Dave Ramsy - What do you think of him? Do you listen to him?

[MSbklawyer]

Dave Ramsey and his Financial Peace University: I had never heard of him until some of my would-be clients started coming in and refuting advice I was giving them with "But Dave Ramsey said . . ."

He has a call-in radio show about getting out and staying out of debt. I started listening to the guy and he gives a lot of good advice on staying out of bankruptcy in the first place and building personal wealth.

But when it comes to bankrupcy, I don't think he's ever seen cirmustances dire enough that he believes bankruptcy to be the best solution. He tells his callers to negotiate their debt down, to eat rice and beans / beans and rice, sell everything but the kids and apply it to debt, sell the house and move in with mom &c.

A lot of his philosophy is that if people are made to really FEEEEEL the pain of their bad financial decisions -- something they avoid or lessen by filing bankruptcy -- then they won't make the same mistakes again. That's good as far as it goes, but I've seen too many people at bankruptcy's door because of circumstances beyond their control.

Any D.R. fans / haters here?

[keepmine]

Not really a fan.
It's my understanding that he has a bk in his past but repaid his debts when he was able.

Me, I'm approaching the 4th anniversary of my bk filing and I just look at the whole thing as just business. I take all the emotion out of it and asked myself {and others} are you better off with or without this crushing debt. If the debt is overwhelming, you can only get so much releif from yard sales and 2nd jobs and a diet of beanie weenies. If you want to prosper and get on with your life then, some chapter of bk is the logical choice.
In the inteerst of full disclosure, my issues weren't medical or job loss. Just plain and simple, "champange tastes on a beer budget". But, I learned my lesson and, I've done well post bk.

[MSbklawyer]

I agree with your assessment.

I've never been through a bankruptcy myself, but I've handled many of them for clients. But Ramsey describes it as this heart-wrenching, months-of-sleepless-nights, agonizing experience to be avoided like the plague.

I suppose that feeling the pain of having to pay it back would cause a person to be more cautious in avoiding future debt, but I swear, I've heard the guy talking to minimum-wage single mothers who just had their wages garnished and they can't pay rent -- telling her not to file bk. Move in with mom, shop at goodwill &c.

[BKOnce]

He's an Arm-chair General

[curmudgeon]

My DH is very drawn to the philosophies of Dave Ramsey and has even told me that we could live on rice and beans if we were serious about getting out of debt. As for me, it will be a cold day in Hell before I make our kids eat rice and beans because I was stupid with money and my husband lost his high-paying job. I believe some people thrive on a challenge like getting out of crushing debt the hard way and some people just aren't compelled to punish themselves toward such an impossible goal. (They don't say "opposites attract" for nothing!) As far as I am concerned, let Dave Ramsey eat all the rice and beans he wants to without telling me what to eat or where to shop.

[JRScott]

Dave filed bankruptcy back in the 80s during the last real real estate crisis. Prior to that he was a real estate mogul who lost everything. He indeed has suffered through it. He tried many ways to avoid it.

He changed his philosophy on life due to the hardships they endured. It was that hardship that ultimately led him to start his Financial Peace university. Bankruptcy today does not carry as much of the stigma as it did in the 80s, nor is the process as hard in many cases despite the reform.

You are correct Dave's plan is about sacrificing hard so that you ultimately learn the lesson and leave the process with a determination so strong that you'll never be in it again that you'll make the lifestyle choices necessary to do so. Otherwise without a change in spending and living habits you'll be back in the same situation within 6-8 years for many people.

His way is not the only way and there is no guarantee it will work for everyone. In essence most of his plan works well for young to middle aged individuals in good health. If your health is less than good, it is unlikely you could take on the number of jobs he recommends and make it.

[TrainWreak]

Unfortunately I am way beyond any help the rice and beans philosophy would do for my situation. That's fine if anyone is in a position to implement it. I know for sure I will not be getting another credit card or any type of credit unless it is at a hospital maybe.

[OhioFiler]

Dave Ramsey is selling a product that is different than filing BK. If he encouraged his customers to file BK he'd end up with no listeners/followers.

Just imagine how long he'd still be on the air if 90% of the heartache callers he deals with were simply told to contact an attorney and file BK.

[frogger]

But when it comes to bankrupcy, I don't think he's ever seen cirmustances dire enough that he believes bankruptcy to be the best solution. He tells his callers to negotiate their debt down, to eat rice and beans / beans and rice, sell everything but the kids and apply it to debt, sell the house and move in with mom &c.

And that's where he's wrong. IMO, bk should be the final solution after everything else has been tried, but bk should always be a viable option. It's easy to preach not to do something, but when you've done it yourself, you don't have much credibility.

As to listening to him, small doses at a time are all that I can take. I do agree with many things he advises, but once you listen to him for an hour or so, you're pretty much heard it all. Same thing, different program.

[BKOnce]

Dave Ramsey is selling a product that is different than filing BK. If he encouraged his customers to file BK he'd end up with no listeners/followers.
Just imagine how long he'd still be on the air if 90% of the heartache callers he deals with were simply told to contact an attorney and file BK.

