Is BK good for the economy?

[sigferl]

Thanks for your post lenna. I enjoy a intelligent discussion.

Your example is the exception and not the norm, just read the posts on this forum. IMHO BK abuse is 95%.

Good insurance(health/car/life/auto) is very important part of financial security. I know someone whose teenage son had very serious illness(aplastic anemia) and spent weeks in the hospital but it did not cause financial hardship because of good insurance and lots of emergency savings.

I do not make people feel bad, I encourge them by telling them that they have the ability to solve their financial problems themselves with hard work and frugal living and avoid BK.

People tend to take my advice wrong and call it mean when it really is tough love which I think is the best type of advice. They say, a sign of a good friend is when they can give you unpleasant advice.

When the going get tough the tough get going.

Trouble is, Sigferl you did say something in your earlier post about how medical insurance would protect you from BK, which is not always so by any means as my friend's story clearly shows.

Also, who are you to decide what a "non severe" medical disability is? I think Dr's decide that one, oh and they charge accordingly!

"Hard work" will not save you from BK either, Sigferl. I work a good 50 hours a week.

Did I make some bad choices? Absolutely! Do I /have I lived a lavish lifestyle? Nope.

Mistakes, yes but Sigferl let s/he who is without sin cast the first stone. I am very sure you are not without fault because you are human and we are all flawed.

Also, just what in you is fed by coming to a BK board and putting people down who are filing BK? Why do you need that shot in the arm to make you feel better and superior? If you want to outlaw BK, (accept for whatever you deem a "severe medical disability, you being an expert and all!) why don;t you go become an anti-BK activist where it counts? What you are doing here is just feeding your own ego by attempting to tear down others, which is pretty pathetic, actually.

[falken]

I would love to donate money to worthwhile organizations like cancer research but so much of my money goes to pay for BK and bailouts that I have none left over. Why am I forced to pay for BK and not allowed to spend my money how I wish.

You really have no grasp on how the monetary systems works, do you?

[junker]

isnt whats really important here...bk is definitely good for the economy of the person filing the bk..the consumer....if i cant pay my bills for WHATEVER REASON....i really dont care if GM flops or AIG..or SIGERFL..flops they are not even remotely a concern...sigerfl would have you think its a moral obligation...it is NOT...its a business decision...and the courts must agree..because they let you file EVERY 8 years or so...they dont CARE if you have filed 5 times before..... its a BUSINESS DECISION.....one thing we can all be grateful for....SIG and his Libertarians are NOT in power......and his opinion is no more relavant than mine is....

[blankslate]

Thanks for your post CT. Easy, I WANT ALL MY MONEY BACK. Is it not obvious? Repay me my hard-earned money and stop abusing BK.

Since money does not grow on trees, people like me have paid for all BKs and I want my money back from all the people that abuse BK(95%). Please send me a check for the cost of your BK, that will make us even.

You've come collectin' in the wrong forum. These people are broke! Better go knock on the doors of the AIG, Lehman Bros, and the rest of Wall Street if you want that money back. Better yet, go stake out the resort their CEO's took a $250k retreat to and ask for a refund.

Good luck and please let us know how that goes.

[StartingOver08]

Sigferl's real reason he stalks this forum comes out now...he is looking to capitalize on everyone's misfortune by attempting to collect on discharged debt! Interesting.....wonder if he is a JDB or a CA in real life.....

[sigferl]

Thanks for your post j. Thanks for being honest but I respectfully disagree completely.

If BK is a business decision then why do you ignore the impact of BK on others?

Like you say, BK is selfish and you are only concerned about your self.

Welfare queens are legal and very numerous but that does not make it right and that is why BIll Clinton tried to reform welfare.

Why did the reform BK if the government really wants more personal BK?

