You thougts.. how long before business/banking wakes up

[momisery]

I do not know now many more months people have left in unemployment. Nor do I know how many will be homeless or foreclosed upon this year, 2010. But business expects people to drive this economy, and banks don't want to be banks they want to invest in wall street now. At what point will those that are losing everything, and then run our of benefits lose their sanity? Seriously, it happened in the great depression a lot of suicides, robberies, and murders. The only thing holding it off now is that people have some money coming in. At some point they will lose that, the masses will lose it.. Will we have riots in the streets? Should bankers and businesses that export jobs be worried about their futures?? What do you think?

[frogger]

Small business is awake. Small business people are in pain.

The large corporations aren't too concerned because big business and big gubmint are one and the same. They know that the printing presses can ship some money their way.

All big business are now "too big to fail".

You sure didn't see the chairman of GM or AIG looking for advice did ya?

[DeadManCrawling]

I believe spring will be a bloodbath for employees. I don't see how it can be any other way. The huge amounts of dollars flooding the market suggest inflation will be a major concern. Many respected economists predict a dollar crash at any time. No one needs me to tell them the country is in grave trouble.

The remarkable aspect, if there is one, is the blindness of the American people. Amid the outrage over Wall Street salaries, and the resounding chorus that "SOMETHING is wrong", there seems to be a willingness to follow our government further into the chasm. In short, people seem to be saying, "Well, it's bad. But it will get better, soon." No one has any basis to support this belief, but it persists among an awful lot of people. And history has shown us that the people at the top are about as knowledgeable as we are. Not at all.

I am a bit flummoxed, myself, as to how to best protect my financial assets. Buy GOLD! is the cry heard in many quarters, but if it gets as bad as I think, that, too, is a useless strategy. You cannot eat gold.

So, I am sitting on dollars, even now, knowing they may lose a huge amount of value at any moment. I HAVE been preparing in other ways, getting ready to plant a garden for the first time in years, investing in a friend's chicken start-up operation and so on. Things that MAY help in the event of total collapse. These preparations, mostly, require the use of dollars. Perhaps this is the best choice among many poor choices.

I suppose I will watch the gold markets and silver markets and may put some money there, if they come back out of the stratosphere. But this, in my eyes, is not an investment vehicle. It would be as a hedge against inflation, a savings account almost. And I would not entertain it until my preparations for my family are in better order.

Not enough money or time. With luck, and God's grace, I hope to be proven wrong. But we have never seen a potentially more cataclysmic storm on our horizon, and I lack confidence in policy makers.

Best,

-dmc

[OweTooMuch]

DeadManCrawling - Your last post made me shiver. I believe it will get worse and I am hoping it won't. I am on the fence regarding filing bankruptcy and letting my house go (100K of negative equity and in a declining area). I think it would be the best option ................. but the other part of me says stay in the house and what if California housing comes back sooner than 10 years). My husband may be unemployed next month so that may be the deciding factor anyway. I am so torn. But the other part of me says get it over and done with so you can position your family to survive if and when things do get worse.

[DeadManCrawling]

OweTooMuch,

I agree. It is incredible to think that intelligent, reasonable people like you and I are considering these scenarios seriously. But it is vital, I think. The simple fact that so many people recognize these truths, and government plays the "everything is okay here, move along" game, tells me we may be in for one helluva whollop.

My preparations are far from complete-only begun, in fact-but I already feel better. If I am wrong, and I sure could be-then nothing is lost for my family. But if that sinking feeling in my soul is correct, we may be able to survive.

I am afraid the nation is teetering on total financial collapse. Possible government collapse should Treasury default on foreign debts based on a dollar crash. What happens then is anyone's guess. I think we will survive, as a nation, but I think we will live in very dark times for a decade or so. The possibility, in my eyes, is worth planning for.

When the New York Times is advocating masses of people walk away from mortgages, as they are (See BK News section of this forum), things have really gotten that dire.

I used to laugh, LAUGH, at people who suggested things like stockpiling food and buying guns. Now, I am one of them, I guess. But at the time I laughed at them, we were not confronting ANYTHING even close to the scale of disaster that might now be approaching.

I do not mean to sound alarmist, far from it. But I have spent so many hours reading and trying to learn about our system and the impact of other nations on it, that it is hard to reach any other conclusion.

We may see capitalism (at least as we know it) fail as miserably as communism did in the USSR and Eastern Europe. There will be recovery, I think, as there was there. However, they went through a decade and a half of utter hell. And they are still not done.

