Paving the Road to a Hungrier, Unhealthier, and Less-Educated Nation

[shark66]

And, yes, we DO get to vote on education. The legislators that we vote for are the ones who fund education, who make the rules and requirements for education including requiring teachers to have a certain education level and to be certified. The board of education for each school district is VOTED for by the voters in the school district. .

The legislators that one votes for are - in most cases - the product of the same upside-down school system to begin with, so they don't know any better themselves. And the vast majority couldn't care less to begin with since their kids end up in private schools...

I was not talking about "level" of education that a teacher is required to have. Degrees required for such practice are a joke in most cases, because - once again - they were obtained in an educational system which teaches an extremely incomplete (and I'm being very kind here) view of science and the world in general...

So whether one blames conservatives, liberals or both, the fact of the matter remains: the education - at least at the level that is obtainable by most in this country - just plain stinks, and we're not getting out of the crater that we're in until that aspect gets straightened out.

Good luck to us all.

[tobee43]

Making a blanket statement like that really isn't good. It just shows that one really doesn't know much about teachers and why they choose to teach. But I do know that NJ schools is one of the top ones in the US. So they must be doing something right. Of course, with the current ultra-conservative governor attacking education like he is, that will probably change. Don't have a problem with asking governmental workers to pay more for their benefits.

Even in states that appoint the board of education, the voters still have to vote for the person who does the appointing. And the conservatives (psuedo or otherwise) and liberals still share the blame equally.

oh, i not only know about teachers i taught myself for a while when my children were small. (only for 2 years, but that was enough for me!) also since both my son and daugther in laws, in addition to our best friends for 30 years are teachers, i do have first hand insight on their take on it.

there are OLD terrible teachers clogging the system....eating our money and funds and not teaching or caring about our children. the system needs to retire these people that do not care anymore and replace them with younger teachers that COST less and TEACH more and WANT to be there.

i also blame both...so i actually, in reality, do agree with you. although, i can understand you may not see it that way.

[JackBondLove]

I think the USA is about to take a turn toward Marxism/Socialism, in which the dispossessed Middle Class will demand that the wealthy pay confiscatory taxes to help fund a massive jobs program to put everyone back to work.

[tobee43]

I think the USA is about to take a turn toward Marxism/Socialism, in which the dispossessed Middle Class will demand that the wealthy pay confiscatory taxes to help fund a massive jobs program to put everyone back to work.

i actually couldn't....and i'm choking, as i'm writing, but i couldn't agree more.

[IamOld]

I think the USA is about to take a turn toward Marxism/Socialism, in which the dispossessed Middle Class will demand that the wealthy pay confiscatory taxes to help fund a massive jobs program to put everyone back to work.

Well Jackbond, I'd be happy with Germany's tax system - or for that matter what that "commie pinko hippie" (sarcasm) Eisenhower had during his presidency - 91% fed income tax on incomes above (in today's dollars) $3 million. My heart does not bleed.

[tobee43]

Well Jackbond, I'd be happy with Germany's tax system - or for that matter what that "commie pinko hippie" (sarcasm) Eisenhower had during his presidency - 91% fed income tax on incomes above (in today's dollars) $3 million. My heart does not bleed.

well really i could never wear pink...LOL!!! however, i could go with the german tax system. fat chance...ever. or at least not in our life times.

[IamOld]

well really i could never wear pink...LOL!!! however, i could go with the german tax system. fat chance...ever. or at least not in our life times.

Tobee, unfortunately I think you're right...unless there is such a huge crisis so that an "FDR" could do things...of course the SAME crisis that gave us - and the world - FDR and Co., also gave the world Hitler...

[tobee43]

oh my....i was thinking exactly on the same lines as hitler...exactly, but you said the words.

[espo1357]

oh, i not only know about teachers i taught myself for a while when my children were small. (only for 2 years, but that was enough for me!) also since both my son and daugther in laws, in addition to our best friends for 30 years are teachers, i do have first hand insight on their take on it.

there are OLD terrible teachers clogging the system....eating our money and funds and not teaching or caring about our children. the system needs to retire these people that do not care anymore and replace them with younger teachers that COST less and TEACH more and WANT to be there.

i also blame both...so i actually, in reality, do agree with you. although, i can understand you may not see it that way.

Looked up the salary of my gym teacher, that has been at the school for 25 years, and he is at 100k/year.

Its disgusting.

The guy was a smart dude and paid his dues, but 100k/year is silly, for what he actually brings to the table.

[tobee43]

Looked up the salary of my gym teacher, that has been at the school for 25 years, and he is at 100k/year.

Its disgusting.

The guy was a smart dude and paid his dues, but 100k/year is silly, for what he actually brings to the table.

thank you for helping me make my point! i got some people i know that HATE their teaching job for the past 35 years but have no problem collecting the 120k, they are in it solely for the money; solely; ....must be nice, i wouldn't know!

[helpmeout]

Looked up the salary of my gym teacher, that has been at the school for 25 years, and he is at 100k/year.

Its disgusting.

The guy was a smart dude and paid his dues, but 100k/year is silly, for what he actually brings to the table.

And there is why education is having a problem. People just don't appreciate teachers or value them. So people aren't choosing to go into teaching. It's a thankless job that people look down on and think of as being overpaid. Not something I would want to deal with. If I had the gift of actually being able to teach kids, that is. Not everyone can explain issues to a child in a way they can understand it. Not only that, teachers are required to take continuing education credits. In fact, if you were to let a teacher order what they actually needed and would work, money would be saved. Why? Because the school administration insists on providing what they think the teachers need. And as one of my son's teachers said: The administration really doesn't know what works with teaching a child and what doesn't.

