Not sure what to do??????

[blankslate]

You most certainly did not answer my question. I asked you what your advice is for a person who is already working two jobs and living beyond frugal, to the point of not being able to set food on the table for their children.

The system is made to find those who abuse it. I know this as I saw them in the 341 meeting getting grilled by the UST and creditors who showed. It is so setup to find abuse that it makes people who are in a deserving and non-abusing situation jump through hoops like crazy to prove themselves.

If your able bodied neighbor has filed for bk and is on the verge of foreclosure, I think he is learning his lesson. He will not be allowed to keep the large house unless he pays for it or the luxury items. Those are taken by the Trustee.

[blankslate]

You're going to give yourself an aneurysm worrying about whether or not everyone has made the same sacrifices that you have. We're all cut from different cloths and it's something you need to accept. At the times when things looked good for them, they may have looked down on you for not having the same fancy things. Now you return the favor by looking down on them as they loose all of their fancy things.

I do not have a clothes dryer, I have a portable washer that I hook up to my sink and then use a garment bag that has a dryer motor in it to do the rest. Takes longer, but it works and it's better than hauling everything to a laundromat and spending more money to waste my few precious off hours there. I do have pay TV and cell phones for my daughter and I. I work for those, no one else pays those bills. We don't do much else for entertainment so the TV is a good investment for us. The cell phones are so we can keep in touch when she is taking the City bus to school.

I don't understand why you are so bitter though. This is the time when you should feel very proud that none of your stuff will be taken from you because you own it all. This "toxic debt" is based on fake values created by the lenders. I wouldn't worry too much about them. Eventually they will have to eat it and it was due to their greed that it was created in the first place. Some people will never learn no matter how much advise you give them. Others, will learn from this and MOST in this forum have.

There are a great deal of people here who are actually aiming at exactly what you preach. Living frugal, creating a nest egg and only purchasing items with cash. Your blanket judgment does no good here. You refuse to see that not everyone falls into what you think of bankruptcy.

[BK2008]

I would guess that most of the people who find themselves here have already made lifestyle changes. Let me rephrase my previous question. Why do you assume that the people here haven't already made lifestyle changes?

There is a forum here called Smart Personal Financial Insights. If you are truly here to help people (and I don't believe that you are) you might post your advice in that forum. However, you're going to have to come up with better advice than your normal work more and sell luxury items. Most of the people here are in too deep for those things to work.

Ummm, don't forget the 'give up the lattes' mantra. THAT should save everyone?? (Isn;t this a Dave Ramsey thing?)

I wonder what kind of 'lifestyle' changes people need to make that are in a sqeeze because of medical issues and huge bills that go with it??

And while working 80 hrs a week sounds like a pleasure, and surely I'd have been able to pay off all my creditors, I wonder what will happen to my kids, who in 5 years will be teens...running the streets, into drugs, and all kinds of trouble? Possubly in jail?? But yeah, hey, Citibank and all of the others got paid back honorably. I merely failed as a parent. Oh well, can't have everything.

[blankslate]

The cell phone, that's my special need. My special need as a mother to know my daughter has arrived safely to school and back. Having a cell phone is also required in my line of work as I am on call many days of the week. I don't use a land line and long distance is included in my cell plan so I actually save on that.

My work history? I've been working since I was 13 years old. I started out babysitting for a single mother who worked nights. Started waiting tables and paying uncle Sam when I was 16 and living on my own. I'm 35 years old and I have never not worked. While there were layoffs inbetween, I also did other work to pay the rent. I cleaned apartments, helped friends who owned business with their books by auditing their files.

You are making judgments if you think you know a thing about me. I'll make one about you too. I think you're a self righteous jerk. I'm not name calling, I'm just stating my opinion like you do. I've worked hard my entire adult life and before I was even an adult. I've been a slave to politicians and greedy business that designed this great economic failure.

Go a head and judge everyone. For someone who has lived so frugal and planted so many gardens to consider yourself so above everyone else, you sure don't seem to be a happy person. I'd rather be me than you right now.

I'm going to stop responding to you. Now I'm going to go join my daughter and her friend who is visiting from out of town for a nice pot roast dinner that I've been working on all day. After we will sit in front of that fancy schmancy pay TV and watch our shows. Maybe just for the hell of it I'll call them with my cell phone from the bathroom to make sure everyone is having fun.

[BK2008]

Maybe just for the hell of it I'll call them with my cell phone from the bathroom to make sure everyone is having fun.

LOLOL!!! That's awesome!

[LuciluS]

Maybe I should go back to the Dave Ramsey forum...

Lady or Sir: After reading all your 28 posts, I respectively agree with your above comment.