I think the "golden" period of UNBRIDLED capitalism may be at an end.

Others are probably laughing at me, and my posts, and that is fine. If it turns out I am preparing for nothing at all, I will be more relieved than anyone.

What it comes down to in a nutshell is this: The USA cannot write unlimited checks to the world for our bad debts and mistakes, and not expect SOME repercussions. Just like you and I could not charge a million bucks on credit cards and not expect someone to want a payback. That payback, for the USA, may be very soon.

Regardless of what you think of my views, here is a link that can help YOU understand where my views originate. You can also see this same info on Wikipedia by searching for Greenspan-Guidotti rule . This is a formula, believed by nearly every economist in the world, that suggests we are headed for financial disaster. It explains it in terms anyone can easily understand, and verify for themselves.

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article15449.html

Best,

-dmc

[momisery]

I have always been a bit self sufficent.. but I would be a liar if I did not say I am more so now, and reading everything I can get my hands on to become more so. I do not really agree that the future will be grim for everyone. But I do think it will be based on lower incomes for most, and probably a lot more dying in the streets and crime. I believe there will be a lot of people who are losing their jobs that will never get good paying jobs again. This of course will be a spiral effect for those who are working. Wage will drop, there will be fewer jobs, heck we have tellers that have financial degrees right now and that trend will continue. We may have a whole generation, those between say 45 and 65 that will not find a good paying job ever again. How can they get retrained when they can't afford to? And who would hire them if they did unless there are no 30 year olds to hire. So, grim for some, but business and government are both smart enough to know if the 'masses" are without jobs they will revolt. So, little by little they will tick away at our possesions making them worthless, at our incomes making it worthless, sort of throw away people and society.

[FLBK7]

I have always been a bit self sufficent.. but I would be a liar if I did not say I am more so now, and reading everything I can get my hands on to become more so. I do not really agree that the future will be grim for everyone. But I do think it will be based on lower incomes for most, and probably a lot more dying in the streets and crime. I believe there will be a lot of people who are losing their jobs that will never get good paying jobs again. This of course will be a spiral effect for those who are working. Wage will drop, there will be fewer jobs, heck we have tellers that have financial degrees right now and that trend will continue. We may have a whole generation, those between say 45 and 65 that will not find a good paying job ever again. How can they get retrained when they can't afford to? And who would hire them if they did unless there are no 30 year olds to hire. So, grim for some, but business and government are both smart enough to know if the 'masses" are without jobs they will revolt. So, little by little they will tick away at our possesions making them worthless, at our incomes making it worthless, sort of throw away people and society.

You know, one of the main reasons why I filed BK7 back in 2004 was, a job of many years lost in a 1997 corporate merger. I was over 50 and making $84K, so of course I was one of the first to get the ax.

After several years of working 2 low-paying, no-benefit jobs I finally found one with at least a decent salary and good benefits. The salary? $33K to start. That's a $51K pay cut, folks. Today, 13 years after losing that career job, I am still $2K short of making what I made back then.

We are seeing and will continue to see the above scenario although this time around the reason won't be "greedy corporate mergers."

[momisery]

This is happening to a lot of the late boomers. And the other day it was stated that we have not made much income since the late 1970's. So if you graduated in 1968, you got a couple years of taking night classes and working in min. wage jobs, then on to a bit better and then on to the gas crisis of 1978-1979 and the lay offs that followed. That is very few years of good income for the new graduates to save a dime. Since then we have lost our pensions and healthcare, and savings... I do feel a lot of those in these age brackets will not be as prepared for retirement and there will be a lot more on benefits and food stamps.

[banca rotta]

DeadManCrawling - Your last post made me shiver. I believe it will get worse and I am hoping it won't. I am on the fence regarding filing bankruptcy and letting my house go (100K of negative equity and in a declining area). I think it would be the best option ................. but the other part of me says stay in the house and what if California housing comes back sooner than 10 years). My husband may be unemployed next month so that may be the deciding factor anyway. I am so torn. But the other part of me says get it over and done with so you can position your family to survive if and when things do get worse.

Smart move!!!

[OweTooMuch]

DeadManCrawling - Thank you for the information and the link to that article. I am researching everything and do appreciate your input. Please post more as you find it. Knowledge is power .

[anykey]

Gold and silver are a must. I urge all to obtain some NOW.

This is a total wipe out of the middle class. If you get any type of government check- you wont. (after 3 years)

If you can sell some stuff to get some silver then DO IT!

ALso it does not matter what your credit rating is. This is a total wipe out of the masses.