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    Vent about our Landlord

    Well she pulled a sneaky one on us.

    Everyone knows about our sewer/septic line back-ups and how the Landlord thinks it's us. Landlord even wanted us to pay the bill for the latest cleaning and we said NO.

    Well, last Wednesday, we got a Certified Mail letter. From the Landlord of course. While I wasn't home, of course. So one of our daughters signed for it, took it upstairs and put it on our bed, and she left to spend the night with a friend. No note about the letter or anything.

    Later that night, whilst getting ready to go to bed, I found the unopened envelope laying on the bed. I brought the letter downstairs and asked Hubby if he knew anything about it. Nope. He hadn't seen it either.

    It was a letter from the Landlord demanding payment for the latest sewer line cleaning bill.

    She detailed her version of the events. Including saying her son told us when he cleaned out the line the 2nd time if there were any future blockages, we'd have to pay the bill. Which was not true. He never said any such thing. I could tell he thought it was our fault by the way he acted. And he did say over and over, that we needed to be careful about what we flush down the toilets and put in the lines. But he never said we'd have to pay to fix it if the line plugged up again.

    Anyway, she gave us 5 days from date of receipt of the letter to pay. She'd better receive a check for payment postmarked within 5 days of receipt of her letter for $250 or other legal action would be taken. We said screw her. We weren't going to pay. Showed the letter to the BK attny. He'd file BK against her for it and that would be it.

    But something about that letter nagged at me. I don't know why, but I thought there must be something more to it than what was written in the words. I found a listing for a Landlord Tenant Dispute Mediation office for our County that's local and called there. They don't do LT Mediation. But the gal gave me another phone number to call. That office does Rental Property Building Codes regulation. Not what I needed, but that gal gave me another number to call. The office had some funky name. The lady on the phone was real nice and very helpful. Turns out they were Legal Aid.

    The gal at Legal Aid said the Landlord could sue us in Small Claims court but didn't know if she could evict us. We'd need to discuss that with an attny. She said to speak to a Landlord Tenant Law attny specifically to get answers to my questions. So I called one I found and got to speak to an attny directly. The LT attny said the Landlord could run up quite a bill in Small Claims Court against us. The limit is $6K here and he could see that she could run up a bill rather easily. Attny's fees. Damages that she'd invent. etc.

    And, the attny said, he'd have to look at our lease to be sure, but he'd imagine if we didn't pay up, she could evict us as well. I asked how. He said she'd show up with her bills and a copy of the letter in tow. Be granted an appointment for an eviction hearing. That would be about 10 days later. She'd show up again there with her bills, her letter, and have her son tell the Court what was said in the letter was true, and the Sheriff would issue and eviction notice. We'd have to move in 10 days.

    So I cranked out a letter of counter attack addressing each and everyone of her points. Said her son's statement was a BALD FACED LIE. Named the attny I'd consulted so she knew we would get legal representation. And I told her we were paying under duress and protest.

    Ran to the Bank and got a Cashier's Check for payment. Ran to the Post Office and sent it out Priority with signature required.

    The Landlord was counting on us being bull headed and not looking into things so she could evict us.

    Wonder what's coming next for us from our Landlord??!!
    Filed Ch 7 - 09/06
    Discharged - 12/2006
    Officially Declared No Asset - 03/2007
    Closed - 04/2007

    I am not an attorney. My comments are based on personal experience and research. Always consult an attorney in your area to address concerns related to your particular situation.

    Another good thing about being poor is that when you are seventy your children will not have declared you legally insane in order to gain control of your estate. - Woody Allen...

    #2
    Sorry about that sinking. My family has been through it too I know that. Slumlords are the scum of the earth.

    Comment


      #3
      Are you saying you "paid her"???

      If you did, she will start hitting you up everytime something in the neighborhood breaks!!!

      I'm sure paying her was the worse of the two evils - but watch carefully.... cause now she knows you'll pay when confronted about anything.

      Landlords are supposed to maintain their property. And property lines go to the city sewer are her problem, not yours.

      If the lines involved were inside the apartment - then she might have grounds, but outside leading to the street ARE HERS. Especially if other tenants are attached to the same lines.

      I don't remember the exact problem but some of it.....

      Watch her were closely...... she'll be back for more money.... to get something else fixed...

