60 Minutes tonight 4/3 is about foreclosure fraud.

[espo1357]

In my workplace I have noticed that only younger applicants have been given positions in sales and others, so I do wonder if this bubble will pop in some way. I work for the biggest food company in the world and the goals one has to make to keep a job adds pressure to question the ethics around it. They want ethical people but don't add that standard to the company. Off the soap box.
It seems to me that they hire those who have no real expectations of the job so they (the company) can manipulate at will as those in these positions don't know any better. Now in management positions they seem to also be looking for the rookies as they can pay them far less to start. I can tell you that 80% of our hourly work force make as much money as some of our managers do and they have not raised the top pay for my position for 6 years now. What the hell is the formula?

Of course, these corporations just want people that they can control, that is why the young kids that don't know shit about life or how to be "treated" properly, are perfect fits...because they are easy to control.

Back to 60 minutes, what a total joke. Its a home, that's it. If you can't afford it, then just rent. Its not complicated.

One of my favorite sayings in life is this: "life is not complicated, but people like to complicate the shit out of it".

[tobee43]

As much as I am pro-debtor and what not...

At the end of the day, the people that were foreclosed upon were not paying their mortgage, the inevitable consequence is foreclosure. So, whether John bank or Jill bank actually foreclosed is of little difference in the big picture. The problem with HAMP, and all these programs is that it gave false hope to people. And instead of the housing crisis ending in 2009-2010, it will linger on for another 2-3 years. They either should have allowed "forced" modification in BK 13, or just ripped off the bandage and allowed a mass foreclosure and get it over with all at once.

hhm hit the nail on the head with the description of HAMP. this program was designed for whom exactly???? if someone could pay their mortgage what good with a few month deferment and the deferred amount tacked on to the end of your loan, possibly help. (i do understand there are other HAMP offer scenario's, but that one was one of the old favorites of the program).

had it worked out for us, at the time we applied, it would have been less than a year and we would have found ourselves both without jobs, and no matter what the amount had been modified to, we still would have not been able to afford it.

i do understand there are some, still actively working, and may have excellent financial opportunities for increased salary and position, we, just don't happen to be in the position. our, working life hay day's had come to an abrupt close. personally, i think there are more people in our situation that moving up the ladder in their jobs today.

[catleg]

I haven't taken the time to watch the 60 minutes piece yet.
But one important point that needs to be made concerning chain of title.
What happens if you pay off your mortgage to an entity who is not legally entitled to collect and thus give you a discharge of mortgage?
At some point everyone is at risk of at least a clouded title and at worst defending against eviction/foreclosure from these corrupt practices.
It's not just folks who have stopped paying.
I'm not sure if 60 minutes or many people grasp that concept.

[IamOld]

But guys, I would prefer nationalization of banks (like in post war WESTERN Europe) getting the banksters out of Dodge so to speak, to the current billionaires running the show. OR - can someone please bring FDR back and his Home Owners Loan Corp? We desperately need a Roosevelt...my humble two cents worth.

[discouraged]

Personally I am glad I was forced into foreclosure due to being laid off (and 55 at the time) 2 years ago. The bank would not work with me and now I am so glad. When I think of the money I have put into this house, as opposed to when I rented, yikes! I probably would have had all my bills paid off and a much healthier savings if I hadn't bought this money pit.

Sure hope the 60 minutes piece does not hold up the foreclosure, although I've still got 6 months I think before they do foreclose.

And I agree with HHM, although I am looking forward to not paying so I can save some money - most of what I had saved, once I decided on bk and quit paying things, went for a lawyer. Now I have time to seriously save and this also allows me to look for part time or lower wage jobs as when I do rent I can get into senior housing. If I find a job that is.

[IamOld]

Neither will anyone else except for all of the rich that we all keep supporting.

Well said!!!!

[banca rotta]

As much as I am pro-debtor and what not...

At the end of the day, the people that were foreclosed upon were not paying their mortgage, the inevitable consequence is foreclosure. So, whether John bank or Jill bank actually foreclosed is of little difference in the big picture. The problem with HAMP, and all these programs is that it gave false hope to people. And instead of the housing crisis ending in 2009-2010, it will linger on for another 2-3 years. They either should have allowed "forced" modification in BK 13, or just ripped off the bandage and allowed a mass foreclosure and get it over with all at once.

I agree with this too. I was just wondering how a banker's atty can go into court with a forged document and expect to foreclose on someone.

It sounds like these forged docs are in the hundreds of thousands if not more.

