The American Dream no longer exists.

[robivi3]

Sinking, don't apologize. My wife as i said is Colombian, BIL is Hatian. Even they admit the truth. This is "white guilt complex syndrome" being spouted. No, we don't hate. What does hate have to do with truth. Why in the world someone who has not filed BK keeps coming back here i don't know. We know who this is and it's Lightning striking so to speak.

it is not about hate. But let me tell you, you are well hated in many of those countries, and in that laundromat. I live this issue on a grass roots level daily. I speak fluent Spanish and Creole. I live in a VERY mixed community. The majority of my friends are Latin. Oddly, the vast majority of our Colombian friends are Republican. They've lived appeasement, bleeding understanding and handing over matters to the left. So to those who think otherwise don't slap a Dem label on every latin. As to the "Radio talk show" comment this is to assume that we are all listeners to Rush Limbaugh. it is a dumb assed assumption to assume that because anyone has a certain take that they listen to a show. I do not listen to AM radio. I work at the time the talk shows are on here. I have not listened to any talk shows for years, my radio stays on 105.9 period when i'm coming home and when i go to work it's Paul and Young Ron. I hate AM Radio. However, since you have a particular "take" I must assume that you also can't think freely and listen to the Al Franken Show all the time. What are Al's marching orders for the week Lightning?

[fellowpoorman]

John it seems that you are the one sitting calmly at you're computer listening to the birds of many species chirping in all their wonderful different bird languages right outside your window.. contemplating and judging all the world around you.

[SinkingFast]

People with the gift for languages amaze me, Robivi. I've tried Spanish and wasn't very good at it. I can read and follow conversations, but never got the knack of speaking it like a normal Spanish speaking person would. Hubby tried French. Same thing. He can read, listen, and follow, but can't speak it. Where Daughter got this gift is beyond us.

The girls' high school offers Japanese. We have a Subaru Isuzu America plant here with lots of Japanese nationals living in the area. One of Daughter's friends is taking Japanese. Daughter is picking that up as well.

Must be a mutant or recessive gene popped out in that child.

[robivi3]

I am sure that all those Japanese illegals are bringing down the 'hood, stealing and robbing and getting straights A's while improving their homes and going about their business saving over 20% of their income! LOL, I'm not serious!

My middle son is trying to learn some Chinese, i am not sure what dialect. He has gone through a bunch of home lessons from Nova's library. I figure it will give him a good edge.

language comes very easy for me and it's passed down i guess. Son #1 can speak Hebrew, Yiddish and latin fluently and of course Spanish since that's spoken about half the time at home. I guess this sort flies in the face of John234/Fedler/Lightnings last comments. we are also supposed to think in a certain bubble and listen only to folks in that bubble. We can't have different or even conflicting thoughts on a particular subject. He thinks straight, narrow and damn near perfect all the time. Thank God for well adjusted people like him who for some reason hang around BK Forumswhen they haven't filed BK.

We don't think and exist in a bubble or in a vacuum. Everything tends to be fluid for the average person. being against illegals doesn't mean that we don't know or have illegals in our family or that we don't befriend people born outside the country. Life is not that cut and dry anywhere.

[fellowpoorman]

I wish I could speak other languages, learned a little Russian a few years back for a trip there I got to go on, however if you don't use , you do lose it. I'm not sure I would say I am against Illegals as much as I am against the non agressive , passe attitude of our govt. not enforcing the laws they pass. You can't fault anyone trying to improve their lives and if they look at America as all bark and no bite as far as laws then they have no fears about coming here, but the problem is they get the breaks and take what is rightfully ours, they use our laws against us, its frustrating and just wrong that our leaders don't give a damn. Better rephrase that a little, I am against illegals, if you want to come here , you are welcome , just do it legally, learn English, fly our flag, learn and obey our laws, respect us and we will respect you. Maybe someday the govt. will respect us too

[robivi3]

Fellowpoor I agree on the illegals, so does my wife. There are complications to being an illegal that aren't known unless you have folks in the family who are close to the issue. We have seen VERY close people sacrifice nice homes, good jobs to come here and in some cases work menial labor and not have the life they dreamed of. This hits very close to home. Being an Accountant in Colombia DOES NOT guarantee a good banking job here. you may end up painting houses and eating off roach coaches and such and waiting out your legal papers and worrying about being sent to Krome. I am flabbergasted when Americans speak with no concept of what is involved though. As though illegals don't have debt... That is so bloody "F"ing false as to show the total freaking ignorance of the person making the statement. I just can't say it strong enough. You have to be so out of touch with the subject to make such a stupid statement. I can tell you that many who come here are escaping circumstances of their own making that would make our BK's pale in comparison. It damned well ain't a bunch of Solzhenitsyn's coming here from the Gulags. We have some real criminals coming here. My wife and i saw a man years ago in a Colombian Bakery, my wife got out of there as quick as possible and has never gone back. She told me "they are looking for him in Colombia, he kills people, don't say anything because he knows I saw him". She meant that something would happen to her family, they nor her were involved with the man, but he had lived in their neighborhood years ago. The man was tied to a horrible gang down there that scared the bejesus out of my wife and had every power to do what she said. Having a Colombian stepmother, Colombian wife, Colombian friends and cubans and Hatians and all i get very upset when i hear naive people make stupid comments about crime, debt and other issues concerning "illegals".