Your posts are demeaning to those who come to this Forum which is geared to BANKRUPTCY. We don't need to be told 'We need to plant a garden' or we need to work 2 jobs, or that you don't have a cell phone or we shouldn't file Bankruptcy because we haven't changed our lifestyle to suit you. Until 'You have walked in any posters' shoes, you have no right to be judgemental!'

I got news for You! My lifestyle changed Dramatically when I was in a car wreck on 3-14-05. I've had 7 surgeries since then, have a Spinal Cord Stimulator implanted, cannot move the toes on my left foot due to nerve damage, must wear a device inside my left foot which has a bar all the way up to my knee, use a cane, rollator or a scooter and I'm 100% disabled determined by several Specialists and Social Security Doctor also. If you saw me sitting in a chair, you wouldn't be able to tell I was disabled. My husband, at age 50, had 5 bypass surgery in 2/07 & a pacemaker implanted in 6/07 & was off work 7 1/2 mths. due to DOT regulations without pay. He is an OTR truck driver and works 70-80 hours each week.

And as far as your neighbor...again you don't have any right to be judgemental. You don't know what goes on behind his/her closed doors.

Yep, Dave Ramsey forum NEEDS YOU!

Luci

[blankslate]

To be perfectly honest, no I'm not too concerned with what happens in other people's homes. We all have our burden to bear no matter how good things look on the outside.

I'm more concerned with corporate greed that led to this collapse than I am whether or not the consumer was an idiot. There will always be idiots, that's just the way the world. A lot of people believed the lenders and credit card companies that told them everything was going to be all right. People were told to build their credit, not to pay cash for everything. A lot of these people incurred their debts at a time when everything looked good. They made a decent living and interest rates were low. They were blindsided when that bubble burst. I took a temp job in between layoffs in an escrow office during the height of the housing boom. I tried to warn people that maxing their equity was only putting them in that much debt (I saw many $1 mil + refi's) but no one wanted to hear my neutral voice.

This toxic debt is being absorbed by businesses who made poor and greedy decisions and over inflated the value of their products. This means that those of us who do pay cash for everything can now afford to as the prices are coming down to our levels. You're right, that is being passed onto the consumer but in a good way. I don't feel one bit sorry for any business that based their sales profits on credit. That is a gamble and they lost. Same goes for the banks and what they did to housing prices. Those are now coming down so low that in a couple of years, I can afford to buy a home.

It is not my job or yours to tell our neighbors how to live their lives. If they ask for advice, they'll get it. If not, then they'll learn eventually.The only time I am bothered by what my neighbors are doing is if they are trying to judge me or disrupt my life.

My father was always focused on working and making it big. He came from literally nothing and built a successful bank and handsome retirement. I loved my father no matter what and never felt abandoned because he wasn't around. I knew he loved me. Now that he is 93 years old and that handsome retirement is gone he is a man full of regrets. He regrets that he wasn't there for his children. He regrets that he missed the important moments of my life. I can't ease that pain but to tell him that I don't hold it against him but it depresses him that he doesn't have those memories of me growing up because he was too busy working. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

[CompTweaker]

CT, I would love to have a discussion with you but all you did was call me names and want me to be banned.

Why do you want me to be banned?

I disagree with most of your posts but I believe in your right to voice your opinion.

Why can't we all just get along and try to solve peoples problems?

Specifically point to where I called you names and also point to where I said I wanted you banned.....nevermind, I'll save you the time. I NEVER DID IT!

Grow Up.

[Allmixedup]

WOW! I am almost sorry I posted a question....sheesh!

[LuciluS]

It is my humble opinion that hard work and frugal living will solve 95% of all BK and greatly reduce Americas 'toxic debt' and I base it on my experiences with people that have filed BK and those that have not.

Here is a story that I think is BK abuse, do you agree?

A married father of two children works in construction that has peaks and valleys during the year. During the peaks, the father buys medical insurance along with luxury items like pay tv, pets, nice cars instead of saving money for the valleys. During the valleys, the father stops paying for medical insurance and then someone in the family gets sick when medical insurance has lasped.

[COLOR="Navy"]There will always be a small % of people who abuse in Law.
Read http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30196409/
Bankruptcies surge despite law meant to help
Nearly 1.2 million debtors filed for bankruptcy in the past 12 months

It's two pages long or I would quote the whole post, but I will post this part on page to back up my comment about the small percentage of abuse.

"Lawless argued that only a tiny number of people were abusing the system before the 2005 shift, and that the law punishes those who genuinely need help.

"The point of the bankruptcy system is to give the honest but unfortunate debtor a fresh start," Lawless said. "The fact that people are waiting longer to file shows just how mean-spirited the law is."


Luci

[CompTweaker]

Lucilus, sorry to have offened you in anyway, that was not my intent. From my observation, most people that come here have not tried hard work and frugal living. 6 out of 7 people that I personally know that filed BK did not work hard or live frugally, they were not taught that.

