I propose a new social contract

[freefall]

Everyone is guaranteed a job that earns enough to afford a modest home and car. Everyone is gets free medical. Everyone gets free life insurance based on income levels. No one is homeless or uncared for unless they want to be, but no one has to be. And in every domestic sanctuary (AKA "The projects") there are uncorrupted federal police to ensure no gangs, prostitutes, drugs, or booming drive-bys (not by guns or stereo systems). No fear.

In exchange: everyone must be employed who is under sixty-five and not disabled. One parent raising children would be considered employment.

The state would own the major means of production and private enterprise would be limited to the size of "mom and pop" shops--no matter what that was, book publishing or gas stations.

Individual debt would have a mandatory ceiling, and it would be a pretty low one. Drug addictions could require mandatory incarceration or hospitalization until cured. The death penalty would be expanded to various henous crimes and only one appeal allowed.

College would be guaranteed, but only to those who score sufficiently for the college programs they want to go into. But everyone would receive training for a job, and they could apply for retraining if they wanted to switch.

Doe this all sound harsh? Get used to it. Freedom--American Style--doesn't work with the population of our country or the world. Capitalism doesn't work in the information age. If you want to keep the good 'ol constitution, then you're going to have to go back to 70% of people owning farms, no central bank, and about ten million Americans. Then you have to have freedom--the government wouldn't be powerful enough to take care of anyone.

I say it's time to learn from past mistakes in capitalism, socialism, and communism and build something new that works. Something that's good for people individually and for the state of people generally.

[AlmostAmos]

Uh, can I opt out?

[WhatMoney]

Your new "social contract" sounds like Israeli socialism with a little old fashioned communism mixed in. You forgot about taxes. Does anyone pay taxes? Do we still have a military? Who funds them? And what country is going to be the Big Daddy to the USA to give us enough foreign aid to afford your new world?

[MSbklawyer]

Uh, can I opt out?

Me too. Cause I know it's just a matter of time until one of our Baptists Ladies gets in office and uses the "no drugs" policy to come after my Jack Daniels. Then they'll use the "no prostitution" clause to outlaw lap dances in the titty bars up in Jackson. What kind of life would that be?

[newbie2]

If what you wrote wasn't so darned comical I would be scared. And packing..

[ryan]

...are you serious or just trying to bait readers?
anyway....heres a new flash: ITS BEEN TRIED AND FAILED.

No set of benefits and guarantees in life like you've proposed will EVER work. There is no incentive in what you're proposing for anyone to be productive or to be creative.

...and the tax rate would need to be upwards of 90%+... and it would take armed IRS agents on every block to collect it.

Any government that even attempts to provide what you're talking about must also be totalitarian....thats the consequences of providing all these 'goodies'.

[frogger]

The only question I need to have answered is:

"Who is going to run this utopia"

Then, and only then, will your true agenda be known.

(And MS has got a valid point. What about our Jack Daniels and tittie bars?)

[freefall]

...are you serious or just trying to bait readers?
anyway....heres a new flash: ITS BEEN TRIED AND FAILED.

"Bait"? I like to call it spurring discussion. And I agree that what I scribbled last night shouldn't be immediately implemented as national policy, but is there no other way of maintaining a civilization? In capitalism, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. The only caveat to that is when we make a big bubble of debt, then it breaks and the rich get richer while the poor get even poorer as a result. It's not going to take too many more cycles of that before we're back to Kings, Queens and Nobles and everyone else is a serf.

I agree that Soviet-style communism is not the answer. I agree that European socialism is not the answer, but is there no other way? Can't we figure out what doesn't work and make something work?

Everyone thinks it would be so horrible to live in a society where you can't get booze and titty bars on demand. I'm not suggesting those be done away with, but people have to be controlled to some extent. Freedom only comes when the government is too weak to care for the people. Freedom is forced on people the same way as communism is forced on people. All freedom means is you're free to do what you want because there's no one around to stop you. And freedom, itself, brings with it tremendous suffering.


No set of benefits and guarantees in life like you've proposed will EVER work. There is no incentive in what you're proposing for anyone to be productive or to be creative.

