to fly home to their native countries to brag and take the whole summer off. It also gave the company time to do maintenance.
The refinery was completely out of business by 1985. Foreign competition was the reason, and the further reason was that Steelworkers Union people pulled down a mighty good buck. When I was laid off in 1983, I received free schooling under some Federal legislation that I don't remember the name of, but I learned electronics and earned a decent living - until recently, when my luck ran out. Oh well.....

[andy158]

The unions in this country have lost their steam. No longer do they have the power to persuade large corporations. The corporations are global and the unions are not. It is becoming a right to work country with or without union representation.

I am a member of a union I won't mention for personal reasons and it has become useless. I watch it take our hard earned money and gives very little in return. With all the "side" agreements between our company and union the contract is a worthless piece of paper. I have never needed the union to protect myself or my position. If you work your job like you really need it you won't need union backing either. With the state of the ecomony companies have reason to do what they need to survive reguardless of what any union contract says in the name of preserving their profits. The union contract is just an inconvenience for a company keeping its head above water.

Example: Our contract was to expire on July 1 of this year. The union and company sat down for negotiations 3 weeks before the expiration day. In 1 week they brought back a contract that was nearly voted down unanimously. Minimal wage increases that didn't even cover the rising cost of fuel and food. Major insurance increases over the 3 year period and replacing our gain sharing with a poor profit sharing program not guaranteed like the gaing sharing plan.

Now the kicker. The company initiated their "contingency" plan which included bringing non-union workers for other plants from as far as Europe to replace us in the event we didn't vote the same contract with minor changes before the expiration day. They were prepared to lock us out and had made arragnements months before to hire scab workers. They had brought in kitchen trailers, bunk house trailers, and laundry trailers (18 wheeler semi trailers) to keep the salary people locked in for the duration. It was a good ploy. The contract nearly unanimously passed the next vote. Thing is the company spent more money on their contingency plan than they would have spent giving the union workers a fair shake. But it is all written off as operating expenses at tax time. Yeah the union where I work is useless. It protects the jerk offs and does little to reward the true asset employees. It doesn't solidify your job or benefits anymore.

Unions were a great entity in the past establishing a 40 hr work week ,setting safety standards for a lot of industries and creating the true middle class. As far as a barganing tool the corporations have a "take what we offer or suffer" mentality. Our negotations were done with a "this is all we can offer, take it or leave it" stance. True barganing and negotating are a thing of the past in our neck of the woods.

[sunshinepa]

This probably will not go over well but I think in today's economy, you have to be crazy to go on strike. So many companies are taking their business overseas and this country is full of folks who can't even get a job at Wal-Mart or MacDonalds.

Now I have never been a Union member for one reason, I was the sole support for my son and could not afford to loose even a day of pay. Our union went out for 7 days when I worked, folks didn't even get strike pay. But you can bet that the executives of that union still went to Hawaii for their conference that year. I agree with andy158, they take and you never get enough in a raise to cover what you pay in dues for them to sell you out under the table.

Shark is also right, they had their day and in that time were a good thing. Now, you don't want their deal...bye bye...overseas here we come.

I hope those who are on strike have lots of savings cuz I think they are gonna be walking in the pavement for quite awhile. Let's hope business continues as usual or else many of us won't be able to get our "forum fix" LOL.

[shark66]

The main reason for me posting this thread - apart from a rare occurrence of a massive strike itself - was the fact that we're looking at a company that is extremely profitable, paid $0 in taxes, has already outsourced every job they possibly could and now persists to require *massive* givebacks from the middle-class folks whose jobs they physically can't outsource...one can't hammer down down a pole all the way from China, or install a FiOS circuit from India...it doesn't work that way...

But Verizon knows that it can play into a moment of an anti-union sentiment that a lot of Americans have developed, and likely win this battle...strapping its unions from what it had taken them half a century of negotiations to achieve.

Unions might be greedy and often counterproductive, but this is an example of corporate greed like we don't get to see that often, even when we thought we had seen it all...

Good luck to us all, including these folks on the picket lines all along the East Coast.

