TSA Guidelines & "You touch my junk" guy

[Pandora]

Thoughts on the new guidelines for Airport Security Screenings

Personally, I feel that if I'm going to be subjected to a full body scan, then there is no need for anyone to "pat me down" police style as they have no right to do so. Now if I refused to go through the body scan, then...of course I'd have to submit to some sort of screening - but to have to do both? I tend to side with the guy in this - no one has a right to touch my body in that manner unless I'm being arrested for something. While airport security is important in this day and age, I believe it's being taken too far and is extreme, especially since they've implemented full body scans that show everything Reminds me of that old saying that your mom would say "Dont forget to wear clean underwear in case you get in an accident!" Before too long we'll all be required to strip down... no one need see my undies but a select few and TSA aint it Now I'll have to make sure I'm "matching" before hitting that scanner... LOL!

What's your thoughts on this issue?

[AngelinaCatHub]

I have to agree. Those on the 'talk' circuit are making plenty of waves. I wonder if a Muslim woman would just be motioned through. How much plastic explosive could she have under that burka? Politically correct is going to kill someone. 'Hub

Edit: xrays just like sun burn is accumulative. The pilots get exposed to a lot of xrays as high as they fly. So do we in our life. Next all Courthouses and the like will use these things. I don't care how underpowered we are told they are, if they go through clothes, you are accumulating cell damage from xray.

[tobee43]

Personally, I feel that if I'm going to be subjected to a full body scan, then there is no need for anyone to "pat me down" police style as they have no right to do so. Now if I refused to go through the body scan, then...of course I'd have to submit to some sort of screening - but to have to do both? I tend to side with the guy in this - no one has a right to touch my body in that manner unless I'm being arrested for something

in reference to the bold red print.........the something is PAY ME...if you want to touch me...after all my poor husband paid with his life.

seriously, the last time we traveled a few months ago to calif. we swore that was it! no more for us.... my bag was torn apart...i was delayed for what?... my shoes were scanned and scanned AGAIN and they were flip flops!! come on??

if this is put into effect, we simply will not fly anymore...anyone what to see us...they have to go through it..we will not travel further than we can drive.

[HHM]

The TSA guys always have the same excuse...if it was your son or daughter getting on that plane, you would want security to do everything possible....blah blah blah.

How about this one, what if security fondled a 5 year hold boy, in the name of security.

At a minimum, there needs to be some sort of reasonable cause, which is apparently lacking in most of this circumstances.

[Pandora]

I agree 'Hub - and now that begs to bring into the mix religious preferences. You're correct...would religion play a part in this? I dont know, but I'm sure at some point in time...someone will bring that up. Same thing for a pregnant woman - will that woman be made to go through the scanning machine or can she state it will cause harm to her unborn child? Me personally, I would not want to go through being pregnant - so that would leave the pat down search - but again...would they pat down a pregnant woman? At what point does this border on sexual harassment? I would get extremely mad when I was pregnant with my kids and a stranger or even friends would pat my belly without asking me. It got to a point where the next person that did so without my permission (not immediate family) I grabbed her "girls" and said "Yep..you too...getting bigger!" LOL! The look was priceless however the point was made very clear: My body..my right to deny you to touch it.

There has to be limits. If I walked up to you and patted you down as you walked into a restaurant because I thought you "looked suspicious".... can I claim the same rights as the TSA is claiming? Before too long it seems that no matter what we will be doing (shopping, movies, walking in the park), we will be scanned, patted, examined, have to get retinal scans, DNA samples..etc etc etc.

ETA: Just read your post HHM - and yep.. I agree with that too... as I would not allow anyone else to touch my child in such a manner.

[tobee43]

? Before too long it seems that no matter what we will be doing (shopping, movies, walking in the park), we will be scanned, patted, examined, have to get retinal scans, DNA samples..etc etc etc....i guess i'll be staying home forever if that starts!!!!