      Minny
      Minny

      "It's amazing the paths that our feet sometimes follow in life".

      My suggestions are from "personal experience" and research only. Do not consider this as legal advice. Each bankruptcy case is different.

      Comment


        #4
        The Landlord/Tenant Law attny I spoke to said she had the advantage of time on her side this time.

        She gave us very short notice in the letter and I didn't get around to talking to him until the day the payment was due to be postmarked by. He said if he'd had a week instead of minutes, he coulda fired off a nasty sounding letter back to her to hopefully make her back down.

        As it was, he said she could easily run a Small Claims Court case up to the full $6K against us. If she used an attny to represent her, had her son appear as a witness on her behalf, possibly the handyman and sewer line cleaning people as well. Then she could also claim invented damages we've done to the house.

        But he seriously thought her hidden goal was to get us evicted. Which she could easily do if we didn't pay. Indiana is very Landlord friendly with next to no protections for tenants. So if we didn't pay up, she could go crying to the Court with her receipts and her witnesses, get an eviction notice hearing, and then an eviction notice issued. From start to finish, the whole thing would be done in about 20 days. The attny asked if we had any arrears on our rent. Nope. He said he guessed her objective then was to get us out by the end of the month.

        Don't worry, Minny. We intend to cover ourselves. We're moving early anyway. We're not gonna stay to the end of our lease that comes due Aug 1. So we're gonna BK against her anyway. LOL We'll just have to get the attny to word the filing against her to include any damages she presumes were incurred during our stay in the house.

        Does BK Court allow for open ended claims?? Or do we have to specify a dollar amount??
        Filed Ch 7 - 09/06
        Discharged - 12/2006
        Officially Declared No Asset - 03/2007
        Closed - 04/2007

        I am not an attorney. My comments are based on personal experience and research. Always consult an attorney in your area to address concerns related to your particular situation.

        Another good thing about being poor is that when you are seventy your children will not have declared you legally insane in order to gain control of your estate. - Woody Allen...

        Comment


          #5
          Do you rent a single family home or a multi-family home? If it's a single family home and the blockage is in the lines from your house, then what could be causing it if you're only flushing TP? If it's a multi-family home, then I would assume either all tenants are paying an equal share or they might be able to find out who the culprit is.

          Comment


            #6
            It's a 50+ year old, single family house, Jenny. That's been added onto so many times it's a very odd floor plan.

            There's problems with the electical. The plumbing,.......... Other places than the sewer/septic lines. The windows. It's just old, worn out, and not well maintained.

            They did some rehab on the inside between us and the people that lived here before. New kitchen cabinets, and some appliances. The in counter cooktop FRY's everything. We have one burner that works properly. All the rest will boil water on low in no time at all. The pipes to sink froze several times this winter. Took forever to thaw them out. Yesterday morning, the coffee pot kicking on blew the circuit and we didn't have coffee when we got up. The dishwasher has problems. The freezer of the side by side has a layer of ice in the bottom of it. Where the water is coming from, we don't know.

            But of course, we're to blame for the sewer/septic line problems.

            We've owned 3 houses, all on septics. Over 20 years of home ownership total. And never once did we have a septic problem. Until we moved here.
            Filed Ch 7 - 09/06
            Discharged - 12/2006
            Officially Declared No Asset - 03/2007
            Closed - 04/2007

            I am not an attorney. My comments are based on personal experience and research. Always consult an attorney in your area to address concerns related to your particular situation.

            Another good thing about being poor is that when you are seventy your children will not have declared you legally insane in order to gain control of your estate. - Woody Allen...

            Comment


              #7
              Sinking,

              I am sorry you are having to go through all of this. Life totally sucks sometimes! Personally, I am sick of houses, and after reading your story, I do not even want a rental. Still thinking about living in an RV. Just for kicks took the kids to look at some here in Indy today. They thought it was totally cool and fun (they are still young). I swear I will do this one day. I am sick of all this housing crap. I would like something cheap to own and move around. I paid my da*m realtor 20k to sell that piece of crap in Atlanta that fell down. Of course, I was just happy to get rid of it. But still, I could use that cash now. Anyway, hope things work out for you!

              Comment


                #8
                OH YES,
                Since you are moving early, INCLUDE HER in your BK.... and any debts you might incurr between now and the time you move..... just mark dollar amount.....UNKNOWN....