Freedom is not free.

isnt whats really important here...bk is definitely good for the economy of the person filing the bk..the consumer....if i cant pay my bills for WHATEVER REASON....i really dont care if GM flops or AIG..or SIGERFL..flops they are not even remotely a concern...sigerfl would have you think its a moral obligation...it is NOT...its a business decision...and the courts must agree..because they let you file EVERY 8 years or so...they dont CARE if you have filed 5 times before..... its a BUSINESS DECISION.....one thing we can all be grateful for....SIG and his Libertarians are NOT in power......and his opinion is no more relavant than mine is....

[sigferl]

Thanks for your post SO. I am definetly crazy, I actually want to spend my money my way using my best judgement and not yours.

The majority of Americians want the BK/bailout money back in their wallet.

Computer programmer, what is your career field?

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Sigferl's real reason he stalks this forum comes out now...he is looking to capitalize on everyone's misfortune by attempting to collect on discharged debt! Interesting.....wonder if he is a JDB or a CA in real life.....

[momisery]

Okay.. so we are 60, lay off after lay off has taken our savings and so have businesses who went BK that we worked for. The last straw was a house that was a total nightmare from the start, over appraised prior to the downturn, could not sell it prior to either and the realtors all told us we paid too much. Then we had to move due to violence in our "great increasing stable" neighborhood or get knifed again. The new area is smaller and the down turn hit really hard. Two house payments as the tennat moved out, and one job, spent all the savings and hubby gets sick. out of pocket is 4000.00 on one income.. We live in a 1200 sq foot house and our furniture is garage sale. We do not smoke or drink we are not wasteful. The truth is bad things happen to good people. And the other truth is even if I wasted my last dime on a girlee bar or gambling why should I play fair when business does not? Business lies and cheats like Wells Fargo did to us, and we are told that we should not complain and be responsible for our own mistakes?? OUR mistakes?? Really???? I think not.. We are being ripped off is the truth.. And we do not feel guilty at all. At age 60, after working two jobs or going to school while I was working for 30 of my 60 years I do not feel bad at all. Where I work I have to tell the truth, at home I tell the truth.. why can businesses lie and mislead you and you are expected to be moral??? Why??? Just becauase???? Crazy is what your statements are to those of us who know better.

[CompTweaker]

Thanks for your post CT. Easy, I WANT ALL MY MONEY BACK. Is it not obvious? Repay me my hard-earned money and stop abusing BK.

Since money does not grow on trees, people like me have paid for all BKs and I want my money back from all the people that abuse BK(95%). Please send me a check for the cost of your BK, that will make us even.

I would love to donate money to worthwhile organizations like cancer research but so much of my money goes to pay for BK and bailouts that I have none left over. Why am I forced to pay for BK and not allowed to spend my money how I wish.

God Bless America.

You shock and awe me with your intellect...since you enjoy intelligent conversation so much....

So, wise guy, explain to me how you figure I've abused BK and please figure out how you should be repaid your hard earned money by me. I mean really think about it and explain how anyone filing for BK took money straight from you, especially me. Now it sounds like you have a beef with the Govt. And if thats the case, please feel free to waste as much time crying your river of tears to them as you've so eloquently represented here.....then get back to us with your results.... but in the mean time, please continue to entertain us with your stumped intellect...im dying to see more

[sigferl]

Thanks for your post CT. Here is the heart of the issue so please answer these questions:

Who pays for BK?

Who pays for bailouts?

Who pays for foreclosures/bailouts?

From my understanding by reading finance magazines and web sites: The common man pays for all BK/Bailouts/... through tax dollars/higher interest rates/higher bank fees, etc.

Do you agree?

When someone files medical BK, the Dr. does NOT lose the money, the Dr. has to make up for the loss by:

1. charging extra to the patients that do pay.
2. by taking a tax right-off and paying less taxes which increases others tax burden

Freedom is not free.

You shock and awe me with your intellect...since you enjoy intelligent conversation so much....

So, wise guy, explain to me how you figure I've abused BK and please figure out how you should be repaid your hard earned money by me. I mean really think about it and explain how anyone filing for BK took money straight from you, especially me. Now it sounds like you have a beef with the Govt. And if thats the case, please feel free to waste as much time crying your river of tears to them as you've so eloquently represented here.....then get back to us with your results.... but in the mean time, please continue to entertain us with your stumped intellect...im dying to see more

[CompTweaker]

Thanks for your post CT. Here is the heart of the issue so please answer these questions:

Who pays for BK?