The stupidity of making those comments just wrankles me no end, words strong enough to describe the inanity of what was said just don't exist.
For understandable reasons my concept of the average illegal is that they are escaping issues of their own making, INCLUDING DEBT LOADS THAT ARE ENORMOUS. Only there they take your life. Do you know that in the freaking outback of Colombia it is common for doctors to remove eyes or body parts from poor, single mothers infants. Does John234 not understand that in the poor parts of those countries that family members are often sold to other people to satisfy debts. Does he nnot understand that here in Miami it is common for Police to go in, make an arrest and find children illegally here being sexually used and working in the homes of well off third worlders? That many, not all, come here with an abhorrent set of values? How many times here we turn on the news and some maid has decided to go to the Cops and spill the beans about being kept as a slave after being told that this family would help her get her papers? That because of their debts there are people who live in abject fear of being sent home???????????????????????????????? they may die????????????????????

[SinkingFast]

Your comment about being an accountant back home and getting a menial job here sounds so familiar, Robivi.

When I first started working professionally, it was a small contract Laboratory. We had a little Bac-T Lab downstairs, but the work load was growing and the company was looking to add a person and a job. Problem was, the company needed competent people, but couldn't pay to attract well qualifed professionals. Next thing I know, we have a former Russian national coming to work for us. She and her family have Green Cards and are working on becoming US Citizens.

She was a very nice lady. Her fault was her family was Jewish. They'd slipped out of Russia, this was while it was still the USSR, to Isreal. A group there had helped them get the proper paperwork and paid their way to the USA. When they got to the United States, they were sent to live with a family that was available to take them. This gave them time to find jobs, an apartment, and establish their lives. The woman my company hired to do routine bacteriological work for very low pay was the equivalent of a medical Doctor in Russia. While it wasn't the normal menial labor, this woman was WAY over qualified for the job she held with the company I worked for.

If they had stayed in Russia, they were in danger of being put in prison or worse. They literally ran for their lives with nothing but the clothes they could carry in a bag each.

One of my best friends in college was an Iranian guy. He and his brother were here in the US. Their sister was living in France. Their parents saw the political climate changing in Iran, felt the Shah's days were numbered, and got their kids out. They were right. The Shah fell and the whole country changed.

The price many of these people pay to get to the US is unimaginable to most of us. I have been fortunate to personally know good people that have come into our country legally. But I also know that bad people come as well.

[robivi3]

Alot of times the systems of doing things are so different and so modern in the US that in the case of some family members there is no possibility of working in the same field in the US. However, in this case the moved served well for one of the off-spring. While the father got legal but never recovered his former life his daughter who came here has graduated UM and is doing well.

The other daughter stayed behind and is doing well as a chemical engineer. They were from good stock so to speak. My wife's family, like most here ranges from very wealthy to lower income, but not poor or trashy. Her uncle was an upholsterer for Avianca and raised four boys and a daughter. They are all doing well and are quite American, breaking out and she can now boast more family in Tennessee than I can. One cousin moved here from Nashville and declared this place very disorganized and unfriendly and went back. He works in management for Doral. The one here is lovely as is Nashville's, but the one in Miami is gorgeous, utterly gorgeous. But as he said, Nashville is like Barranquilla, everyone says "good morning".

A Hatian friend broke the mold and is living in Huntsville, Ala.

[fellowpoorman]

How to say this, I'll try. I have so much sympathy for people who are struggling to survive in this world, so much care for those who are trying to improve thier families lives by sacrificing their own dreams and desires, no matter where they are from, this is a HUMAN thing, something way beyond nationalities and races. We are here together, I am a somewhat religious person, raised Roman Catholic, but in my adult life I do not belong to a certain church, I have my beliefs and differences with the RC church but still consider myself Christian , and always will, I communicate with God my own way, To get back to the subject, I work in a restaurant kitchen, I am a natural born US citizen, White,and of 15 people in the kitchen I am the only one, the rest are Egyptians, Yemenis, and Equadorians, most legal ,some sketchy at best, yet I ,an American am refereed to as WHITE BOY, is that respect? I am the only one who can speak English fluently, yet I am the target, Heck they can"t even communicate to each other. I'm saying this is my country, I was born here yet I am at risk of losing my job because i can"t speak their language, and my beliefs differ from theirs, WTF , do I have to become Muslim to keep my job? This is Blue Collar AMERICA TODAY!

