Is President Obama Fixing the Economy?? Yes, Maybe, No - weigh in here

[JRScott]

Interesting that you haven't listed a single Republican on your list.....are you really under the delusion that Democrats have created this mess all on their own? Time for a serious dose of reality, my friend. The days when the privilege of thinking that one party or the other is to blame for everything is out-of-date thinking. BOTH major political parties are to blame for this mess.

Instead of politicians sniping at each other with the sole intent of increasing the short-term kill count while our country swirls the drain, it's time for the Senate and House to grow up and quit the "unless I can have it my way, no one can have it" toddler thinking that dominates both of our current political structures.

Obama is at least trying to open conversations with both sides, and is being savaged by the extremist factions of both parties for trying while the mass media and political editorial writers and bloggers egg both sides on to generate more stories to get more revenue. I'm sick to death of the whole dysfunctional mess.

The question is will we ever be able to find consensus? Almost everyone is defending their positions to the death wanting to be right. As Dr. Phil would say, "How's that working for you?" Frankly it isn't working. The question is when are we going to recognize it, stop the cross-party sniping and name-calling, and start using FACTS rather than political ideology or unproven opinions to drive our government's decisions?

Obama is at least trying to reach across party lines - a refreshing change from the past even if he's only getting stomped by factions in both parties for trying it. I still say give him more time - it's way too early to tell how this is going to turn out.

It's really easy to post sweeping opinion statements that come straight out of both political party's 'talking points'. Where's the proof that supports the opinions from legitimate, independent sources? (Which means MSNBC and Fox News are both off the list ) Post proof with your opinions - that has value. Otherwise it's just more of the same - hot air without substance.

Mitch McConnell is a Republican.......in case you didn't know that......

The fact is there is not a single member of the senate who has served more than 2 terms that is not more interested in their own self indulgence than in serving the people, regardless of party or lack of party.

The same is true of the House who have served for 4 or more terms.

I myself am registered Unaffiliated and always have been both in NC and in Utah when I lived there.

[JRScott]

Mea culpa - missed that - thanks for the correction.

Since there's been so much in the media since Obama's election, I didn't want to be insulting posting examples of his bipartisan efforts. However, since you appear to be residing in a carefully censored news world, here you go:
- Kept a Republican, Robert Gates, as his Secretary of Defense -
- Asked a Republican, New Hampshire senator Judd Gregg, to be his Secretary of Commerce. Gregg accepted then withdrew himself - http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/...rce/index.html
- Here's an excellent 2/17/09 non-partisan article from Forbes (a conservative publication) that brings balance to the "Is Obama bipartisan?" discussion. Even this writer recognizes that Obama was trying to reach across party lines but was being rebuffed by the other side over ideology differences - http://www.forbes.com/2009/02/17/dem..._gerstein.html

"Obama knows as well as anyone that America is facing a profound crisis of confidence--not just in our economy, but even more so in our political and business leaders. And he knows that to get through this tenuous period whole, we can't afford to have half the Congress opposing him at every step and half the country questioning the legitimacy of every solution that moves on the Hill. Forget about gridlock--that's a recipe for meltdown.

That's why Obama continued to reach out to Republicans even when it appeared that almost all of them would vote against the stimulus bill. He knows that he can't close the trust deficit outside Washington if it persists and possibly worsens in it. And he knows that changing the hard-dying habits of hyper-partisanship, as he suggested at his prime-time press conference, will be a long-term proposition."

Hmmmm....not correct. Quoted from the Congressional Quarterly's 'Republicans Urge Obama to Amend Stimulus Plan' on Jan 27, 2009 *BEFORE* the stimulus plan went to a vote:
"House Republican leaders, who earlier blasted the $825 billion stimulus package the House is about to tackle, emerged from a meeting with President Obama on Tuesday praising his willingness to consider their ideas for changing it.

Their Senate counterparts, always less vociferous in their attacks on the plan, also welcomed Obama's efforts to court the minority. He met with them for nearly an hour after a 75-minute session with House GOP members."

Obviously Obama did not (as you put it) "refuse to consider any Republican proposals". Obama listened. Some Republican suggestions from the meeting actually were included in the stimulus plan - the tax cuts for 95% of Americans, for example.

Proof to you and extreme right-wing conservatives, perhaps. Still don['t see any collaborative, independent sources that support your opinion. Of course, you are entitled to believe whatever you wish. Just don't jump to the conclusion that because you believe it, it must be so.

For me, your points of view are just more mouthing of Republican right-wing extremist talking points that are, at best, carefully edited and scripted exaggerations, and at worst, deliberate, deceptive lies to maintain the status quo of destructive partisanship.