He has a work contract with the radio station owner. He has to know exactly what to say and what's not!... Otherwise, he could not generate enough air revenue$$$ & listeners' call$$$ for the station.... to warrant his good job anymore!

But deep down his heart.... he just wants to SHOUT OUT==>> BK IS GREAT EVERYONE...JUST FOLLOW MY FOOTSTEPS !!!

[keepmine]

And that's where he's wrong. IMO, bk should be the final solution after everything else has been tried, but bk should always be a viable option. It's easy to preach not to do something, but when you've done it yourself, you don't have much credibility.

As to listening to him, small doses at a time are all that I can take. I do agree with many things he advises, but once you listen to him for an hour or so, you're pretty much heard it all. Same thing, different program.

In keeping with my mantra that bk is just a business decision, I think that in a lot of instances, bk ought to be the first option. How many posts have we sen where people have tried to delay the envitable by raiding retirement accounts or using home equity to payoff debt and still have to file?
If you have assets that are exempt in bk like, ERISA qualfied retirement accounts or the equity in your home is exempt bk needs to be a first consideration. Nothing says you can't emerge from bk with a positive net worth. Nothing wrong with planning a bk if you have that option.

[sigferl]

Thanks for your post curmudgeon. I think I disagree with most/all of your post if I understand it correctly so please correct me if I am wrong.

The difference between the two types of people you site(hard workers verses BK) is that BK people have a negative impact on others while hard workers only have a positive impact.

You have the freedom to live your life any way you want but it starts becoming a problem when you have a negative impact on others.

For example, most people on this board dislike large companies so if you shoplift from Sears, the rest of the Sears customers have to pay a higher price to offset the shoplifting loss.

Do you agree? I noticed that no one agreed with you so I hope you are in the minority in this forum.

God Bless America.

My DH is very drawn to the philosophies of Dave Ramsey and has even told me that we could live on rice and beans if we were serious about getting out of debt. As for me, it will be a cold day in Hell before I make our kids eat rice and beans because I was stupid with money and my husband lost his high-paying job. I believe some people thrive on a challenge like getting out of crushing debt the hard way and some people just aren't compelled to punish themselves toward such an impossible goal. (They don't say "opposites attract" for nothing!) As far as I am concerned, let Dave Ramsey eat all the rice and beans he wants to without telling me what to eat or where to shop.

[sigferl]

Thanks for your post MS. I respectively disagree with you and definitely agree with Dave Ramsey. Lets have a informative discussion.

People on this forum think I am out-of-line but I am just stating what most people I know of think about hard work and frugal living. I think there are large numbers of people like Dave Ramsey, just not on this forum.

Moving in with parents and shopping a Goodwill is excellent advice. What is the downside to this advice?

Ross Perot, a billionaire, used to drive a 5 year old buick.

Shopping for the best price is good. Moving out of the parents home is a luxury and not a necissity or a 'right'.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

I agree with your assessment.

I've never been through a bankruptcy myself, but I've handled many of them for clients. But Ramsey describes it as this heart-wrenching, months-of-sleepless-nights, agonizing experience to be avoided like the plague.

I suppose that feeling the pain of having to pay it back would cause a person to be more cautious in avoiding future debt, but I swear, I've heard the guy talking to minimum-wage single mothers who just had their wages garnished and they can't pay rent -- telling her not to file bk. Move in with mom, shop at goodwill &c.

[curmudgeon]

My point is that I believe Dave Ramsey's advice appeals to those who have a punishing mentality. Eating rice and beans is fine as a lifestyle choice, but will probably not get most people out of the amount of crushing debt already incurred at the point bankruptcy is being seriously considered. I really think that's just a simplistic solution with little pragmatic value once the financial die has been cast. Beyond a certain point, it's just simple math. Like our BK attorney said to us "How else are you ever going to hope to get out from under this?" He assessed the situation realistically and told us that BK is really our only hope, and I believe he's right. Maybe the Financial Peace information would have been a good way to head all this off at the pass if crisis wasn't already looming, but after that, I think it is just not realistic. As far as hurting others, BK is rarely deliberate (does anyone set out to end up at this point?) and the best way to make amends is to not let it happen again and to teach your children about money so the cycle doesn't repeat itself intergenerationally.

[OhioFiler]

Thanks for your post curmudgeon. I think I disagree with most/all of your post if I understand it correctly so please correct me if I am wrong.

The difference between the two types of people you site(hard workers verses BK) is that BK people have a negative impact on others while hard workers only have a positive impact.
You have the freedom to live your life any way you want but it starts becoming a problem when you have a negative impact on others.

For example, most people on this board dislike large companies so if you shoplift from Sears, the rest of the Sears customers have to pay a higher price to offset the shoplifting loss.

Do you agree? I noticed that no one agreed with you so I hope you are in the minority in this forum.

God Bless America.

You aren't sure if you agree or disagree? That means you are a confused man.

You are wrong. Ted Bundy was a hard worker.

Absurd to state most people on this board dislike large companies. Prove it.