Are you more pessimistic about the economy than most?

[AbbeyA]

I am assuming that the vast majority of us here are going through or have been through a bankruptcy. Most of us have been severely affected by the awful economy -- since you have been so negatively affected by the economy, are you more pessimistic about the economy/recovery than people you know that haven't been affected?

I am - I absolutely believe that the economy will continue to tank and that this will eventually be declared a depression.

I have family members and friends who haven't really been affected thus far (no pay cuts or job losses for them), and they seem to be in denial about how bad it really is. Just curious about your thoughts ...

[andy158]

The current economy is synonomus to a person with and addiction. It has to hit rock bottom to get better. A "depression" is what is needed to let the country start over again in the right direction and that is to keep government out of the private sector. Being "too big to fail" should not even be an after thought. Our country cannot sustain the "cost" of continuing status quo. Government is too big and relies to heavily on the "taxable" population for life support. The economy is a large scale of what our family has gone through. We realized the debt consumed every aspect of our living and needed to shed the burden. We are in our personal "depression" for four more years.

The media must think the average person is ignorant of the fact that the country is not "recovering" from this recession. Look around and you see local communities, counties and states suffering severe budget deficits. Our government continues to hide its head in the sand and throw more money at the problems hoping it will ignite a "recovery".

Just my 2 cents

[AngelinaCatHub]

AbbeyA: You are the smart one. Those with heads in sand will be caught blind sighted. I have never been happier than after my bk and losing about 10 mil on paper and 250K in law suits. However, I expected worse in Jimmy Carter days. What I expected then, I am seeing now. I believe it is too late to recover our Country. All three checks and balances are petrified by this 'Bammy. His Chicago brutes are pros. Believe me I know.

It is obvious he is having a ball, cares less about the Country, pleased that his 'agenda' to Socialize/Communize this Country is progressing. The failure and stalling to help BP in their dire straights is apparant to a blind man. He is obvious and does not care who sees as when his adorned, Heaven blessed, lips move, people faint. BS. He is a con artist better than Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.

It is my opinion, that we have had our last voted in president. We deserve what we voted in and president for life is coming. That is my opinion. I (so far) have a right to it. 'Hub

[epiphany]

ACH--

I agree with you on a number of levels but in no way do I believe that we have voted in our last president.

And I don't believe that we "deserve what we voted for". So many people turned out to vote for a minority just to vote for a minority even though they had no clue as to any of the issues.

I didn't do that. And I don't deserve what "we voted for".

I am not going to be surprised if some people are going to label me a racist just for this post (I'm okay with that because it's not true...I voted for him people). But I AM extremely disappointed.

You want to know about denial? My mother (who actually had no idea that I even filed bk), says there is NO RECESSION. Do you hear me? She is always right, so take heed..THERE IS noooooooooooooo RECESSION.

Of course, she can say whatever she wants and have it be right.. She and my Dad have always made good decisions in their financial lives.

Crap. I still don't know how it's done.

ep

[AngelinaCatHub]

ACH--

I agree with you on a number of levels but in no way do I believe that we have voted in our last president. Well, I hope you are right. His popularity just because he is black and a great orator (not speaker, he has a good speech writer, and a wonderful teleprompter.) I did not like Bush at all but I did not vote for this Chicago thug. I lived in Chicago and many of my customers were "mob" people. I knew how they worked. I know Chicago politics.

And I don't believe that we "deserve what we voted for". So many people turned out to vote for a minority just to vote for a minority even though they had no clue as to any of the issues. I didn't vote for him and none of us "deserve" this. It was a rhetorical remark of irony. We are closer to losing our Country than if we lost D day. Study a little of how AH came into power. Great orator, and did help his Country very much, get out of the world depression. Gave his Country hope, pride and certainly change. But he also was a despot.

I didn't do that. And I don't deserve what "we voted for". See above.

I am not going to be surprised if some people are going to label me a racist just for this post (I'm okay with that because it's not true...I voted for him people). But I AM extremely disappointed. I don't and I too am not afraid to be called that in that the word has become a weapon of fear. I see a lot of "get even" in 'Bammy's policies. Many made up or made worse emergencies that he must use our Treasury to fix. (pay off Union thugs). He wants to Nationalize the energy companies, mark my words that is why he has not acted to aid the clean up of oil spill. He has caused and stalled much effort to do so. Any other president would have had the National guard out there bearming up and cleaning up that oil.

You want to know about denial? My mother (who actually had no idea that I even filed bk), says there is NO RECESSION. Do you hear me? She is always right, so take heed..THERE IS noooooooooooooo RECESSION. People like described will willingly be led to the box cars waiting to take them to their deaths. You cannot tell some people as he who has no vision will not see. They are like the guy pushed off the 12 story building. For eleven stories you can hear him say "so far, so good".

