Have we been fooled again? Oh Bamn it all.

[dscurlock]

In theory you are correct but reality says otherwise. If the market reigned my 150K a year job would be outsourced to the Chinese so that the managers and the shareholders would become rich and leave the rest of us with nothing.

There is a reason why the rich are getting richer and the middle class are getting poorer in this country and most of it has to do with the free market.

Logan

BTW....I used to agree with you but working for a fortune 500 company and seen what the managers take and the safety shortcuts made so that the managers can take have convinced me otherwise!

My wife just lost her $100k/year job due to a merger, and then some...this is a fairly good-size US drug company, and they are outsourcing their billing to india...the funny thing is even their own employees do not even know this, they are slowing cutting US jobs so they can save a buck by doing business overseas...she was fired because she had respect, and was very good at her job, so if you fire the best, you can put fear into everyone else, meaning, if we can fire the best, we can fire anyone...he was also threated by her because she was good at her job...so yes, our US based employers are giving our jobs away to those overseas right under our noses...in the short term, it may have been good for him to do this, but firing your best of the best employees will not do any company any good in the long run, they will just suffer in the end by making these changes.

[ryan]

If free market reined, and the tree huggers chained, this Country would have nearly free abundance of fuel for pennies. 'Hub

Right on!....I understand there is many years worth of oil shale which is convertible to crude oil. The technology already exists to do this and the jobs created by this would be HUGE.

[Flamingo]

Eventually it will all run out or be impossible to get and then what? Look at what is belching out daily in the Gulf that will never be used but is just killing fish, marine life (some endangered species also), wildlife, fouling shores and wetlands not to mention destroying jobs for thousands and will take decades for nature to recover if it ever can. And yet the belching continues cannot yet be stopped...what if it can't at all? How many barrels of oil are estimated to be at that site that could all leak out?

[WhatMoney]

Right on!....I understand there is many years worth of oil shale which is convertible to crude oil. The technology already exists to do this and the jobs created by this would be HUGE.

Actually no, Hub is not right on and neither are you. The oil mined from shale rock costs more to extract - it is not "available for pennies" as you seem to think. As I said before - you can have all the oil reserves in the US you want if you are willing to pay $100+/bbl. The only thing preventing these reserves from being tapped is the price of oil. And there are already many jobs being created in the ND oil regions today - they can't find enough skilled workers.

Read the article I posted again - stupid catch phrases and attacks on "treehuggers" have nothing to do with the extraction of oil.

I think they should add another 10,000 offshore oil rigs off the eastern coast of Florida. They already have the permits to drill. As you can see from recent events, offshore oil drilling is the ultimate clean safe solution to our oil problem.

[ryan]

My responses are in BOLD:

Actually no, Hub is not right on and neither are you. The oil mined from shale rock costs more to extract - it is not "available for pennies" as you seem to think.

Where exactly did I ever say it was available for PENNIES????
Please show me that. I do know it will be expensive.

As I said before - you can have all the oil reserves in the US you want if you are willing to pay $100+/bbl. The only thing preventing these reserves from being tapped is the price of oil.

So what. Oil was $80 a barrel just two weeks ago. A year or so ago it was $140 a barrel. We were paying it. I don;t see what point that makes

And there are already many jobs being created in the ND oil regions today - they can't find enough skilled workers.
So they'll look harder or pay more.

Read the article I posted again - stupid catch phrases and attacks on "treehuggers" have nothing to do with the extraction of oil.
Have no idea what you are talking about- I attacked no one, tho you are apparently in 'attack mode'.

I think they should add another 10,000 offshore oil rigs off the eastern coast of Florida. They already have the permits to drill. As you can see from recent events, offshore oil drilling is the ultimate clean safe solution to our oil problem.

Off shore wells are as safe as any other technology. All energy technologies have risks. And accidents do happen unfortunately. So since we had an accident, should we replace all offshore wells with windmills and run our cars that way??

[Meatstick]

Arguing with the looney left is rather pointless.

