Telling It Straight--Where Have All The Leaders Gone?

[banca rotta]

I don't look at China as a huge success story. They are no different then our South 150 years ago. If you hold a gun to someone's head and make them work like a dog for little or no pay of course you will profit big.

Why we do business with them is for another day to discuss.

[AngelinaCatHub]

OOps, slipped into the "alternetative (alternative ) Amerika" ( be respectful, it is America, better yet our United States of America) here. You actually quote Malkin and Limbaugh? Aren't they discredited bozos? Best listen to them closer. They play both sides of Obama in his lies. I wish the forum had an alternative Amerika tag or something. I life (live) in the Blue world-- clean air, green grass and penty (plenty) of Dems. Obama is the Prez and we will eventually get universal health care like all the other civilized nations on the earth. (who are also bankrupt and health care goes overseas if you have the money) It is all a matter of getting past the dukes of hazzard (hazard) here. I am amazed there are no white sheets or Dixie flags.

Friend: I respect your opinion. I do not agree with you, but I shall respect the fact that you were trained in LBJ schools run by Union teachers. How much do you actually know of the past History of despots? You best go back to pre NAZI Germany, and review the up and coming National Socialism that became the acronym NAZI. It is the Liberals who are calling half of this Country Brown Shirts, etc. While they are practicing Herr Goebbels, who was the German National Socialist propaganda "Czar".

Here are your requested pictures:

The Official CSA flag, not the Battle flag:



Sheets: by the National Socialists,

[newbeginning]

I don't look at China as a huge success story. They are no different then our South 150 years ago. If you hold a gun to someone's head and make them work like a dog for little or no pay of course you will profit big.

Why we do business with them is for another day to discuss.

agreed. lost a little perspective there when citing China as an example.

also, equating the Nationalist Socialist Party with today's liberals contingent is silly. Not even close. Indications are that the RIGHT are more likely to hold such fascist ideas. Don't tell the KKK, Aryan Nation, skin-heads that they are a bunch of liberals! They, of course, would vehemently deny it.

The Nazis used socialist ideas to rally an entire nation of people long fed-up with the constraints and loss of identity from a failed loss of WWI and of course, the world depression. Rally the citizenry is not inherently evil, rather, the means and purpose is what should be examined carefully. In the end, the Nazis were no more philosophically dedicated to the socialist cause than anyone else. They used it to CONTROL.

Truly i say, one of the problems in this country is how readily we give the extreme left and right media attention that they do not deserve and should not get. Look at the health debate... the ONLY people being interviewed, shown on TV are the most angry, ignorant and misinformed. Makes great news and also helps to further muddle the debate. SAD.

[AngelinaCatHub]

agreed. lost a little perspective there when citing China as an example.

also, equating the Nationalist Socialist Party with today's liberals contingent is silly. Not even close. Indications are that the RIGHT are more likely to hold such fascist ideas. Don't tell the KKK, Aryan Nation, skin-heads that they are a bunch of liberals! They, of course, would vehemently deny it. I agree with you for the most part. The Reps and Dems are equally guilty in desire of power. As you said, A. Hitler and group just wanted power and how they got it worked. It is very coincidental to what I am seeing and I see it in my own eyes not Rush or others perspectives. Remember the KKK was brought about in the deep South, and the South was always (until recent) a Democrat area.

The Nazis used socialist ideas to rally an entire nation of people long fed-up with the constraints and loss of identity from a failed loss of WWI and of course, the world depression. TRUE. Rally the citizenry is not inherently evil, rather, the means and purpose is what should be examined carefully. In the end, the Nazis were no more philosophically dedicated to the socialist cause than anyone else. They used it to CONTROL.
EXACTLY
Truly i say, one of the problems in this country is how readily we give the extreme left and right media attention that they do not deserve and should not get. Look at the health debate... the ONLY people being interviewed, shown on TV are the most angry, ignorant and misinformed. Makes great news and also helps to further muddle the debate. SAD. Unfortunately true. They don't report a wonderful weather day, only a storm.

Our first amendment rights to gather and speak is now being attacked. Those who have their "Tea Parties" and address angrily at a "Town Hall Meeting" when it does not go well for the politician, are being called subversive names and getting stuck with handles that the American people who resist forced desired of the other persuasions, do not rightly deserve. Once they are labled as nut cases, EVERYBODY who talks against Govmint will be disregarded as crack-pots. This is in the making now and it is Goebbel's like. That is a comparison of the tactics that I see that has worked in the past.

[OhioFiler]

agreed. lost a little perspective there when citing China as an example.

also, equating the Nationalist Socialist Party with today's liberals contingent is silly. Not even close. Indications are that the RIGHT are more likely to hold such fascist ideas. Don't tell the KKK, Aryan Nation, skin-heads that they are a bunch of liberals! They, of course, would vehemently deny it.