ETA: Just read your post HHM - and yep.. I agree with that too... as I would not allow anyone else to touch my child in such a manner. that's an extremely interesting, down right scary point.

they will have to set limits...i understand they are using the laws that allow this...but one would still believe the civil liberties union would be right there in a ny minute.

[Freddy03]

At OIA you are not subjected to both a pat down and xray screen. If you decline to go thru the xrays you then are subjected to a pat down search. You will be subjected to both if they find something suspicious during the xray scan.

I find it so funny when people complain about the elderly being searched. You would be amazed at what happens behind the scenes at the airports. Last month a 77 year old man thought it was ok to put two 9mm pistols in his carry on.

These are the same people who will complain that there isn't enough security if (I hope never) our airplanes are hijacked.

People forget the reason why this security is needed.

A simple solution to anyone who doesn't want to be screened - Find another form of transportation.

[Freddy03]

There has to be limits. If I walked up to you and patted you down as you walked into a restaurant because I thought you "looked suspicious".... can I claim the same rights as the TSA is claiming? Before too long it seems that no matter what we will be doing (shopping, movies, walking in the park), we will be scanned, patted, examined, have to get retinal scans, DNA samples..etc etc etc.

TSA aren't walking up to random people and performing pat downs with out permission.

[Pandora]

TSA aren't walking up to random people and performing pat downs with out permission.

Well, yes...in a manner of speaking - they are. If I subject myself to essentially an "x-ray" that shows every single thing on my body (and my body itself) then I should not have to be subjected to a personal "pat down" at the discretion of the TSA official because they decide I have to do so. On what basis would I have to do it if I passed through the scanner w/out issue?

Security is an issue, I agree - however at what point does it become sexual harassment? Would you let a man that you dont know pat down your child in such a manner? What if that person was a secret pedophile or something of that nature? How can you defend what you deem "inappropriate touching / lingering" if you felt you were "felt up" because that TSA official thought they could do as they pleased, while claiming it was "within reason" in their eyes? Now it becomes a "he said she said" scenario... who do you think will win that argument?

What background investigations are done on these officials that give them the right to pat me down? There are police officers who take advantage of people - and they go through vigorous background checks. Its always "after the fact" that issues come to light.

[Freddy03]

Well, yes...in a manner of speaking - they are. If I subject myself to essentially an "x-ray" that shows every single thing on my body (and my body itself) then I should not have to be subjected to a personal "pat down" at the discretion of the TSA official because they decide I have to do so. On what basis would I have to do it if I passed through the scanner w/out issue?

Security is an issue, I agree - however at what point does it become sexual harassment? Would you let a man that you dont know pat down your child in such a manner? What if that person was a secret pedophile or something of that nature? How can you defend what you deem "inappropriate touching / lingering" if you felt you were "felt up" because that TSA official thought they could do as they pleased, while claiming it was "within reason" in their eyes?

What background investigations are done on these officials that give them the right to pat me down? There are police officers who take advantage of people - and they go through vigorous background checks. Its always "after the fact" that issues come to light.

TSA officers go thru the same background checks as police officers. So are you saying that if a police officer stops you and has to do a pat down you will decline? I'm not really following your reasoning.

If you are worried about pedophiles then you should add doctors to your list. They touch children every day. Who is to say they are doing it "within reason" in "their eyes".

[ByeByeCCs]

Four years after 9/11 I took a part time job with an airline mainly because I needed the travel benefits. Everyday I would report to work, swipe my badge and I was in the secure area. No security checks or anything. At the end of my work week I would even bring my carry on bag with me, store it in my locker and when my shift was over I would retrieve it, head up to the departure area and hop on a flight. No security check whatsoever. I am not sure if things have changed, but I never thought things were very secure despite all the checks the paying passengers were going through.

[Pandora]

TSA officers go thru the same background checks as police officers. So are you saying that if a police officer stops you and has to do a pat down you will decline? I'm not really following your reasoning.

If you are worried about pedophiles then you should add doctors to your list. They touch children every day. Who is to say they are doing it "within reason" in "their eyes".