A conservative who just happens to state a belief in many of the same talking points that right-wing Republican extremists believe fervently too. Hmmmm....walks like a duck, talks like a duck....all too often it's ends up being a duck

On this we agree. The problem is that the original conservative priniciples we were founded on have morphed into the 'conservative principles' the Republican party touts now. The current conservative movement in the US started as a political ideology in the early 1950s, not in the 1790s. Read all about the history of the conservative movement in this country across many parties and changes in beliefs over the last 200+ years here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conserv..._United_States

It's never too late to learn that things are not always exactly as we would like them to be. I do my very best to be open and pay attention to opposing views to mine, even when it's hard to do so. I dislike the false comfort of cementing my beliefs to the point that when legitimate, objective proof does present itself that my belief is flawed or my opinion not correct, I'm so shut down I'm not willing to listen.

I've listened respectfully to you, OhioFiler, agreed with some of what you said, and provided proof that some of your beliefs are not correct....now have you listened as respectfully to me?

And you know, sometimes it's just fine to agree to disagree and move on too

Obama's bipartisanship has been more for show than anything. Despite the words and gestures nothing bipartisan has actually emerged in congress or passed during his administration.

It isn't the words of a man that you use to measure him, but the fruit he bears. To date his fruit has indeed mostly been to the left while he ran on a campaign of staying in the middle. That's also why his poll numbers have been dropping.

I pray daily that he is not assassinated. Studying American history the country has been unforgiving for the most part of those that took over in economic hard times. Several of those presidents were assassinated. FDR slowly died from the burden of office, had he not served as President for so long he may have lived another couple of decades.

Fundamentally I see Congress and the President as having flawed plans. This based on my experience with bankruptcy. I know the dangers of overspending, and it pays to be frugal. It is time to make the painful cuts that are necessary to right our nation, not just in defense ( I agree with scrapping the F-22) but in all areas of government. However like the Congress and Presidents before them they hope to band aid it and kick it to the next guy.

They realize that whoever has to make the painful cuts even though they will be doing what is necessary for the long term of our nation will not be reelected. That is why there is not the will to make the changes needed whether it is a R president with a R congress or a D president with a D congress.

That's the greatest flaw of our system. A two party system cannot be free. There is no way 2 parties can represent the views of 330 million people. I think it shameful that the Iraqi elections had more people seeking fewer jobs than we do. Shameful that a nation that is suppose to be the bastion of democracy (When in actuality we are a republic not a democracy) has suppressed choice for years.

George Washington warned us well of what would come from partisan politics, warned against political parties, and said that if we did not heed that warning and allowed them to continue unfettered then it would be the doom of the nation.

The problem is that it is not something that can be changed quickly or even on the national level. Each individual state has to change its laws to make the ballot access more open, that we might have more free elections. I have been actively involved in petitioning my state representatives to implement election reforms, it appears we may get some, not as much as I'd like but at least a step in the right direction here in NC.

Ultimately if you are dependent on the government for everything you are no longer free.

[OhioFiler]

I prefer to work with people and compromise because I realize that nobody can have their own way all the time. It's something I learned in kindergarten.


In one post you accuse someone of causing the divide in this country and in another you are saying that you are glad there is a divide. Were you glad the divide existed when Bush was in office?


I'm far from angry. I'm just pointing out that you do the exact same thing that you accuse others of doing. Nothing more, nothing less.



Thanks for the semantics lesson, but truthfully I am not interested in it. When somebody starts correcting grammar and semantics it usually means they have no real answer to the discussion at hand. You know you intend to be condescending and have no defense for it, it has nothing to do with my interpretation.




You claimed that "a Fascist Dictator referred to liberals in America as Useful Idiots". I asked you to prove that "historical claim" and you still have not done it. That term was used to describe communist sympathizers in the west more than 50 years ago. More recently right wingers have used it to describe left wingers, but the last time I checked right wingers are not "fascist dictators." Or are they...

I try not to rely on my kindergarten training when dealing with issues such as foreign affairs. I prefer a more grown up approach to life. Since you suggest compromise is the way to deal with issues I'd love to read your concept of compromise on the issue of abortion.

Accusing someone of creating a divide is not the same as opposing divide. I learned that in first grade. The issue our country should not be divided on is the execution of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. We should all support our troops in harm's way yet many liberals do not (i.e. Pelosi, Reid, Murtha. NYT, Washington Post, LA Times, Moveon crowd, Sheehan, Obama).

It is your great leader, The Annointed One, who said "words matter." Thus the semantics lesson as you refer to it. You missed my point though. My point was you can "hear" anything you want when you read. You choose the tone and emotion in the written word. You may read it wrong. Nothing more, nothing less.