The Nazis used socialist ideas to rally an entire nation of people long fed-up with the constraints and loss of identity from a failed loss of WWI and of course, the world depression. Rally the citizenry is not inherently evil, rather, the means and purpose is what should be examined carefully. In the end, the Nazis were no more philosophically dedicated to the socialist cause than anyone else. They used it to CONTROL.

Truly i say, one of the problems in this country is how readily we give the extreme left and right media attention that they do not deserve and should not get. Look at the health debate... the ONLY people being interviewed, shown on TV are the most angry, ignorant and misinformed. Makes great news and also helps to further muddle the debate. SAD.

You just described the situation our country is in today and the Obama administration...to a tee!

[newbeginning]

i strongly disagree. obama has nowhere the legal nor popular mandate to ever become a leader positioned to usurp the democratic process to his own will. goodness, one of the things that the last few months have shown is that there are elements of his own party that reluctantly support him.

also, the depression of the 30's was MUCH for debilitating and drawn-out than what we are experiencing today. desperation, poverty, the level of destabilization is nowhere near where it was back then. (we have a global economy, entities (eg. China) that now help to sustain us; not then, etc.)

what is happening today will not lead to what happened in germany over 40 years ago. the situation was ripe for nationalist myopism back then. w/o that element and a willing of the vast majority of the country to freely abdicate their sensibilities to a solitary idea or leader, this country is nowhere near becoming like Nazi germany. to entertain such thought is indicative of people both on the left and right who, election after election are convinced that the world is going to end because their candidate didn't win...

this country is divided enough so that such blind solidarity does not overwhelm this country. though such blind solidarity does exist on either extreme, it is, thus far, and fortunately, at the extremes...

[AngelinaCatHub]

i strongly disagree. obama has nowhere the legal nor popular mandate to ever become a leader positioned to usurp the democratic process to his own will. True, as well as A. Hitler. The leader was Von Hendenburg. Hitler, at that time, had no power. goodness, one of the things that the last few months have shown is that there are elements of his own party that reluctantly support him. True again, they later were eliminated. What makes you think that some may have that in their own minds at this time?

also, the depression of the 30's was MUCH for debilitating and drawn-out than what we are experiencing today. SO FAR. desperation, poverty, the level of destabilization is nowhere near where it was back then. (we have a global economy, entities (eg. China) that now help to sustain us; not then, etc.) China? Oh that relieves me as much as Castro, Chavez, (Iran's prez, I can't spell it).

what is happening today will not lead to what happened in germany over 40 years ago. the situation was ripe for nationalist (Nothing wrong with Nationalism. I am a Nationalist. I enjoy my Nation and it's Republic. It is Socialism I am against. ) myopism back then. w/o that element and a willing of the vast majority of the country to freely abdicate their sensibilities to a solitary idea or leader, this country is nowhere near becoming like Nazi germany. Can you not see what is happening? You are discribing just that issue and the attempt to go forth with it. to entertain such thought is indicative of people both on the left and right who, election after election are convinced that the world is going to end because their candidate didn't win... No, not the World, the Republic. Not every time, only THIS time.

this country is divided enough so that such blind solidarity does not overwhelm this country. though such blind solidarity does exist on either extreme, it is, thus far, and fortunately, at the extremes...Yes, but one of the extremes has the press, as well as the bribing printing press in their control.

Hey "newbegining", I love you (in God) but respectfully disagree with your theory. Every time we are limited, or controlled, or legislated, or licensed, by any Governmental Agency, it is a piece of our freedom given up. 'Bammy as well as Clinton and Bush, have been proven to be liars. BTW, they are all Lawyers. Need I say more? 'Hub

[newbeginning]

disagreeing is fine. i don't disagree that the more government intervenes the fewer liberties we have. i don't argue against that. what i dismiss for now, is the notion that our nation is "imminently" headed towards some totalitarian regime because of what is happening today...

i would be one of the first to argue for the people standing up for change that benefits us as a whole and in defiance (civil) of our self-gratifying politicians. i am not fan of obama, bush or clinton.

once again, socialism is not an evil ideology in itself. our nation is heavily permeated by "socialist" programs that make certain that you, i, your parents, the poor, etc. are provided with healthcare, subsidies, social security checks, food stamps, etc. i don't favor a complete socialist society, rather, i am honest about the fact that "this" country already has socialist programs in place and that no one, not even the president as far as i can tell, is advocating a complete socialist society. only health-care as an option. something that many european (other) nations do already and successfully.