Of course, she can say whatever she wants and have it be right.. She and my Dad have always made good decisions in their financial lives. Good decisions and and a lot of good timing in luck. As stated before, things happened by timing for us too. Being as old as I am (66) and worth about 10 mil, we donated our land away for a park. Then an enemy caused our residual to be spent along with my health went bad at that time (the big C) and lost all. As stated, things are not of importance we get things back in time. My Mother was "always right" also. It literally killed her. (another story).

Crap. I still don't know how it's done. Go cash, set a tiny bit aside and forget about it. Live for the journey of life, not the destination. It will come soon enough. God gives us too much beauty, so enjoy the simple things. Money is only a tool, not a goal.

ep

I appreciated your comments and take on my post. I thought and still think McCain was a loser and actually he running was as good as "throwing" the election. I would rather have voted for Palin. 'Bammy is in "blitzkrieg" mode to socialize and control the "little people".

It is very possible that 'Bammy declares himself president for life. Who in the Congress or Judicial is going to say otherwise? They are all socialists and are working for themselves and their power. Not us, the people. 'Hub

[frogger]

Pessimistic? No.

Realist? Yes.

This party has not even got started yet.......

[AngelinaCatHub]

Pessimistic? No.

Realist? Yes.

This party has not even got started yet.......

Yes Frogger, that is correct. Not two years yet and look what has happened. Sure appreciate the transparent government. People (as epiphany's parents) are not realizing what's up. The young people of today who are not educated and live for the thrill of the moment were taught to be that way. Easily controlled. Just wait till the turn of the year when the new tax rate starts to hit all of us. Even the chosen people. You know, the quintessential poor. It will cost them more as well as "things" are going to be taxed not only wages (for those who still have a job). Deflation always precedes inflation. Watch as things become very cheap as no one yet has much money and stores are desperate to stay open. They lower their profit margin. Then when the fiat currency hits, and the printing press money gets out to the people, there will much money but no products available (particularly if China gets pizzed and stops importing to Walmart) so what is available will cost plenty. I've said before, the new Walmart of our future will be yard sales and barter. No taxes paid to govmint there and people will again learn how to fix things rather than replace them. (Where is your local TV repair store?).

This is going to be a cruel but firm lesson we are about to experience. 'Hub

[AbbeyA]

I think that most of us here have learned our lesson about the difficulties/financial challenges in this economy. Many of those that haven't been touched by it yet will follow in our footsteps at some point- maybe not to the point of bk, but most certainly living a cash strapped life and struggling to make the bills (but filled with too much "pride" or whatever you want to call it to admit the financial mess they are in). We'll come out on the other side much sooner than those that are just beginning to spiral down - my hope is that my family will be in the perfect position to purchase a house for a fantastic price in a few years, benefiting from another person's misfortune that happened later than mine.

I'm hanging onto my hat and waiting for the ride to really start ...

[AngelinaCatHub]

I think that most of us here have learned our lesson about the difficulties/financial challenges in this economy. Many of those that haven't been touched by it yet will follow in our footsteps at some point- maybe not to the point of bk, but most certainly living a cash strapped life and struggling to make the bills (but filled with too much "pride" or whatever you want to call it to admit the financial mess they are in). We'll come out on the other side much sooner than those that are just beginning to spiral down - my hope is that my family will be in the perfect position to purchase a house for a fantastic price in a few years, benefiting from another person's misfortune that happened later than mine.

I'm hanging onto my hat and waiting for the ride to really start ...

You sure are right on. The ride is only beginning but unfortunately, I think the in door is closed and we are committed to not backing away from the fact that those purchased by our easy money (taxes) who vote and don't understand the "bread and circuses" that caused Rome to pass, will be the almost irretrievable way out of 'Bammy's damage.

I truly fear for our Country. The voyage is only started, but the damage is not reversible.

My advice to anyone is stockpile usable but barterable stuff. Storable food, and barterable things. Money will not be of much use. It is my opinion, but I've been right, mostly for a long time. The writing on the wall is the rise of the Third Reich, or perhaps Revelations/Daniel.

This is an opinion. And until further notice and our Supreme Court, I still have the right to voice it. 'Hub

[Exployer1234]

Well for most people that have now filed BK things have to look up. For one if you are completing a chapter 7 then most of your debt is erased. Now intern that is not good for the creditors, but for the consumers who are filing it frees up money. It will take years for the economy to recover. There is no simple fix, and many of us who have filed BK will not be spending money so freely. I would much rather stock pile groceries then buy a new pair of shoes.

[AngelinaCatHub]

Well for most people that have now filed BK things have to look up. For one if you are completing a chapter 7 then most of your debt is erased. Now intern that is not good for the creditors, but for the consumers who are filing it frees up money. It will take years for the economy to recover. There is no simple fix, and many of us who have filed BK will not be spending money so freely. I would much rather stock pile groceries then buy a new pair of shoes.