[andy158]

Calling a strike in any union is a loose/loose situation. Most people will go back to work for less than what they would have agreed upon before striking. The corporation has deeper pockets than the workers and can wait it out. At the point where the families living paycheck to paycheck are starved out, they will return to work just for the benefits.

[shark66]

Calling a strike in any union is a loose/loose situation. Most people will go back to work for less than what they would have agreed upon before striking. The corporation has deeper pockets than the workers and can wait it out. At the point where the families living paycheck to paycheck are starved out, they will return to work just for the benefits.

My understanding is that Verizon has put literally a hundred of expected givebacks on the table, and that the unions walked away when not a single one of them was removed...I wouldn't bet on them returning to work anytime soon...I know I'd be walking the picket line and collecting unemployment rather than having to swallow most of my benefits being taken away overnight...and for the record, I was in a similar predicament five years ago and ended up switching careers for the umpteenth time in this life...

Good luck to us all, including those 45K folks wearing red on the picket lines all over the East Coast...

[banca rotta]

Calling a strike in any union is a loose/loose situation. Most people will go back to work for less than what they would have agreed upon before striking. The corporation has deeper pockets than the workers and can wait it out. At the point where the families living paycheck to paycheck are starved out, they will return to work just for the benefits.

I'm not getting into who's right and who's wrong on this, but I will say you are correct that the workers will pretty much get slaughtered these days.

Not only does Verizon have the cash to survive this but I may have mentioned in the past that they too went to the fed window to borrow the Ben Bernank's printed money during the financial crisis.

I am sure if they need to they are more then welcome to do it again while the picketers will eventually lose their will to fight.

http://stopthecap.com/2010/12/09/verizon-got-fed-bailout-twice-1-5-billion-for-them-while-your-credit-trashed-and-slashed/

[andy158]

...I know I'd be walking the picket line and collecting unemployment rather than having to swallow most of my benefits being taken away overnight.....

Striking workers are not eligable for unemployment benefits. It is considered a voluntary work stopage. If they have a strike fund they draw from that until it is depleted. A lot less than what their permanent wages are.

God bless the people fighting for what they believe is right and best of luck in their situation. I just hope these poor people don't end up like the air traffic controllers from the Reagen era. The true start of the fall of unions in this country.

[IamOld]

IN some states you can get unemployment if you're on strike...but not most - certainly not in the "right to work" - or I should say "right to work for less" states.

This is not just a strike - this will be a defining moment, and frankly, will be chance for the Administration to show whether they stand with the working men and women of this country, or whether Obama is just another corporatist. By the way, this PURPOSEFUL destruction of organized labor started with Reagan and the first thing was the firing of the PATCO strikers in 1981 - since then, there has been an all out war or organized labor - on the working/middle class of this country.

[shark66]

Getting uglier by the moment...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903392904576512622139836878.html

Brings back the memories of Lady Thatcher breaking the coal miner's union almost thirty years ago...

Now, this one is *extremely* scary if any of it is true...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/08/17/1008089/-Meet-Verizons-Newest-Security-Force:-Blackwater

Good luck to us all.

[houston7]

can someone explain to me why there was so much hate for the teachers union in another thread?

[shark66]

If I were to venture a guess or two...

a) Teachers are employed and paid by the government in majority of cases, which translates into "out of my taxes" for most people. Verizon workers are the ones paying taxes...unlike their employer, if I may add...

b) As much as telecom is one big sorry affair in this country, its educational system is notably worse. If you complain to Verizon a dozen times about a noisy phone line, or an inconsistent DSL, it will eventually get fixed. Good luck accomplishing anything similar within the public school system.

That being said, the amount of hate and vitriol that is being thrown at Verizon's striking workers all over the web is quite stunning...or is it?

Good luck to us all.

[ByeByeCCs]

You really don't appreciate unions until you live in a right to work state. I think folks who live in areas where unions are strong take them for granted. But when you see the salaries companies offer in right to work states it is disgraceful. But unions have been demonized so much (and often with cause) I think it will be hard for them to recover. Middle class will soon be a thing of the past.

[andy158]

........ Middle class will soon be a thing of the past.

It already is. This will be the first generation (generation Xers) that will not do better than their parents as a whole.