Oh yes there is. I remember an interview on television with a soviet family. You work hard in school so you can be sent to college and get a good job that's better than the next guy. You will work. But you will either be an engineer or a ditch digger. Wait! That sounds just like America. In fact, in the U.S. You either work or you suffer physically from no healthcare, no roof or safety, no food, the split up of your family, etc. I'd rather face prison, frankly.

...and the tax rate would need to be upwards of 90%+... and it would take armed IRS agents on every block to collect it.

First off, you wouldn't even need an IRS, per say. Not for collecting it. It would come right out of your check. And tax rates don't really matter, they get absorbed into the price of things. Besides, the government would own, say the sugar plants. So you would be buying sugar from the government, and the government would be shipping the rest to other countries for sale.

Any government that even attempts to provide what you're talking about must also be totalitarian....thats the consequences of providing all these 'goodies'.

I agree. But how can it be any different? When have we ever really been free in the U.S.? I have city ordanances that will put me in jail if I disobey, then I have County masters who will lock me up for breaking their rules. Then I have state laws that can put me away if I don't obey, then I have the Federal government to lock me up if I don't obey, and if I get passed all of those, I can expect to be hauled off to a secret prison outside the U.S. where I can be tortured.

I'm not a criminal, but think about how close any of us are to being arrested and imprisoned, losing our jobs, our families being made homeless and begging at charity food banks. To quote Tears for Fears: "The newspaper says you're free to choose; there's egg on you face and mud on your shoes. One of these days you're going to call it the blues."

In 1984, Big Brother was utter totalitarianism without any regard for the individual or their suffering. Granted, that's no good. Soviet communism was no good. Britain is going bankrupt just like us. But isn't there another way? Can't we invent anything any better with all our college education and privilage? Can't we do better than India or the Soviet Union?

[freefall]

The only question I need to have answered is:

"Who is going to run this utopia"

Then, and only then, will your true agenda be known.

(And MS has got a valid point. What about our Jack Daniels and tittie bars?)

Democratic elections, I suppose. Now, our elected officials are bound by a constitution, then they would simply be bound by a different one.

As for the booze and tits, why would those end? I had a dream I was in Amsterdam last night. Granted I was getting laid by a twenty-three year old at a Unitarian reading room, but that's neither here nor there (unfortunate pun intended).

My point is, those kind of freedoms--titty bars and booze--the governments of the world allow freely. It keeps the masses quiet and content. Let's see, as it is, right now I go to work (and I have to work or suffer tremendously). I come home, we (the wife and I) do martial arts and work in the yard. We have some kind of alcohol almost ever night, and we're worried about the natural disaster in the gulf. We were both in the Military for a long time, and my wife retired, so we can go out to the base and get free medical whenever we need it, and she gets a government check. I work at a low-level professional job where I sit at work and do basically nothing all day--but I'm "responsible," and by law, they have to have someone with my license there.

I might as well be living outside Chernobyl in the old Soviet Union. What would be the difference?

[WhatMoney]

freefall,
I think you've confused the booze and titty bar crowd.

[ryan]

FREEFALL: I shouldn't even bother replying to your "manifesto" or post but I can't resist.
Your whole theory is so out of touch with reality its funny. That's why I think its 'bait'.

Anyway, If you really want this bizarre society you envision, its exists RIGHT NOW, only 90 miles off the coast of Florida.....

its called CUBA.


All a citizens decisions are made for him or her from cradle to grave. The Castro government takes care of everything. You get 'free' education. Government supplied housing. You will wait 6-8 years to get a 350 sq ft government apartment with concrete block walls. That education will earn you $90 a month as a DOCTOR.

They have elections in Cuba - Castro wins 98-99% of the vote every time. No need for pollsters in Cuba. They have a constitution in Cuba. It is an absurd fiction.

Oh, and they have prisons for political dissidents. All your costs are covered there as well. TENS OF THOUSANDS are jailed for expressing any anti-government speech.

If your posts here on this forum were made in Cuba, you would be a marked man.
(Your neighbors, to make extra money, would turn you in.)

