Jobless and hopeless in America

[tobee43]

Who should decide what is healthy though? The government? Me? You? The companies that are in food production (watched food inc, anyone?) ? What about a dr? Yes, lets let them decide; because they all agree.

Broke people will spend the money if it's important to them. My mother stopped smoking after 28 years. Not because prices were so high, but because a dr told her if she kept it up she wouldn't see her grandkids grow up.

My dad on the other hand, (who used to tell me second hand smoke wasn't bad and that smoking probably wasn't either, that it was made up by the government. That I was terrible for not letting my kids in houses that are smoked in) still smokes 2 packs a day and a 6 pack a day. and he is broke. During the winter my mom provides for them by working at a daycare, yet he still has his cigarettes (highly taxed) and beer.

If we tax Doritos, they will still be bought. Healthy food actually takes a bit of work and time. People are going to stick with what they know and are used to, unless they have information they wont change.

you got a good point...remember Prohibition??? that sure didn't help anyone other than the bootleggers,...but it never stopped drinking.

i know..it gets to the point who do you want to tell YOU what or what you cannot eat or drink...it's fine line for certain...

and me too, i didn't stop smoking because it was so expensive i stopped because my daughter got pregnant with our first grand child and said it's cigarettes or us...well that was a no brainer...

and your right...i LIVE on sunflower seeds....next we'll say the salt is unhealthy....so i hear you

but in all honesty...it does bother me when the lady in front of me has food stamps and her cart is full of junky foods...so i guess it's more my problem...but we can't began taking people's rights away.....well sorta..cuz they already have banned smoking almost everywhere....

so it's ....i agree a really fine line!

[tobee43]

New York charges tax on many "junk food" items, all fast foods, alcohol, and tobacco. In fact, the New York City taxes on these items (especially tobacco) are the highest in the nation. Cigarettes, the last time I checked, were between $10.00 and $13.00 a pack, depending on brand.

Based on all these taxes, I would think people here should be lean, mean, and smoke-free. But alas, no. The taxes haven't led to an explosion in gyms or tofu bars, nor have they forced children off their little asses and away from their video games and computers to go outside and play. All they've led to is a transfer of even more money from consumers' pockets to government coffers.

The tobacco tax is the most useless of all, and like most oppressive sales taxes, has led mainly to tax evasion and fraud -- on the parts of both consumers and government. The government paints a picture of a rapid drop in cigarette sales immediately after the tax increase kicked in, and applauds itself for its "success" in motivating people to quit smoking. Of course, those of us whose heads are rooted in reality know otherwise.

We know that tax-free, Native-made cigarettes can be purchased for about three bucks a pack at the Native American reservation an hour east of here, and that the passengers on the "sightseeing" vans that visit the depressing little place didn't buy their tickets so they could enjoy the squalor.

The state claims that the reservations should be collecting cigarette taxes. The courts have been telling the state, "No," for about twenty or thirty years, citing treaties that give the reservations status as sovereign nations, yet the state persists in trying -- unsuccessfully -- to collect the taxes.

We also know that name-brand cigarettes can be obtained for about $6.00 a pack (less than half of the NYC price) from any of the neighborhood guys for whom daily trips to Pennsylvania in their old vans have become full-time jobs.

Personally, I also expect tobacco to replace marijuana as the most commonly grown illicit crop around here. The seeds are cheaper, it's easier to grow, and the penalties, if caught cultivating more than the "personal use" limit of one-tenth of an acre, are trivial compared with the penalties for cultivating marijuana.

In the end, the primary effect of the tobacco tax hike has been to encourage criminality in the form of evasion and fraud, very much like prohibition resulted in the rise of organized crime. And frankly, in the current case, I really can't blame people for evading the taxes.

Not only is the tax rate itself absurd (it calculates to something like 400 percent of the product cost), but the state's been trying to illegally tax cigarette sales at the Native reservations for almost 30 years. No matter how many times they lose in court, and no matter how many judges issue the same rulings regarding the sovereignty of Native American nations, the state persists in trying new schemes to illegally collect cigarette taxes from Native reservations.

So if the state government sets an example of criminality by thirty years of trying to do something that they've repeatedly been told is illegal, why should the citizens particularly care about the state's opinion?

-Rich

rich when we were smokers i was getting from the indian reservations in ny..and guess what.....??????

i got a nice almost 3k tax bill from nj that i had to pay!!!

So if the state government sets an example of criminality by thirty years of trying to do something that they've repeatedly been told is illegal, why should the citizens particularly care about the state's opinion?

got that right!

[tobee43]

I can't wait for winter to be over. I'm one of those people that will end up on America's funniest videos if I keep using the treadmill. I wish I were kidding.

well...i just had that darn knee surgery and i can't WAIT to get outside and walk run jump swim......and i'm in warm weather...

when we lived in the snow and had money..LOL!!! we had work out equipment ...but no more...however, in the cold it's like you need it!