It's within my right to decline if a police officer wants to pat me down, absolutely - just as its within my right to decline to take a breath test, talk, allow a search of my vehicle, home, etc without a justifiable cause. Will I get charged with failure to comply or something of that nature? Possibly. A police officer may pat down my clothing but they may not pat down my body, that is my right. A police officer has to have due cause for a pat down... and I would ask what the justification is. There are bad apples in the police world just as anywhere else, but say you get pulled over for speeding and that officer gets a power trip, making you get out of the car and forces a full body search. What reason is there for doing so... because I was speeding? If I didnt feel it was justified, then they wouldnt touch my person, period.

The difference in a medical setting is I am with my child all times, every time - so no one has the opportunity to touch them inappropriately as I am there.

There are 2 separate issues here - if I allow myself to be scanned - and pass - why would I be subjected to a pat down? Because the TSA official "said so" and felt it necessary? On what basis?

[Freddy03]

It's within my right to decline if a police officer wants to pat me down, absolutely - just as its within my right to decline to take a breath test, talk, allow a search of my vehicle, home, etc without a justifiable cause. Will I get charged with failure to comply or something of that nature? Possibly. A police officer may pat down my clothing but they may not pat down my body, that is my right. A police officer has to have due cause for a pat down... and I would ask what the justification is. There are bad apples in the police world just as anywhere else, but say you get pulled over for speeding and that officer gets a power trip, making you get out of the car and forces a full body search. What reason is there for doing so... because I was speeding? If I didnt feel it was justified, then they wouldnt touch my person, period.

The difference in a medical setting is I am with my child all times, every time - so no one has the opportunity to touch them inappropriately as I am there.

There are 2 separate issues here - if I allow myself to be scanned - and pass - why would I be subjected to a pat down? Because the TSA official "said so" and felt it necessary? On what basis?

If your child was subjected to a pat down a parent or guardian would be in the room. TSA officers are not patting down your naked body. You have clothes on and it's the SAME pat down that every single police officer performs. The TSA officers are not fondling passengers. You have to option to do it privately away from other passengers but there are other people in the room.

Also the x-ray scans do not show your face and your name.

At OIA you are only subjected to a pat down if 1. You decline the xray scan or 2. Do not pass the xray scan.

I believe people are making this out to be a bigger deal than what it is. But that's my opinion.

Like I said before if you do not agree with the security there are other forms of transportation.

[Pandora]

Well Freddy we're going to have to agree to disagree I'm afraid Police may only pat down clothing - not your actual body and are not allowed to go into your pockets unless you allow it. TSA officials do not do "clothing only" - they touch your body, including inner thighs and backside, in full. Even the pilots are up in arms over this.

"In late October, TSA added another layer of security, the resolution pat-down, which requires TSA agents to grasp the body of the subject more firmly when running hands over limbs and also requires probing up to the genital areas of the body. The scanners show a body's contours on a computer stationed in a private room removed from the security checkpoints. A person's face is never shown and the person's identity is supposedly not known to the screener reviewing the images. Under TSA rules, those who decline must submit to pat-downs that include checks of the inside of travelers' thighs and buttocks.Aguilar said that once a passenger enters the security area, there is a legal obligation to follow through with the process.

While a passenger can ask to opt-out of the full body scan, they must walk through the traditional metal scanner and then, at the discretion of the TSA, undergo a pat-down search.

Aguilar said the aggressive body search is not designed as an inducement for passengers to opt into the full body scan. "

TSA's website clearly states that "due cause" is up to the official even if you pass the scanner - and the bottom line is the American people have no rights as to what is justifiable for such a search, i.e., TSA doesnt NEED a reason. Thats wrong - even police have to show cause.

I'm all for security as I've said, but I'm not for trampling on my rights as a US Citizen. Constitutional Amendments are there for a reason yet it seems every day a bit more is hacked off what this country's basis is, all in the name of _________ (insert reason here).

Dont Tread on Me indeed.

[Pandora]

I wonder if people just started showing up naked at the airport if that would suffice? LOL

Could you see that?! OMG