You just do not understand what freedom is. ...or what we all have here in America.

[banca rotta]

I guess freefall is president obama and he came here to avoid the distractions of less important things like being president. He's trying to sell his agenda.

Anyway welcome to the forum mr prez!

The only response I have to say about your agenda is what we have is not free market capitalism, so it really didn't fail as you say it did.

If we really had free market capitalism we wouldn't have half of the current problems.

Good day mr. prez. Go "kick some ass"!

[freefall]

You just do not understand what freedom is. ...or what we all have here in America.

Oh yes I do, because I've traveled. I've been to a "totalitarian" country with brutal human rights and 0 women's rights (Saudi Arabia), spent a year there in the 80's. Guess what? People go to malls, they go to work, and they drive around in their cars. They take their kids to sports. They have dreams and ambitions. Just like us. They are happy sometimes and sad sometimes, just like us. They have no freedom. None at all, and I can't tell the difference between there or here, except for the language and the temperature.

Watch the movie Fahrenheit 9/11, and watch the scene just before the U.S. starts its horrific bombing of Iraq who had nothing to do with 9/11. The people are normal and doing normal things.

Try being a political dissident here. Watch what happens, and I'm not talking about being a democrat when the republicans are in office. I'm talking about advocating the overthrow of the U.S. Government by military coup. It's called treason. Watch how much freedom you have. Oh, and let's not forget we are the country who thinks it's only good and proper to torture prisoners of war. Vietnam? No. America.

We only have freedom so long as our choices don't matter. Just like everywhere else in the world.

I'm not saying communism is the answer. I'm saying we can think of something better if we try.

[frogger]

Democratic elections, I suppose. Now, our elected officials are bound by a constitution, then they would simply be bound by a different one.

Herein lies your confusion. Our elected officials are no longer bound by a constitution, for they run roughshod all over it.

And as to having a Democratic country? That is mob rule. No Democratic country has ever survived.

[backtoschool]

Oh yes I do, because I've traveled. I've been to a "totalitarian" country with brutal human rights and 0 women's rights (Saudi Arabia), spent a year there in the 80's. Guess what? People go to malls, they go to work, and they drive around in their cars. They take their kids to sports. They have dreams and ambitions. Just like us. They are happy sometimes and sad sometimes, just like us. They have no freedom. None at all, and I can't tell the difference between there or here, except for the language and the temperature.

Watch the movie Fahrenheit 9/11, and watch the scene just before the U.S. starts its horrific bombing of Iraq who had nothing to do with 9/11. The people are normal and doing normal things.

Try being a political dissident here. Watch what happens, and I'm not talking about being a democrat when the republicans are in office. I'm talking about advocating the overthrow of the U.S. Government by military coup. It's called treason. Watch how much freedom you have. Oh, and let's not forget we are the country who thinks it's only good and proper to torture prisoners of war. Vietnam? No. America.

We only have freedom so long as our choices don't matter. Just like everywhere else in the world.

I'm not saying communism is the answer. I'm saying we can think of something better if we try.

I don't think anyone is debating the fact that humans, love, laugh, cry, sleep, procreate, amuse themselves, win, lose, and try to carry on regardless of what type of government they live under.

Planned economies do not work. Period. There are no examples of successful planned economies. Ever. China could be brought up, but they are much more free market than they are planned in the sense that you mean planned. China's economy is similar to the way ours was 100 years ago, only with a totalitarian government in charge, and many many more people to feed.

Ask any woman, artist, media figure, writer, journalist if there is a difference between here and Saudi Arabia and I think you will get a resounding "yes" as your answer.

All governments punish treason. The type of total freedom you are talking about is simply a desire to have anarchy, which simply means that those with the largest guns will have the power. Take a look at Sudan or other African nations in a state of anarchy if you want to see what happens when there is no order.

We can either increase our National debt to pay for the lifestyle you want (which will eventually collapse our economy much like the late seventies only much much worse) or we can cut back and acknowledge that a whole generation or more are going to have a reduced standard of living in this country.

There are no easy answers.