                Make sure your attorney follows up on this for sure.......
                And if you have to break the lease, so be it.... her loss... and she won't be ble to collect it......LOL.

                Keep us posted.....
                Minny

                "It's amazing the paths that our feet sometimes follow in life".

                My suggestions are from "personal experience" and research only. Do not consider this as legal advice. Each bankruptcy case is different.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Minnymouth
                  OH YES,
                  Since you are moving early, INCLUDE HER in your BK.... and any debts you might incurr between now and the time you move..... just mark dollar amount.....UNKNOWN....

                  Make sure your attorney follows up on this for sure.......
                  And if you have to break the lease, so be it.... her loss... and she won't be ble to collect it......LOL.

                  Keep us posted.....
                  I am so glad you said the "dollar amount UNKNOWN" Minny.

                  After chatting with that Landlord Tenant Law attny, I'm afraid of what she's gonna say we did in the way of damages while living here. What she could "invent" as damage that we did.

                  Of course we know that leaving early, we're gonna forfeit our security deposit as well. I had hoped the Trustee would take that, but the attny said the Trustee never does. Pooh!

                  Hubby and I were chatting about that. Damages she could claim. He always believes the best in people so he didn't see what she could pin on us. He still doesn't believe the letter demanding payment was all orchestrated hoping we wouldn't pay so she could get an eviction order. I said, "Dear, you remember all the doors that had holes knocked in them before we ever moved in?? She can say we did that. Any scratch in the woodwork, chip in the tile, anything that was here before we moved in, she can claim as damage that we did." Then he got it. He still doesn't believe she'd do it. But he got it.

                  Debt,..............

                  I'm thinking the same thing too. I've even suggested it to Hubby. Instead of buying a house, next time let's just get an RV. You get the same tax deductions for an RV as you do for a house. Why not?? There are RV parks about everywhere. We could live in one of those so we can work. Then unhook and take off for parts unknown when we wanna travel on vacation.

                  Sounds like a plan to me!!
                  Filed Ch 7 - 09/06
                  Discharged - 12/2006
                  Officially Declared No Asset - 03/2007
                  Closed - 04/2007

                  I am not an attorney. My comments are based on personal experience and research. Always consult an attorney in your area to address concerns related to your particular situation.

                  Another good thing about being poor is that when you are seventy your children will not have declared you legally insane in order to gain control of your estate. - Woody Allen...

                  Comment


                    #10
                    SOUNDS GOOD TO ME - NOT SURE THAT YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT IDEA.................. travel sounds good..........
                    Minny

                    "It's amazing the paths that our feet sometimes follow in life".

                    My suggestions are from "personal experience" and research only. Do not consider this as legal advice. Each bankruptcy case is different.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      There is one thing rattling around in the back of my mind about all this.

                      I think this was an orchestrated attempt to evict us. We got lucky and dodged the bullet.

                      The day we got the letter in the mail, I called the Leasing Agent to ask her about our Landlord. Had she said anything to the Leasing Agent prior to sending the note to us. Nope. Only thing our Landlord did was call and update her contact info with the Leasing Agent. Landlord has moved to her Lake House permanently. I didn't think anything about it at the time, but the thought popped up in my head a couple days later.

                      When you're moving you've got lots of details to attend to. This property is under lease until the end of July. The Landlord would have plenty of time to update the Leasing Agent at a later time. Plus, the Leasing Agent handles rentals for 2 of the Landlord's sons. Either son could tell the Leasing Agent the updated info. Why bother to call the Leasing Agent when you've got tons of other stuff to do??!! Unless you're planning for the property to be vacated and available for rent sooner than the first of August.

                      I have to wonder what their next plan is. I have a feeling that even tho we've dodged one bullet, they'll think of something else.

                      Our attny was right. The longer we stay here, the greater our risk is.
                      Filed Ch 7 - 09/06
                      Discharged - 12/2006
                      Officially Declared No Asset - 03/2007
                      Closed - 04/2007

                      I am not an attorney. My comments are based on personal experience and research. Always consult an attorney in your area to address concerns related to your particular situation.

                      Another good thing about being poor is that when you are seventy your children will not have declared you legally insane in order to gain control of your estate. - Woody Allen...