My best guess is the fed reserve bank once again will likely provide the banksters with the money to buy back all of the mortgages that were securitized and sold off to investors, pensions, etc.

The end game will be they will proceed with the foreclosures, the folks will then be living in tents and the banks will sit on millions of empty homes that no one can afford to buy. No biggie since the fed will continue to provide them with more liquidity.

Sheila Bair the FDIC chair person on 60 minutes suggested the banksters put a pool together to do just that and the Fed will provide the funds which she won't mention.

[tobee43]

catleg
What happens if you pay off your mortgage to an entity who is not legally entitled to collect and thus give you a discharge of mortgage?

i watched it, but it didn't really cover any of that type of detailed info...especially in light of the fact many right now haven't or are not paying their mortgages in full.

the other point that brings up is even selling the property with "clear" title?? if, one pays off or even pays anything toward a fraudulent mortgage. i think, however, most of these situation are not so much fraudulent type mortgages as much as the major banks hiring robo signers and forging signatures the instrumental documents allowing the banks to move forward with the foreclosures.

[Toby629]

In my workplace I have noticed that only younger applicants have been given positions in sales and others, so I do wonder if this bubble will pop in some way. I work for the biggest food company in the world and the goals one has to make to keep a job adds pressure to question the ethics around it. They want ethical people but don't add that standard to the company. Off the soap box.
It seems to me that they hire those who have no real expectations of the job so they (the company) can manipulate at will as those in these positions don't know any better. Now in management positions they seem to also be looking for the rookies as they can pay them far less to start. I can tell you that 80% of our hourly work force make as much money as some of our managers do and they have not raised the top pay for my position for 6 years now. What the hell is the formula?

Yes, you are correct in many of your points here. If you have been with a company for many years and are at top pay, you are at high risk of being on the chopping block, as far as your continued employment with your company. They must be using the same formula, because we also know many, many, people who, like DH, got the boot after being with their employer for many years. And in their place younger people were hired to replace them at much lower pay. These people obviously by now middle aged, are finding themselves trying to compete for jobs with younger people, and we hear from them they are not being hired. They never thought they would be in this position, to young to retire, but considered too old to hire. So many end up underemployed and take whatever they can get. Pathetic that is has come to this!

[HHM]

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to apologize for the bank foreclosure debacle, it is really bad that it came down to forging documents and fraud. The housing crisis was caused by tightening up of money and rapid increased unemployment, not the other way round. But given that unemployment is only ticking downward, not falling, it will be years before housing stabilizes, but prices are not going back to 2005 levels in many many many years. Ultimately, jobs are the key, you need people with money that can/want to buy a home.

[tobee43]

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to apologize for the bank foreclosure debacle, it is really bad that it came down to forging documents and fraud. The housing crisis was caused by tightening up of money and rapid increased unemployment, not the other way round. But given that unemployment is only ticking downward, not falling, it will be years before housing stabilizes, but prices are not going back to 2005 levels in many many many years. Ultimately, jobs are the key, you need people with money that can/want to buy a home.

really, there was no excuse for such behavior by the banks, you are correct...and if one of us pulled such a scheme, we'd be in jail.

i agree, i don't even think we will see values upturn for the next 10 years and most likely we personally, we most likely never see the "high" values return in our lifetime.

your point hhm about the job creation is the basic key to unlock this heavy oak door....and..some good news...mc Donald's is hiring 150k people...and some managers make 50k annually...not bad. i guess more are eating out?

[jjim120]

HHM, The banks and the government are really trying hard to get people to believe that it's all the fault of the borrower, and some are buying into it. In our case, a business foreclosure occurred, not because we were in arrears, but because the bank guaranteed a construction loan, then at the 50% point of the project, suddenly slowed, then stopped funding the loan, leaving the developer, the contractors, the suppliers and the work force in limbo. The bank itself defaulted on its own contract terms, but used its political and legal clout to destroy the project and everyone connected with it. They even refused to sell the construction note to three other investment companies that wanted to buy the project and continue to build it! At last count more than 5 businesses have been destroyed, 8 individuals have filed bankruptcy, nearly 150 people have lost their jobs, many of whom may have to default on their home mortgages. This is not an isolated instance, as similar events were happening all over the country.

To get a better idea of why people were lured into the home loans that are now in default, read "The Monster" by Michael W. Hudson. That book details the corruption and sleaze in the mortgage industry, and shows how little effect even the good guys have on the industry. It will make you sick.