[WhatMoney]

ryan,

You responded to the Hub quote below with the words Right On!
That means to me that you agreed with Hub's claim that we would have "nearly free abundance of fuel for pennies." and his comments about "tree huggers". This is just right wing propaganda talk with no substance. Explain to me where "tree huggers", which must be Hub's derogatory term for environmentalists, have prevented the extraction of oil from oil shale in ND.

When I hear silly comments I have the right to respond to them. I am glad you basically agree with me about the cost of drilling and jobs in ND. My point was about the COST of mining oil shale, not any problems with the extraction. ND economy needs the jobs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelinaCatHub View Post
If free market reined, and the tree huggers chained, this Country would have nearly free abundance of fuel for pennies. 'Hub

Off shore wells are as safe as any other technology. All energy technologies have risks.

But when there is an accident with off shore wells, consider the damage potential. This present spill may destroy sea life, and all the occupations tied to it for many years in the Gulf coast. Tell the fishermen in La and AL and Florida how safe offshore drilling is. Maybe they can all find jobs now mining oil shale in ND.

BTW, Explain to me the potential of damage if a wind turbine fails.

[ryan]

ryan, But when there is an accident with off shore wells, consider the damage potential. This present spill may destroy sea life, and all the occupaitons tied to it for many years in the Gulf coast. Tell the fishermen in La and AL and Florida how safe offshore drilling is. Maybe they can all find jobs now mining oil shale in ND.

Explain to me the potential of damage if a wind turbine fails.

I thought you were responding to me.... anyway,

I am as sick over the oil spill as you or anyone who loves nature and beaches.
My favorite vacation spot is in the path of the slick, and I can see what it may do to the fishing economy, etc. It is terrible.

However, if we as a nation react emotionally to a crisis like this, we may do more harm to our country than the accident itself does.

Example: Because of one event (3 Mile Island) we essentially stopped all nuclear plant construction in this country. Was that a smart move, long term? I don;t think so.

Meanwhile other countries like France continued building nuclear plants and now get most of their electricity from them.

I'm not an energy expert by any stretch, but I do read up on these problems.
Off shore drilling is partly a response to anti-drilling forces who make it impossible to drill inland. We have many years of oil underground to be tapped. What are we to do? Just leave it there and buy even more from the Saudi's?

You're right , a single wind turbine can't do as much damage as a large oil slick. But, a few mishaps can make windmills be legislated out of business quicker than you think.

For instance, as these wind farms grow, what happens when a commercial jet in weather, runs into one? ...200 passengers die. Now tell me how eager communities will be to erect more windmills. Heck, most towns now don't want them. (read about the noise and the threat to birds) All I'm saying is every technology has enormous drawbacks.

If I had the answers, I'd sell it for millions and get out of debt :-)

[WhatMoney]

I thought you were responding to me.... anyway,
For instance, as these wind farms grow, what happens when a commercial jet in weather, runs into one? ...200 passengers die. Now tell me how eager communities will be to erect more windmills. Heck, most towns now don't want them. (read about the noise and the threat to birds) All I'm saying is every technology has enormous drawbacks.

Yeah, birds are at risk. So are those dieing oil-soaked pelicans in La.
I think you need a better example of low flying aircraft than a commercial jetliner. Anything sticking up more than 325' must have lights and all such structures are registered with the CAA. And wind farms are not built in the landing zone of airports. Any plane that would hit a wind turbine tower is so off course and so low that it will crash anyway. How often have you heard of airliners crashing into radio and TV towers? There are hundreds of thousands of them scattered throughout the country. Now HERE is something to hang your hat on about those wind turbines. Killing Santa would not be good PR for wind power:

[frogger]

The one thing that everyone is leaving out of the picture is the capability to refine this oil. It has been years and years since a new refinery has been built, and the ones that we have left are running 95%+ of capacity.

This too, is an accident waiting to happen, for they are running in a manner in which they were not intended to run. They need downtime for maintenance, upgrades, and repairs, which is sorely lacking.

So, bring in all the crude you want. It doesn't change a thing until we have the ability to use it.