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by SinkingFast
                        Well she pulled a sneaky one on us.

                        Everyone knows about our sewer/septic line back-ups and how the Landlord thinks it's us. Landlord even wanted us to pay the bill for the latest cleaning and we said NO.

                        Well, last Wednesday, we got a Certified Mail letter. From the Landlord of course. While I wasn't home, of course. So one of our daughters signed for it, took it upstairs and put it on our bed, and she left to spend the night with a friend. No note about the letter or anything.

                        Later that night, whilst getting ready to go to bed, I found the unopened envelope laying on the bed. I brought the letter downstairs and asked Hubby if he knew anything about it. Nope. He hadn't seen it either.

                        It was a letter from the Landlord demanding payment for the latest sewer line cleaning bill.

                        She detailed her version of the events. Including saying her son told us when he cleaned out the line the 2nd time if there were any future blockages, we'd have to pay the bill. Which was not true. He never said any such thing. I could tell he thought it was our fault by the way he acted. And he did say over and over, that we needed to be careful about what we flush down the toilets and put in the lines. But he never said we'd have to pay to fix it if the line plugged up again.

                        Anyway, she gave us 5 days from date of receipt of the letter to pay. She'd better receive a check for payment postmarked within 5 days of receipt of her letter for $250 or other legal action would be taken. We said screw her. We weren't going to pay. Showed the letter to the BK attny. He'd file BK against her for it and that would be it.

                        But something about that letter nagged at me. I don't know why, but I thought there must be something more to it than what was written in the words. I found a listing for a Landlord Tenant Dispute Mediation office for our County that's local and called there. They don't do LT Mediation. But the gal gave me another phone number to call. That office does Rental Property Building Codes regulation. Not what I needed, but that gal gave me another number to call. The office had some funky name. The lady on the phone was real nice and very helpful. Turns out they were Legal Aid.

                        The gal at Legal Aid said the Landlord could sue us in Small Claims court but didn't know if she could evict us. We'd need to discuss that with an attny. She said to speak to a Landlord Tenant Law attny specifically to get answers to my questions. So I called one I found and got to speak to an attny directly. The LT attny said the Landlord could run up quite a bill in Small Claims Court against us. The limit is $6K here and he could see that she could run up a bill rather easily. Attny's fees. Damages that she'd invent. etc.

                        And, the attny said, he'd have to look at our lease to be sure, but he'd imagine if we didn't pay up, she could evict us as well. I asked how. He said she'd show up with her bills and a copy of the letter in tow. Be granted an appointment for an eviction hearing. That would be about 10 days later. She'd show up again there with her bills, her letter, and have her son tell the Court what was said in the letter was true, and the Sheriff would issue and eviction notice. We'd have to move in 10 days.

                        So I cranked out a letter of counter attack addressing each and everyone of her points. Said her son's statement was a BALD FACED LIE. Named the attny I'd consulted so she knew we would get legal representation. And I told her we were paying under duress and protest.

                        Ran to the Bank and got a Cashier's Check for payment. Ran to the Post Office and sent it out Priority with signature required.

                        The Landlord was counting on us being bull headed and not looking into things so she could evict us.

                        Wonder what's coming next for us from our Landlord??!!


                        Ahh, one of my two fields of expertise, Property Management. We have a few properties. You did the right thing, pick your battles, this one you would have lost. I have a couple of questions, I would be curious to know??
                        Maybe I missed this, are we talking single family or multi, if multi Minny has a good point. Whats your deposit? What does your lease say in regards to repairs?? Like the atty said, the lease is an important part of this solution.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by SinkingFast
                          The Landlord/Tenant Law attny I spoke to said she had the advantage of time on her side this time.

                          She gave us very short notice in the letter and I didn't get around to talking to him until the day the payment was due to be postmarked by. He said if he'd had a week instead of minutes, he coulda fired off a nasty sounding letter back to her to hopefully make her back down.

                          As it was, he said she could easily run a Small Claims Court case up to the full $6K against us. If she used an attny to represent her, had her son appear as a witness on her behalf, possibly the handyman and sewer line cleaning people as well. Then she could also claim invented damages we've done to the house.