Who pays for bailouts?

Who pays for foreclosures/bailouts?

From my understanding by reading finance magazines and web sites: The common man pays for all BK/Bailouts/... through tax dollars/higher interest rates/higher bank fees, etc.

Do you agree?

When someone files medical BK, the Dr. does NOT lose the money, the Dr. has to make up for the loss by:

1. charging extra to the patients that do pay.
2. by taking a tax right-off and paying less taxes which increases others tax burden

Freedom is not free.

Once again, you seem to have issues with the Govt, and you still HAVE NOT explained to me why I should send you a check from MY hard earned money....classic FAIL, avoid a question with a question.

Well Mr. Frugal:
1. Why are YOU paying higher bank fees? I bank where I get FREE checking, (been there over 4 years)
2. Why are you paying higher interest rates? When you pay for everything with cash, have money saved, what really is loans and interest rates? It seems I live more how you wish you could live.....come on silly, why are you paying bank fees and high interest rates?

[Rahaton]

A little information can be dangerous. Now you need to look into the costs of doing business. Just like the doctor has to pay the electric company so he has light to operate on you by part of his expenses are in the area of dealing with unpaid bills and BKed accounts.

The problem with the Utopia you wish for is that it makes people much more risk averse than they should be for society to function. It makes sense if you think about it, if by using your services I risk being sent to debtors' prison the cost of your services are much higher than their already high price tag and I am a lost sale.

If you think about it, as a business man you would be fool to look at a population of customers that will have say a 10% default rate (not all non-payment is do to BK) and say that you will not serve them at all. What you would do is build 5% into your cost structure to cover the lost payments. You as a customer will not pay an extra 5% because you are already paying the maximal market rate for the service, the business man is not your friend he wants as much cash as he can get.

Now you may whine that you are a perfect debtor and would never not pay (and you will never get sick) so you should not have to pay that part of the markup. Well you also did not use the crapper while you were in the office but you are paying part of the sewer bill as well.

So how is this good for society? Lets go back to our doctor who had 100 patients come through the door this week. If we change the risk profile of using his services to include the risk of debtors' prison then I will really think twice about seeing him. Lots of people will think twice and then end result is that the whole economy shrinks away.

[frogger]

Shoplifting/fraud effects on economy is small and they are not right.

Shoplifting and fraud are small? It's obvious that you've never been in retail.

[Willy13]

Funny thing about interest rates and fees. I used to have a Capital One card with a good 7.9% interest rate and a nice credit limt. I used to carry a balance on that card so the bank made some money on me and was very nice to me for several years. Finally I got that card paid off and then never carried a balance on it. What do you think my reward was for being a good resposible person with my debts? My reward was a new annual fee and interest rate increase. So much for blaming irresposible debtors for interest rate and fee increases. Btw, this was a few years ago when my credit was like 800 and I have had this card for at least 10 years at the time. Those hands picking your pocket will pick your pocket regardless of how many people file BK or don't file BK. Welcome to good old Greed is Good American Capitalism. When it comes to credit cards, the last thing banks want is people who are good with their money who they can't make any money off of. Ironically, if everyone always paid off their credit cards evey month so the banks could not make any interest or penalties, that probably would have more influence in increasing your rates then what the screwup debtors cause now.

[forgotten]

So much for blaming irresposible debtors for interest rate and fee increases. Btw, this was a few years ago when my credit was like 800 and I have had this card for at least 10 years at the time. Those hands picking your pocket will pick your pocket regardless of how many people file BK or don't file BK. Welcome to good old Greed is Good American Capitalism.

Don't be crazy! I'm sure any company would say, "You know what... we make enough money, lets cut back on some of our fees and charges. Our profits are so high its just getting silly!"

Yeah... right!