to tell you the truth, the political landscape (and social) will never allow THIS president to ever reach a status that would irreparably damage our current, albeit very flawed, system of government... as he has recently given in on the idea of government option for healthcare for some dubious and poorly performed COOP option, it is clear that the other fear (that i have) is that the greatest reforms we need will likely come only watered-down and eventually proving to be inadequate from staving off further financial/budgetary collapse in this country.

for me, this country isn't headed towards self destruction because of a single-man's ideology (yet), rather, it will be a lack of commitment by all of us to make the changes needed to turn this country around.

btw, i consider myself a "nationalist" as well. imho, nationalists or people who really care about this country need to look at the reality of where we are and CAREFULLY and OBJECTIVELY be a part of a solution or solutions that will lead us away from dependence upon communist regimes, neglect of the common citizenry and political leaders who are driven by partisan ideology that is designed to neglect those that disagree with them...

[AngelinaCatHub]

"Newbeginning": Good post. I cannot rebut in any way. I think we agree but in different ways. However, we agree. 'Hub

[OhioFiler]

disagreeing is fine. i don't disagree that the more government intervenes the fewer liberties we have. i don't argue against that. what i dismiss for now, is the notion that our nation is "imminently" headed towards some totalitarian regime because of what is happening today...

i would be one of the first to argue for the people standing up for change that benefits us as a whole and in defiance (civil) of our self-gratifying politicians. i am not fan of obama, bush or clinton.

once again, socialism is not an evil ideology in itself. our nation is heavily permeated by "socialist" programs that make certain that you, i, your parents, the poor, etc. are provided with healthcare, subsidies, social security checks, food stamps, etc. i don't favor a complete socialist society, rather, i am honest about the fact that "this" country already has socialist programs in place and that no one, not even the president as far as i can tell, is advocating a complete socialist society. only health-care as an option. something that many european (other) nations do already and successfully.

to tell you the truth, the political landscape (and social) will never allow THIS president to ever reach a status that would irreparably damage our current, albeit very flawed, system of government... as he has recently given in on the idea of government option for healthcare for some dubious and poorly performed COOP option, it is clear that the other fear (that i have) is that the greatest reforms we need will likely come only watered-down and eventually proving to be inadequate from staving off further financial/budgetary collapse in this country.

for me, this country isn't headed towards self destruction because of a single-man's ideology (yet), rather, it will be a lack of commitment by all of us to make the changes needed to turn this country around.

btw, i consider myself a "nationalist" as well. imho, nationalists or people who really care about this country need to look at the reality of where we are and CAREFULLY and OBJECTIVELY be a part of a solution or solutions that will lead us away from dependence upon communist regimes, neglect of the common citizenry and political leaders who are driven by partisan ideology that is designed to neglect those that disagree with them...

O'bama with his insane spending has already irreparably harmed our country. His debt is overwhelming.

I would be VERY careful assuming his "COOP" plan is anything other than a different name for public option. He still intends to use tax dollars to create the agency (Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are examples of this mess). Who will oversee the coop? Who will appoint the directors? What happens if the COOP becomes insolvent?

[newbeginning]

only time will tell whether it is irreparable. and "his" spending is, in fact, the congress' spending. the money "he" used to bailout these financial institutions were first voted in by majority GOP congress and subsequent majority DEM.

the COOP seems to (i'm still confused about it and how it's supposed to help?!) be something of a hybrid of government and private. but also sounds to me to be a very dubious idea. this is a win for the for-profit debilitating health industry and the no-solutions-i'm against-anything-that sounds-like a government run-system folks (in fact, have these folks presented their own viable plan for reform? not that anyone is aware, huh.

frankly, if i were the president, i would leave the health industry and the GOP out of the decision making here. don't really need the GOP to pass health legislation. the government option is AN OPTION. for all of those who oppose a (government-run) socialist health option, they can stick with the corporate-oriented, for-profit system. that way "they" can feel good about opposing and not giving into the evil socialist system that may or may not provide them with the same health-care, cheaper and w/o the we-don't insure previous conditions policy, etc...

eesh. it's too bad the "other side" is not offering an alternative to what Obama has been presenting. it would be nice to see the opposition take on some leadership role, responsibility in a debate and issue that cannot be left "unreformed" or to its usual devices...

in the end, as things get even more muddled and distorted, the health industry benefits from this in-fighting and bickering.

fundamentally, what needs to change is how the health industry bills, how much they bill, how much more are we willing to get "fleeced", the long standing practice of defrauding the government by over-billing, any advantages the gov. gives the industry in terms of legislative tax breaks, etc. laws that undermine the very notion of health "care", ie. not providing health insurance because of previous conditions, etc.

the recent support by the health industry is a worrisome sight in my mind. this is an industry that is not in the business of doing the right thing as its first priority...it's to do the business thing. when they are in support of change, something is up and it's starting to smell bad...