By the time the administration catches on and gets what works, they have already wasted money. And they do this every year. The teachers AND what they are paid isn't the problem. The problem is politicians who pass laws like NCLB and make it even harder for a teacher to actually teach. My then 16 year old cousin (who is attending an Ivy League college on a full scholarship and was valedictorian in high school) said that on the years that they had to do the testing for NCLB, they learned absolutely nothing because the teachers just concentrated on getting the kids to pass the test.

[helpmeout]

thank you for helping me make my point! i got some people i know that HATE their teaching job for the past 35 years but have no problem collecting the 120k, they are in it solely for the money; solely; ....must be nice, i wouldn't know!

I would imagine that if you were surrounded by people who accused you of being underworked and overpaid on top of having to deal with parents who thinks their kid can do no wrong, you would end up hating your job, as well. Teaching is a thankless job.

[tobee43]

I would imagine that if you were surrounded by people who accused you of being underworked and overpaid on top of having to deal with parents who thinks their kid can do no wrong, you would end up hating your job, as well. Teaching is a thankless job.

that is true in MANY cases helpme. however, i need to tell you the story of one of my BEST friends. he taught in jersey city. he was a math teacher. his first class began at 10 am. his next two classes were after lunch and that was it. he would call me during his long lunch break and talk about the little rats he had to teach ALL day and how he couldn't wait to leave???? he also coached tennis??? his total income was well over 120k....and he was home by 2 pm daily. he complained daily about how hard he had it.

you must excuse my attitude, as one of us was with the nj state police and would be given undercover assignments which at times were days of days not coming home. our first 5 years employed by the state police we were $200 above the property line to collect food stamps. all while having to go into some of the worse areas to deal with drugs, murder, the most terrible of things. the hours were relentless. of course as years and years and YEARS went by, we finally caught up ...but not fully with the teachers salaries...or did they. most teachers were making an average of 20k more than the police on the street. there is some disparity in that, i think. i'm not trying to be or sound bitter, but when the i was begging the electric company not to turn off our electric during those first years...and the people living behind us were putting in a tennis court...OH...they were teachers. we didn't want the tennis court, we wanted lights.

we became best friends with the tennis court teachers...for 30 plus years. they hated there jobs. hated the kids. between the two of them they made over 250K. and, once again hated their jobs and most dinners we had together would be full of complaints of the children and how they are so bored and hate their jobs and they are so under paid. (they both worked from 8-2 daily.

now...let's look at my daughter and son in law both teach little ones...they can't WAIT to get to work. they LOVE their kids and notice if even one is not at the top of his or her game. will make certain all the children are working to their potential and my daughter in law if you ever DARE ask about her class she will go right down the line of each and every child and give you an exact description down to what makes each and everyone of those kids to smile and where they need help and where they are so advanced that it blows her mind. how she loves them and can't wait until tomorrow comes. she makes about 30k a year and is struggling...time for one of the above to go and make room for the ones that really CARE...that's all i'm saying. and, if you have one of the above finally retire, they can hire THREE more of these teachers itching to do there best for our kids.

i need to tell you a cute story about a GOOD teacher. my son in law had the cutest little chinese girl in her class (it was kindergarten that year i think), anyway...she would always BITE him!!! so, of course he sends home a note with the cute little one asking that her parents call him. he gets no response so he decides to call. when he did, he reached the mother who said she didn't speak english and hung up on him. (he has a duel masters in special ed and is making 28k...no pension, pays for his benefits on and on...which brings him to making approx 22k take home pay, which if my daughter wasn't working they were be eligible for welfare).

(one again...get rid of those two making the 250k, whom are STILL teaching, and have them retire and you can get how many GREAT new teachers, that WANT to be there!)

anyway...on with my long story....wouldn't you know the town's BEST chinese food was owned by this family and just happenstanced to be located right around the corner of my daughter and son in laws house. so what does he do...he places an order for chinese food which usually was delivered, but he told them...he'll pick it up. he gets there and the mom is taking care of the cashiering. he then speaks with her about the order...LOL..in broken english, yet very clear...and then he says..."aren't you so and so's mom"...well she was faced with no choice but to deal with her daughter's biting problem. and while he was at it he asked if the mom would be so kind as to come to the class and speak about the chinese new year tradition as chinese new year was coming up. now, i think THAT's a good teacher!!! she became an very active parent with the class that year.

so, don't get me wrong, these young teachers don't get tenured, don't get benefits because the stagnate teachers are eating up and using the budgets funds to pay for their tennis courts. i have a problem with that.

[espo1357]

And there is why education is having a problem. People just don't appreciate teachers or value them. So people aren't choosing to go into teaching. It's a thankless job that people look down on and think of as being overpaid. Not something I would want to deal with. If I had the gift of actually being able to teach kids, that is. Not everyone can explain issues to a child in a way they can understand it. Not only that, teachers are required to take continuing education credits. In fact, if you were to let a teacher order what they actually needed and would work, money would be saved. Why? Because the school administration insists on providing what they think the teachers need. And as one of my son's teachers said: The administration really doesn't know what works with teaching a child and what doesn't.

By the time the administration catches on and gets what works, they have already wasted money. And they do this every year. The teachers AND what they are paid isn't the problem. The problem is politicians who pass laws like NCLB and make it even harder for a teacher to actually teach. My then 16 year old cousin (who is attending an Ivy League college on a full scholarship and was valedictorian in high school) said that on the years that they had to do the testing for NCLB, they learned absolutely nothing because the teachers just concentrated on getting the kids to pass the test.

Maybe for important subjects, teachers are very important. But, PE aka gym teacher should not be making over 100k a year.

[helpmeout]

Maybe for important subjects, teachers are very important. But, PE aka gym teacher should not be making over 100k a year.

And people wonder why Americans have gotten fatter. Well, there's your answer.