[RichM]

rich when we were smokers i was getting from the indian reservations in ny..and guess what.....??????

i got a nice almost 3k tax bill from nj that i had to pay!!!

I got one of those years ago, as well, when I lived in Upstate New York. The tax people apparently took notice of my plate number as I drove onto and off of the Onondaga reservation.

I called the tax department and told them to go eff themselves, that I hadn't bought any cigarettes, and that I wasn't paying them any taxes. They told me to prove I didn't buy cigarettes, and I told them to prove that I did.

Eventually, they hauled me in front of a judge, charging me with everything they could think of except the Lindbergh murder. The judge asked me why, if I wasn't buying cigarettes, did I visit the reservation so frequently. "Because I work there," I replied, and showed him my time sheets for the work I did there and a copy of the contract. The reservation, including the smoke shop, was one of my clients.

The judge looked over the papers, and then at me, and asked why I hadn't simply explained this to the tax people. I replied, "Because it's none of their effing business."

The judge looked at me, and at the tax department's attorney, said "Case dismissed," and that was that.

-Rich

[espo1357]

I got one of those years ago, as well, when I lived in Upstate New York. The tax people apparently took notice of my plate number as I drove onto and off of the Onondaga reservation.

I called the tax department and told them to go eff themselves, that I hadn't bought any cigarettes, and that I wasn't paying them any taxes. They told me to prove I didn't buy cigarettes, and I told them to prove that I did.

Eventually, they hauled me in front of a judge, charging me with everything they could think of except the Lindbergh murder. The judge asked me why, if I wasn't buying cigarettes, did I visit the reservation so frequently. "Because I work there," I replied, and showed him my time sheets for the work I did there and a copy of the contract. The reservation, including the smoke shop, was one of my clients.

The judge looked over the papers, and then at me, and asked why I hadn't simply explained this to the tax people. I replied, "Because it's none of their effing business."

The judge looked at me, and at the tax department's attorney, said "Case dismissed," and that was that.

-Rich

Tax dollars at work.

good for you. maybe its better to just be nice in the beginning. perhaps jacko can chime in on this, because he knows what is best for all of us to do in all situations, and whatever you do in life, don't use lead paint or eat twinkies, because jacko may knock on your door.

[lovemybugs10]

The food stamps thing drives me crazy too.

Fact is, eating healthy cost more. By healthy I mean little preservatives and no pesticides. That's partly the governments fault too. To be certified organic is expensive. We've got big companies corrupt hands all in the government. It's sickening.

Ultimately it comes down to the fact that it isn't up to the government to try to make me give up my oreos.

Should we have automatic shut off on our tv and gaming systems? We all know that is contributing to obesity. Perhaps the government to put their greedy paws all over that too. Of course it's "in our best interest"

[espo1357]

The food stamps thing drives me crazy too.

Fact is, eating healthy cost more. By healthy I mean little preservatives and no pesticides. That's partly the governments fault too. To be certified organic is expensive. We've got big companies corrupt hands all in the government. It's sickening.

Ultimately it comes down to the fact that it isn't up to the government to try to make me give up my oreos.

Should we have automatic shut off on our tv and gaming systems? We all know that is contributing to obesity. Perhaps the government to put their greedy paws all over that too. Of course it's "in our best interest"

I am so ashamed to finally learn that the government is not our friend. I am still pretty young, so I will give myself a break for not seeing this earlier. But, for those of you that are over 30 and still see the government as a friend, you are clueless.

[tobee43]

I got one of those years ago, as well, when I lived in Upstate New York. The tax people apparently took notice of my plate number as I drove onto and off of the Onondaga reservation.

I called the tax department and told them to go eff themselves, that I hadn't bought any cigarettes, and that I wasn't paying them any taxes. They told me to prove I didn't buy cigarettes, and I told them to prove that I did.

Eventually, they hauled me in front of a judge, charging me with everything they could think of except the Lindbergh murder. The judge asked me why, if I wasn't buying cigarettes, did I visit the reservation so frequently. "Because I work there," I replied, and showed him my time sheets for the work I did there and a copy of the contract. The reservation, including the smoke shop, was one of my clients.

The judge looked over the papers, and then at me, and asked why I hadn't simply explained this to the tax people. I replied, "Because it's none of their effing business."

The judge looked at me, and at the tax department's attorney, said "Case dismissed," and that was that.

-Rich

we got MAIL notified by the nj tax department with the bill.......

we paid it rich!!!!!! i just didn't want to deal with the "tax" man...or lady. we had them shipped so apparently all the paperwork was there on our shipments for the past 2 years ...so they had us...no getting out it..

[tobee43]

The food stamps thing drives me crazy too.