Yes, you have it down. Also coffee, toilet paper, ammunition (22 long rifle) of all sorts, fishing gear, and storeable foods for long term.

Three reasons, one, you can use it. You can barter it, you can beat todays prices and still eat it later if all goes well. It is a win/win situation. Better than buying gold to hedge. Gold is hard to measure value for how many cans of beans. Next you cannot digest it well. It leaves a heavy feeling of emptiness in your stomach. It is of no value if someone cannot afford to buy it for jewelry no one can afford to buy.

Hording 20 dollar bills. Wonderful and the full faith and credit of the United States Government. LOLOLOL!!!!

They burn poorly and give off no heat.

It is cheap insurance and in any event, will not go to waste and will always cost less than the future. Purchase things you would use or could barter. Things are not going up and we are being lied to. Just look around you at the abandoned houses.

My opinion. 'Hub

[banca rotta]

I truly fear for our Country. The voyage is only started, but the damage is not reversible.

It's certainly reversible. We will come out of the nightmare and rebuild. I am positive about that.

I do however feel it won't me in our lifetime.

We survived the civil war, depressions, 2 world wars. We are still here.

I don't think we will see the other side of this for 20 years though.

[AbbeyA]

Well for most people that have now filed BK things have to look up. For one if you are completing a chapter 7 then most of your debt is erased. Now intern that is not good for the creditors, but for the consumers who are filing it frees up money. It will take years for the economy to recover. There is no simple fix, and many of us who have filed BK will not be spending money so freely. I would much rather stock pile groceries then buy a new pair of shoes.

Oh, but a girl loves her shoes ... : )

Just kidding, I started couponing a couple of years ago and can't believe the amount of money I've saved on EVERYTHING I purchase - from groceries to toiletries to diapers and wipes etc... After collecting a stockpile of items that are non-perishable, our weekly grocery budget is about $100. We have 4 young children and 2 adults in the home. This includes everything, from cleaning supplies to food, fruits & veggies for the week and whatever items I can stockpile that week while paying tax only or pennies on the dollar. It's a fantastic way to live - lots of work and time but incredibly worth it.

[Logan]

I am assuming that the vast majority of us here are going through or have been through a bankruptcy. Most of us have been severely affected by the awful economy -- since you have been so negatively affected by the economy, are you more pessimistic about the economy/recovery than people you know that haven't been affected?

I am - I absolutely believe that the economy will continue to tank and that this will eventually be declared a depression.

I have family members and friends who haven't really been affected thus far (no pay cuts or job losses for them), and they seem to be in denial about how bad it really is. Just curious about your thoughts ...

AbbeyA,

Back before the recession was known I had dinner guests over from Canada and we were talking politics, economy, etc...
I made a comment that the economy was horrible but for some reason nobody sees it...the dow was at 12K, the news and cnbc were talking about how everything was great and many analyst were bullish on the economy.

Today I believe we are in the opposite position. I believe the recession is over and things are improving but as with the beginning recession, nobody sees it. The news channels are fixated on how bad everything is and it scares the crap out of everybody. FOX news is the worst right now because they have an agenda to get Republicans voted in this november and they constantly talk about how bad everything is right now. My buddy who is an avid FOX news watcher is depressed every time he watches because all they talk about is double dip recession etc...

I work for a cyclical business that is usually leader into a recession and a leader out of the recession. For the 1st time in years my industry is posting big profits and we are busier than I have seen it in 10 years. Things are improving and hiring is happening again!

Perception is 90% of reality. If you walk into a bar feeling confident and acting like you are the best looking one in the bar people will feel that. If you walk into a bar and you are nervous and unhappy then people will feel that too.

Turn off the TV...think positive....if you're unemployed dig deep and figure something out (I've been there more than most)....everything will be ok.

Logan


PS...My wifes family lives in Germany...Arguably the strongest economy in the world...and they have high taxes..Germans live well and the country thrives even though they pay high taxes...I am NOT advocating higher taxes but it just shows that if our taxes go up we will survive.....

Life is good....

[helpmeout]

The one thing that I learned in my economic classes is that there will always be someone who predicts doom and gloom and that there will always be someone who will predict a rosy future. The truth is somewhere in between.

We are in a slow recovery, despite what some kool-aid drinkers think about us being in a depression, one that could get tanked by people being overly pessimistic.

Given the forum that we are posting on, it doesn't surprise me that there is a lot of pessimism here and doom and gloom.

But I'm just not seeing what they are. The company that I work for has expanded a lot in the last 2 years and is showing a healthy profit. And we are looking to expand even more. Will there still be businesses who go out of business? Yes, but there were businesses who go out of business even when we are in a fast upswing instead of the slow one we are in now.