Repaying bailouts and BK.

[JRScott]

Thanks for your post JR. I am not sure if understand your posts, are you saying that BK is good for the economy?

Why are multiple BKs 'sad' and 'immoral' and the first BK is not?

I disagree about the 1% abusing BK, I think 99% abuse BK. All six of the BK that I personally know are BK abuse. Most of the reasons for BK posted on this forum are BK abuse and not caused by severe permanent medical disablities.

Freedom is not free.

A person who has to file a bankruptcy multiple times due to circumstances beyond their control such as medical or loss of job are not violating the spirit of the law. They are indeed using it for what it was intended. There is nothing unethical or immoral about that.

Those who purposely acquire debt with the express purpose of unloading it at the next available bankruptcy time are in essence committing fraud and thus violating the spirit of the law even if the court can't necessarily prove it.

Most people do not abuse BK. Most people do not set out with the express purpose of accumulating debt just to discharge it in BK. There are a few like I said probably less than 1% that do that. Just because you disagree with the BK laws of this nation does not mean that those who do not share your view are abusing the BK system.

If your concerned about freedom perhaps you should concentrate your effort against an overreaching Federal government that constrains your freedom more and more each year rather than worrying about those who find it necessary to exercise their Constitution right to have a fresh start when circumstances change such that they cannot bear their financial burden. Though from your post so far it is clear you'd prefer to remove more freedoms given to us by the Founding Fathers, so in essence your call for freedom is just an effort to use flattering words to bring people to your point of view.

[sigferl]

Thanks for you post junker. I wish you would answer my previous questions because I am curious.

When I talk to family/friends/co-worker we are mostly in agreement and most of them think like me. There are many people that I know that are much tougher and stricter against programs like BK, welare, etc.

The problem is, this forum bans all dissenting opinions so you are left with the false impression that the opinions expressed here are in the majority and it is my experience that the people in this forum are in the minority.

I am pro-BK, I am just against BK abuse and it is my experience that BK abuse occures 95% of the time.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

E=junker;304240]HEY SIGFER
could some of your statements and misunderstandings or not understandings.. come from the Libertarians liberal views on dope?????
i mean if you dont understand a lot of the reasoning here... is it because have smoked a little toooooo much??????(whacky tobaccy)[/QUOTE]

[junker]

bk is a right..... no matter how many times you do it...until the laws are changed it is a right....a business decision....some people just make the wrong decisions... or things are out of their control more than once...abusing the bk process. is when some one knows very well they are going to file long before they actually do...and MANY do.....and continue to use credit cards or even continue to try and get credit....everyone on this forum knows this is done.....to answer your question about post....if i were to buy say...some kitchen cabinets from either a local cabinet maker down the street...or some big outfit ...like lowes, or home depot...or sears....i would feel bad about stiffing the local guy.... and if possible i would try and pay him....the others i feel absolutely NO compassion for....their top execs are getting millon dolllar bonuses. Yes they employ a lot of people...but they are far less likely to be impacted by my decison or 1000 others to file bk...then the local guy...and the big companies will likely be bailed out...and their huge bonuses remain intact.....but i realize...after reading online about a libertarians views that it would be hard to rationolize with you.....as evidenced by the length of this thread.......and others feeble attempts to rationalize......

[2Bshinyandnew]

For example, Countrywide bank is a huge bank and has a huge number of people not paying their mortgage that caused Countrywide to fail and require taxpayer bailout.

Are you serious? You think Countrywide failed because people just out of nowhere for no reason stopped paying their mortgages? You don't think Countrywide's predatory lending practices had anything to do with their failure? Countrywide's greed and the desire for the already wealthiest few to increase their wealth short term was countrywide's undoing. That is what makes the bailout so outrageous! Not that borrowers stopped paying, that Countrywide created loans that would be impossible to service and then received bailout funds from the very people who were coerced into signing these toxic loans.

The answer doesn't lie with the individual debtor dear Sigmund.

[BkinTX]

Just because an opinion (any opinion) is shared by the majority does not make it correct.

[sigferl]

Thanks for your post 2B. I respectively disagree completely.
What did the banks do that was predatory?

Do you blame the car dealership if you buy a car you can not afford?