                          But he seriously thought her hidden goal was to get us evicted. Which she could easily do if we didn't pay. Indiana is very Landlord friendly with next to no protections for tenants. So if we didn't pay up, she could go crying to the Court with her receipts and her witnesses, get an eviction notice hearing, and then an eviction notice issued. From start to finish, the whole thing would be done in about 20 days. The attny asked if we had any arrears on our rent. Nope. He said he guessed her objective then was to get us out by the end of the month.

                          Don't worry, Minny. We intend to cover ourselves. We're moving early anyway. We're not gonna stay to the end of our lease that comes due Aug 1. So we're gonna BK against her anyway. LOL We'll just have to get the attny to word the filing against her to include any damages she presumes were incurred during our stay in the house.

                          Does BK Court allow for open ended claims?? Or do we have to specify a dollar amount??
                          Not the best choices being made hear here??? You need to learn how to play the game!!!!

                          Fine bolt out early, Landlords like myself belong to Property Associations, ours has a forceable detainer and skip list. We all have it and any nice property will use it. If you bolt and bk on her, I wonder how that would work. First you would bk for the rent not paid, but what would happen if she claimed damages and filed in small claims after your filing date???? My guess is the case would continue and a judgemnet would hit your credit report. We have really nice clean properties, we pull a bureau on EVERYONE. In fact let me boast that I ask people if they have looked at others, I want them to know value when they see it. We frequently rent our units to the first person that comes to look at it. If you want a nice place they are going to too, rundown places take anyone. I think your a quality lady, my guess is you want and rightfully deserve a nice home.
                          I have alot more to say.....like when you move from her place what are you going to tell the next person?? Plus this address will show up on the bureau??.....but I am going to stop, let me know if I should continue, I really am pretty, cross that out, awesome at this subject, hope you take me up on it.
                          Last edited by scammer; 04-05-2006, 11:08 AM.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by SinkingFast
                            It's a 50+ year old, single family house, Jenny. That's been added onto so many times it's a very odd floor plan.

                            There's problems with the electical. The plumbing,.......... Other places than the sewer/septic lines. The windows. It's just old, worn out, and not well maintained.

                            They did some rehab on the inside between us and the people that lived here before. New kitchen cabinets, and some appliances. The in counter cooktop FRY's everything. We have one burner that works properly. All the rest will boil water on low in no time at all. The pipes to sink froze several times this winter. Took forever to thaw them out. Yesterday morning, the coffee pot kicking on blew the circuit and we didn't have coffee when we got up. The dishwasher has problems. The freezer of the side by side has a layer of ice in the bottom of it. Where the water is coming from, we don't know.

                            But of course, we're to blame for the sewer/septic line problems.

                            We've owned 3 houses, all on septics. Over 20 years of home ownership total. And never once did we have a septic problem. Until we moved here.
                            oops silly me, single family there it is. Problems!!! Bullshit you deserve better, You could have so much fun making them jump through hoops fixing.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by SinkingFast
                              I am so glad you said the "dollar amount UNKNOWN" Minny.

                              After chatting with that Landlord Tenant Law attny, I'm afraid of what she's gonna say we did in the way of damages while living here. What she could "invent" as damage that we did.

                              Of course we know that leaving early, we're gonna forfeit our security deposit as well. I had hoped the Trustee would take that, but the attny said the Trustee never does. Pooh!

                              Hubby and I were chatting about that. Damages she could claim. He always believes the best in people so he didn't see what she could pin on us. He still doesn't believe the letter demanding payment was all orchestrated hoping we wouldn't pay so she could get an eviction order. I said, "Dear, you remember all the doors that had holes knocked in them before we ever moved in?? She can say we did that. Any scratch in the woodwork, chip in the tile, anything that was here before we moved in, she can claim as damage that we did." Then he got it. He still doesn't believe she'd do it. But he got it.

                              Debt,..............

                              I'm thinking the same thing too. I've even suggested it to Hubby. Instead of buying a house, next time let's just get an RV. You get the same tax deductions for an RV as you do for a house. Why not?? There are RV parks about everywhere. We could live in one of those so we can work. Then unhook and take off for parts unknown when we wanna travel on vacation.

                              Sounds like a plan to me!!

                              check in sheet for your protection and lanlords, keeps everyone honest, and always ask for a walkthrough upon vacating

                              Comment

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