[debtisbad]

Just read the am news that the economy grew at 4.8% last Q. Bush will take full credit and of course his ratings will go up. Our paper talking about the exceptional economic boom. Where, if I may ask?????

[robivi3]

I totally agree fellowpoor. I get the same guff where i work. I can speak out more because we can't really be fired (the dossier has to be stacked to the moon for that). I have to be honest, the Mosque in my neighborhood is where the South Florida 9/11 connection folk attended. I have a different take on these folk and no respect and little sympathy. I'll allow any remark anyone wants to make to me on this issue because I don't patronize in any way any businesses they own in my neighborhood and there are several. There are some living in our TH complex, I absolutely keep away from them, no remarks, no dirty looks or spoken disrespect, just distance. Our Church is in the little industrial park right across a small canal from that Mosque. On top of the Church is an Isreali moving Company, across the street from the Mosque is the moving van with a glass rear window pointed at the entrance. They are being watched since 9/11, I'm sure they know it, it is no secret here. Because that place harbored what it did i have no trust for them, no like and I make no apology for it. Every time I choose Publix Coffee over Chock Full O' Nuts I discriminate and in who I get near in my personal life i have the right to discriminate.

The hell with apologies, Americans better decide what and who they believe and quit playing this PC baloney. That being said would i support someone doing something abusive to these folks within our borders? God forbid, I never want to be a Bosnia, rather than get along those fools destroyed their Country and infrastructure and chose dodging bullets over being able to get up, work and pay for a new car and grow old in peace. Now that is a little caveat for John Fedler AKA Lightning who is so narrow minded that he thinks that you think with one thought inside one little bubble and doesn't recognize that that doesn't mean that if you saw a muslim man or woman with kids with their car on fire on a lonely highway or being brutalized that you wouldn't try to help them. sometimes you have lay things out to avoid any unnecessary conversation with someone of limited intelligence who takes his viewpoints and marching orders from Al Franken and Air America ONLY (nothing against Al Franken, he is a necessity, America doesn't speak with one voice and one thought, that is why we aren't Nazis).

[krobin02]

Going back a little bit...

Reading this thread through has spurred a thought or two.

First:
These large corporations that are raking in the profits but how many of them are debt free (or virtually so)? I happen to work for one of them. For this I feel fortunate. I have stability in that I will more likely than not always be able to work for them and if I want to move I can go just about anyhwere. I am proud to be working for our country's #1 drugstore. They pay fairly well (considering other options around here), offer better benefits than a whole lot of other companies, are financially fit (still and after over 100 years in existence), and offer their employees opportunity for growth. The "prmote from within" mentality still exists though we do recruit also.

I wonder... of companies- especially retail- that are still growing and opening new locations, how many are doing it without going into debt (ie using loans) to do it?

Second:
Politically correct my a$$. I've said F. that to the concept since the first time I ever heard the term. It is the safe way to say "I'm scared that I might say something to offend you and might get hurt as a result (lack of freedom of speech?)."

Third:
The American dream is dead as of when the last of the baby boomers die. My parents are baby boomers (making me generation what? X?) and I have no hope of accomplishing in my life anywhere near the level of their accomplishments. The American Dream was realy about doing better than your parents. Those of us who are children of the baby boomers have almost no hope of this even when we have college degrees. I chose to stay with the company I started with in high school after I got my degree because I am making more there than I would if I left to use my degree. Sad isn't it? Even more so when you look at the fact that I am barely above poverty level.

[SinkingFast]

Well, Hubby and I are mid range Baby Boomers and we don't have what our parents had.

Our parents owned their own homes. Cars paid for in full. With pensions and social security and medical benefits. Not a grand lifestyle, but secure.

We're beyond broke and hoping BK will bring us back to broke.

We had more than our parents ever did for a fleeting moment, and then it was snatched away.

We won't ever work 35+ years for the same employer. Those days are gone. Dead. Hubby had nearly 18 years in and it was all gone in the blink of an eye.

We don't have the guranteed pensions. Employers dropped those and started offering employees the opportunity to "save on their own". We're lucky when we get some small company match in the 401K plans.

Don't ever believe for one moment that you are secure in a job when you work for someone else. It's just not realistic. I used to work for the premier Beverage Alcohol producer in the world. A company that considers it's employees to be members of the family. Figured I'd always have a job because people will always drink. People still drink but I was laid off nearly 20 years ago.

[robivi3]

Odd news. A buddy walked into work this morning and complained that roofs aren't getting done in his neighborhood. I have noticed that none are being worked on here but gave it no thought. My mother just came over complaining that she couldn't get her car washed because the car wash in Weston couldn't open its doors this weekend. Seems that illegals aren't showing up for work. What gives?

Is it nationwide or just Dade & Broward?

[SinkingFast]

Nationwide.

I saw that on the news earlier this week. They were calling for a nationwide boycott to prove just how valuable illegal workers are to our economy.

Hubby said he thought it was supposed to be tomorrow.