People chose ARM mortgage becasue the monthly payments were low for the first few years and it allowed them to get a larger house. It is the homeowners responsibility to earn the money to pay the new mortgage when the rate adjusts by working second job, getting promoted, etc...

The mortgage crisis is MOSTLY caused by people buying a house that is way larger then they could afford. The mortgage crisis is also caused by people not following the old rule of 20% cash downpayment.

Just because someone makes you an offer, you do not have to take it. I say NO to all the sales ads that are in my Sunday newspaper or salesman at Sears. I also say no to banks wanting to sell me to large of a house.

I do not agree with CEO salaries but at least they have jobs, education, and work hard for what they get.

God Bless America

Are you serious? You think Countrywide failed because people just out of nowhere for no reason stopped paying their mortgages? You don't think Countrywide's predatory lending practices had anything to do with their failure? Countrywide's greed and the desire for the already wealthiest few to increase their wealth short term was countrywide's undoing. That is what makes the bailout so outrageous! Not that borrowers stopped paying, that Countrywide created loans that would be impossible to service and then received bailout funds from the very people who were coerced into signing these toxic loans.

The answer doesn't lie with the individual debtor dear Sigmund.

[bk2009]

So, just wondering, is it 99% that are misusing the system, or 95%? Seems you're not even sure of your own views.

Should everyone file bankruptcy? No, absolutely not. We were doing the TMMO (Dave Ramsey) for all of 2008. Great, paid down some debt. Wonderful. But then we had the rug pulled out from under us when DH lost his job suddenly in January. We are only able to afford our utilities and our 1st/2nd mortgage. There are no jobs. We are in a double digit unemployment state. No one is going to hire my DH to work at Walmart - he is way overqualified. Even though I've been out of the workforce for a number of years, I too am overqualified and Walmart and the like won't hire me (I know, I've applied). So, what might you suggest that we do? We seem to have lost our boots this go around?

[sigferl]

Thanks for your post junker. Your posts confuse me and I want to understand your position.

Why do you hate large companies? Do you hate all large company employees, just the top 100 executives, CEO, ???

Large companies got that way because they were better then their competitors and caused the weak competitors to fail. Called capitalism

Is it OK to shoplift from large companies?

Libertarians like me do not believe in the redistribution of wealth and everyone should enjoy the fruits of their own labor(with some minor exeptions). Seems fair to me.

PS. I have worked for large companies for all of my 25 years since college.

God helps them that help themselves.

bk is a right..... no matter how many times you do it...until the laws are changed it is a right....a business decision....some people just make the wrong decisions... or things are out of their control more than once...abusing the bk process. is when some one knows very well they are going to file long before they actually do...and MANY do.....and continue to use credit cards or even continue to try and get credit....everyone on this forum knows this is done.....to answer your question about post....if i were to buy say...some kitchen cabinets from either a local cabinet maker down the street...or some big outfit ...like lowes, or home depot...or sears....i would feel bad about stiffing the local guy.... and if possible i would try and pay him....the others i feel absolutely NO compassion for....their top execs are getting millon dolllar bonuses. Yes they employ a lot of people...but they are far less likely to be impacted by my decison or 1000 others to file bk...then the local guy...and the big companies will likely be bailed out...and their huge bonuses remain intact.....but i realize...after reading online about a libertarians views that it would be hard to rationolize with you.....as evidenced by the length of this thread.......and others feeble attempts to rationalize......

[lrprn]

Folks, it's obvious that sigferi is not interested in an actual discussion - this is just a soapbox for his/her to trumpet personal beliefs. Individuals like this don't care about the facts - they get their jollies watching everyone dance to their tune trying to convince them they are wrong. Their goal is to watch us respond to them while "poking the bear" to get more action.

When dealing with folks like this on open forums like ours, just don't reply no matter what they post. No responses = the troll disappears. They can't get their jollies talking to an empty room.

[DeadManCrawling]

I suspect Sigferl is a person who seems to pop up here every year or so with the same agenda and a new name.

I once engaged this person, or tried to. If it is indeed the same person, they are so thick-headed you should not waste your time.

[junker]

Libertarians are huge advocates of legallizing all drugs, which might be why he fails to understand a lot of posts, and continues with his mindless dribble....

[Minnymouth]

Since this thread tends to stay "off topic" it is now CLOSED.