IMHO, your story is not the norm and appears to be exactly what BK is for. Have you asked everyone that has filed BK if they have a severe permanate medical disability or have the insurance to cover medical costs?

It is my humble opinion that hard work and frugal living will solve 95% of all BK and greatly reduce Americas 'toxic debt' and I base it on my experiences with people that have filed BK and those that have not.

Here is a story that I think is BK abuse, do you agree?

A married father of two children works in construction that has peaks and valleys during the year. During the peaks, the father buys medical insurance along with luxury items like pay tv, pets, nice cars instead of saving money for the valleys. During the valleys, the father stops paying for medical insurance and then someone in the family gets sick when medical insurance has lasped.

You know what, Im going to sacrifice myself to being banned in telling you to SHUT THE **** UP YOU ****ING TROLL, AND KISS MINE AND EVERYONE ELSE"S ASS WHO ARE HERE TO DISCUSS BK AND OUR FINANCIAL HARDSHIPS!!!

IM SENDING YOU THE MIDDLE FINGER, TELLING YOU THAT YOU'RE THE #1 ASS H***!! YOU DO NOT COME HERE TRYING TO HELP ANYONE BUT YOURSELF SEEKING ATTENTION TO THE LIKES I AM FEEDING YOU!!!

YOU'RE A WASTE OF DNA AND I FEEL SORRY FOR THE GENE POOL THAT YOU HAVE PERMANENTLY VIOLATED WITH YOUR VILE AND PRETENTIOUS STAIN!!!

I apologize Mods and Admins, but this ASS needs to be put in his/her place.

[LuciluS]

To Ya! CompTweaker!

Those of us who are here need encouragement, assistance and just to talk about what we lies ahead. We don't need to be told to work harder and live frugal.

Luci

[eddiep]

pay tv and cell phones are luxury items but a computer and internet access are not? Sell the computer and get yourself a pen and paper and write down your insults, then you can burn the paper to heat your single wide, nobody is listening anyhow!!!

[Allmixedup]

Sick of this thread already!!

I started this thread, and have become discouraged that I will even get any advice. It just seems like insult after insult! Obviously people make mistakes financially, BUT at the same someone like myself took out a mortgage in good faith. I did not see this economic downturn coming. I already live what I consider a frugal life. I have 3 kids and rarely buy myself anything. The cost of living itself is what I am having a hardtime keeping up with. My husband works for the auto industry and has been going through multiple week layoffs. Even living frugal you tell me how you can pay your bills and take care of your kids when your work lays you off 12 weeks in the last 4-5 months!!!!!!! I cannot cut anything more out of my budget!! Now please let's end this already depressing thread!!!!!!!!

[LuciluS]

Sorry -AllMixedUP

I apologize for hijacking your thread.

Here's my advice.

There is a post I think on Chapter 13 about the New Loan Modification. I will try to find it for you tomorrow afternoon as my husband is in the hospital.

There is also a person who has written an Excellent Means test. I will again try to find that.

First - Filing Chapter 7 or 13 is based on the past 6 Months Gross Income. For example we will be filing on 9/30/09 and using March-August Income.

Make a list of your Monthly Expenses. You can use the last 6 months or even the last 12 months. This will be easy if you have a checking account especially for utilities, etc. If you intend to try to keep your house include the monthly payment. If you think you can file a Chapter 7 do not include Credit Cards as they will probably be wiped out in a Chapter 7.

Don't forget things like child care expenses, health insurance or any medical bills/prescriptions you have paid in the last 12 months.

Then set up some appts. to see a few Attorneys who give free consultations and take your figures with you. Both husband and wife don't have to be at the free consulation; however, my husband happened to be off that day.

Another thing is google and see what your State Exemptions are. Or your State may allow you to use the Federal Exemptions. We live in Arkansas and they allow the Federal Exemptions which are much higher than the State.

I truly think there is a better loan modification plan for you out there since you are so behind on your payments.

If you know you will be filing Bankruptcy, stop paying on your Credit Cards as soon as possible. Save that money for necessities (sp?).

Again, I apologize for ruining your post; however, I don't appreciate people coming to a Bankruptcy Forum and critizing those of us who need help.

Luci

PS There is a Search button up in the blue part. Use it. Read every post you think might be of some help for you. I've been reading since Oct. 1,2008 and found out our Attorney missed an Income I was receiving from a previous marriage which ended in Feb. Thus the March-August income. He wanted us to file in Dec. and we would have been pushed into a Chapter 13.

You can plan your Bankruptcy if you feel you have the time. We haven't paid most of our credit cards since the end of 9/08.

If you have private questions, feel free to PM some of the Moderators or Gurus and they will be more than happy to answer your message in private.

I sent you a PM (Private Message) just so you would see how it works. You may need to go into your 'User Panel' to accept messages.