Fact is, eating healthy cost more. By healthy I mean little preservatives and no pesticides. That's partly the governments fault too. To be certified organic is expensive. We've got big companies corrupt hands all in the government. It's sickening.

Ultimately it comes down to the fact that it isn't up to the government to try to make me give up my oreos.

Should we have automatic shut off on our tv and gaming systems? We all know that is contributing to obesity. Perhaps the government to put their greedy paws all over that too. Of course it's "in our best interest"

OH!!! again your sooooooo right...it's 11pm..and the fast food places are running tv commercials right and left....get up out of bed and go get some Kentucky fried chicken!!!!!

and other than an actual medical reason, you are so right again...we ALL know what makes one obese.

to eat "right" and or healthy is indeed more expensive, but we need to become for creative with our meals...especially since the darn cost of food is getting out of control..what are we suppose to do.......i'm NOT eating FAT BACK......ever...

[Pandora]

to eat "right" and or healthy is indeed more expensive, but we need to become for creative with our meals...especially since the darn cost of food is getting out of control..what are we suppose to do.......i'm NOT eating FAT BACK......ever...

I hear ya - but its relatively easy if you think about it. Grow your own food and make things from scratch. It's healthier, cheaper and you get more product for every dollar spent.

Veggies: Dont own land to do a garden? Easy fix - do it in buckets / pots / hay bales / old tires - whatever works. A 5 gallon bucket will hold 2 tomato plants, each averaging roughly 10-15 lbs of tomatos depending on which plant you start with (ex.: Beefsteak & Betterboys will yield that amount). Cucumbers, peppers, onions, potatos, cabbage, carrots, etc etc etc can all be grown this way.

like fruit? Get a dwarf fruit tree, which can also be grown on a patio in a bucket. There are many different varieties available, from 1 type of fruit that bears on a tree to a multi-fruit tree (i.e, 5-in-1 apple tree). Strawberries can be done easily enough in a pot / bucket as well.

Learn to can / preserve. We go pick 20 lbs of strawberries for roughly $30 at a local farm; those 20 lbs of berries ($30), 2.5 lbs of sugar ($4 for a 5 lb bag/you'd only use half, so $2), 1 pack of pectin (approx. $2) make up about 30 pints of jam (average size for store bought is half pint), and takes about 30 minutes start to finished jars. For 36 jelly jars it will run you approx. $9 per set *reg. price but we've got them on sale for as low as $5 / 12 count* and are reusable every single year. What do you spend on a jar of jelly/jam on average in the store? Premium brands run about $3-4 per jar, and storebrands run about $2, for a cost of $120-240 for the same amount you'd get homemade. Those 30 homemade jams will run you roughly $1.13 in actual product, or $34 - big difference. Dont count the jars since you're going to reuse them every year - they pay for themselves in the long run.

We also do grape, peach, apple butter, pear butter this way. Pick your own is the best way to get the most for your money.

baked goods: learn to bake products you'd buy in the store that are 'convenience' foods (muffins, frozen pancakes, rolls, breads, granola bars, etc). Ounce for ounce you'll get more for the money than purchasing. A 20 lb bag of flour (name brand) runs about $6-8; 25 lb bag of sugar $12; Salt $1-2; baking powder & soda approx. $1-3 depending on brand.

Those are your staples and all you need to make any baked good for the most part. Add in extracts, fruits, etc and you're still much better off than purchasing those "ready to eat" products that have ingredients no one can pronounce in them.

meat: Go local - call up farms that sell beef & pork by the quarter, half & whole side - many have something similiar to a CSA where you can go in with others on a whole cow/pig. You'll get more, it's healthier, you know where it was raised/came from/ how it was treated. Average cost here for 300lb off the hoof (half a side of beef) is roughly $2.25 processed and packaged, with many butcher houses using commercial packaging (like a foodsaver does).

Lastly - and my favorite - if you're able to (check local codes) - get a chicken or two They're great pets and provide you breakfast every single morning! Average cost for 6 full sized birds monthly: $20 (and thats eating gourmet!) And FYI - regardless what people may believe, you do NOT need a rooster to get eggs from a hen They lay eggs w/out the rooster, they're just not fertilized eggs.

[lovemybugs10]

Pandora, you are speaking my language. I cannot wait to get out of this apartment and back into a house. I would love not to buy my strawberries from the grocery store anymore.

I'm trying to convince my husband to go off grid, but he is having none of that. I would love to be totally self sufficient. Hopefully we can compromise and I can get a hen or two.

[discouraged]

Ah Pandora - you had to mention eggs! I just had a wake-up call from my Dr about my cholestrol and eggs (which I love) are now a no-no. As are so many other things. Thankfully I have always tried to eat healthy but, being unemployed for 2 years with just temp jobs, I found myself going for 'cheaper' things that I wouldn't have touched when I was working. And, being in MN, we cannot grow our vegetables year round, nor do we have fruit trees, outside of apples.

But, I am re-learning how to eat and buy good food. It kills me though that I am going to have to give away so many things that I can no longer eat! At least until my cholestrol goes down, and even then I suppose I'll always have to watch it. Now...if I could only find a job that would pay for the extra food expense, that would be great.

[tobee43]

PANDORA

you are so brilliant!!!!!! really you need to write a book...i have decided...you would have been proud of us when we lived up north..we had a special wood burner made like 25 years ago with a water tank built in....the wood would heat the water and circulated through out the house and also giving us 10 minutes of hot water per hour....so we were oil and gas free for many years...until we were too old to haul the wood!! and the smell was getting to me, and i was getting lazy!

we go to the local farmers market and just buy what's on special...this week was mango for 59 cents...so i'm making white fish tonight with mango salsa.....soaked my red beans last night....got my rice ready...some sliced avacado...on special for 69 cents this week....and we are eating for 3 days!! i got the whole fresh flounder and had it fillet and it was only $3.98 a pound...only problem with that was the smallest fish was 3 lbs...LOL!! so i'll be cooking a ton today..my second day up and i NEED REAL FOOD!!
cuz like i mentioned my dh thinks olive oil is a main food group......yuck....

discouraged......eggs...i always hated them, but only because of the yoke...so now i just eat egg whites...i love them....low low low....cholestrol. .i make omelets with tons of veggies...ohso's are out now......cheap and the sweetest onion anyone can get..(i'm even making stuffed onions to freeze) since the ohso's have such a short season. i'm on the cooking animal speed zone today since it's been so long that i have eaten a meal....i mean it's not like i don't like olive oil or anything...LOL!!! he's going for cooking classes asap...that's all i can say after this experience..i mean i have been with him 40 years and all he can do is make toast and eggs and olive oil???

[tobee43]

Pandora, you are speaking my language. I cannot wait to get out of this apartment and back into a house. I would love not to buy my strawberries from the grocery store anymore.

I'm trying to convince my husband to go off grid, but he is having none of that. I would love to be totally self sufficient. Hopefully we can compromise and I can get a hen or two.

hehehe...you'll need a rooster too...

[Pandora]

discouraged: Eggs arent THAT bad for ya ;) although admittedly, I havent eaten an actual egg in about 9 months now - for some reason eggs and chicken make my stomach turn and i'm not quite sure why. I lived on chicken and eggs prior to this weird aversion and no..its not because we have chickens , since we've had them for 3 years now. *sighs* Do you take fish oil by chance? if not, start taking it and your cholesterol levels will drop a bit, also oatmeal helps too. Been where you are but mine is hereditary and when I hit 40, my levels just jumped for no reason as diet didnt change prior to. Very scary to say the least, but it's managed now with fish oil and a very low dose of Pravastatin, so I'm good.

you can still grow your own veggies in MN Do them in a green house situation! its very easy to build one, simply build a small frame using wood or pvc *whatever works for you - and can be recycled wood* and thick plastic sheeting to cover. An 8X10 / 10x10 Green house can be built for less than $100. A patio version is even less, especially if you have old windows / old storm door laying about or know someone who does.

lovemybugs: i hear ya! Wish we were off the grid but its very hard to do and you have to be extremely dedicated. I like technology too much LOL! Then again, you can supplement by doing little things like making your own solar heater to supplement your housing heat / garage heat / basement, etc. Very minimal cost (tubing/cans, black heat paint, wood for framing, old storm door or plexiglass) and TA-DA - you now have a passive Solar heater, no electricity required for it to work! We will be making one this spring to supplement this winter for our garage and basement; on average it will cost about $50 for each one. We will also be doing the same thing with our swimming pool so it stays warm longer, all w/out using electricity to heat it. Google homemade solar heaters and you will find a ton of plans and step by step how to build them.

Tobee: you're too funny . Nah, will pass on the book - too much effort LOL! Yep - we used to have a woodstove in our 1st house many moons ago and I agree, too much work for me, and smoke triggers migraines for me, so they're out. Living in FL, you can do a solar water heater, its perfect for down there - just need another tank for the water to sit in, then transfer to the other tank that heats it up. If you have the water sitting in the collection tank and it comes in at say..80-85 degrees before it transfers over, its less heat-up time for hot water, which works great if you have all electric vs. gas or a combo of the two.

Farmers markets are great, unfortunately many here actually purchase their produce from, of all places..the grocery stores - then resell it. Terrible and so deceptive, unfortunately many people arent aware of it. There is absolutely nothing like a homegrown tomato, sliced thick for a sandwhich with mayo, salt & pepper! YUM! Ack - now I want a tomato sandwhich LOL! C'mon SPRING!!

and no..no rooster required