Communist sympathizers were 100% without question liberals. None were conservatives. None. You've made my point. The only issue in dispute is whether it was Stalin or Lenin who put forth the concept.

You have a great weekend!

This thread is now closed as to my involvement per lrprn's wishes. Ya'll may carry on without me if you so choose. I'm outta here.

[mgmadara]

We've reached the point in this thread where it's time to agree to disagree and move on. No one is listening to the opposing viewpoint any longer - all energies are now devoted to winning the point at all costs. It's not constructive dialog any longer, and is now edging into name-calling and insults on both sides.

Every member here has the right to believe what they want. However, repeating both sides of our political ideologies over and over in post after post has become redundant. Several members are now complaining behind the scenes using infractions and PMs to the moderators asking us to step in and control this thread or close it.

Everyone knows where the conservatives, liberals, and independents posting here stand on their political beliefs. Enough already - it's time to cease and desist the political rock throwing. Nothing our more conservative members say is going to change the mind of our more liberal members and vice versa. Time to let others in to share their thoughts. Let's get back to a civilized discussion.

If these "I will win my political point at all costs" posts continue from the same small group of members, because of the growing number of complaints from other members about the tone and disrespect they see which violate our forum rules, we mods will be forced to close this thread to further posts. I would hate to see this happen because our democracy is founded on the open exchange of ideas. But at some point, when the same points have been pounded home again and again with escalating vitriol, let's step back from the brink and return this discussion to President Obama's attempts to improve the economy, not a rant arguing whether conservatives, liberals, or independents in this country have the "one and only right way of thinking."

Everyone thinks what they think is the one and true way - we've seen that in many posts here - enough already; Other members, even those not posting on this thread, get it. No need to keep smashing everyone's faces into it. Time to agree to disagree and return control of this thread to other members who would like to get a word in edgewise.

Like jeb, I will respect your wishes and apologize to anyone I may have offended.

Also, if anybody got the trojan from Ohiofiler, send me a PM and I can tell you where to go to have it removed for free. I'm currently training in malware removal and luckily I know how to protect myself and I never even realized it was there.

[jeb]

Human nature being what it is, when the bullets start flying, everyone not directly involved in the flame war of words ducks and scatters to not get hit by flying syllable shrapnel

When the intense verbal firefight ends, folks that see a lull in the action will carefully inch out of hiding and hopefully start up a respectful discussion here again. Jeb, thanks for cooperating to make that possible!

You are right, of course.

Here's to those hiding coming out into the light. - jb

[CompTweaker]

This is the way I work. Posts tend to lose merit and respect when name calling starts.....especially in political posts where you want what you say to hold value. The term "Hypocrite" has been over used, in my opinion (I thought name calling wasnt allowed here anyway). While I welcome both sides, I also welcome both to check attitudes at the door. It was assumed by a certain poster that I was Republican when I'm an Independant who leans Conservative. Anyway, I spent too much time in other forums discussing the likes of everything political. That was when I had plenty of time to do so.....not so much now. Theres black and white and then theres the gray in between (nothing to do with racial tones or divide) just, in general. Everyone has their own interpretations, especially in the gray areas.

[CompTweaker]

Like jeb, I will respect your wishes and apologize to anyone I may have offended.

Also, if anybody got the trojan from Ohiofiler, send me a PM and I can tell you where to go to have it removed for free. I'm currently training in malware removal and luckily I know how to protect myself and I never even realized it was there.

Oh please, so you're saying Ohiofiler sent you something to download and you downloaded it? Surely you wouldnt do that....and Im sure he wouldnt send you something like that.

Stop the childish BS and move on if thats the last bit of ammo you can muster against somebody. I hope you know that making those kind of allegations are very serious!

[jeb]

The fact is there is not a single member of the senate who has served more than 2 terms that is not more interested in their own self indulgence than in serving the people, regardless of party or lack of party.

The same is true of the House who have served for 4 or more terms.

JR, this very statement is why so many in this country supported President Obama - he seemed to offer something different. It is now up to us to see that he lives up to what we expect of him. Not everything we individually expect, of course, but in balance, do what is right for the people and the country.

What a breath of fresh air that would be - no matter which side of the aisle one supports. - jb

[mgmadara]

Oh please, so you're saying Ohiofiler sent you something to download and you downloaded it? Surely you wouldnt do that....and Im sure he wouldnt send you something like that.

Stop the childish BS and move on if thats the last bit of ammo you can muster against somebody. I hope you know that making those kind of allegations are very serious!

If you go back and look at the post where he posted the link you will see that the link was removed by a moderator because the website had a trojan attached to it. I am not saying that he did it on purpose I am simply offering to help people who might have gotten it, including ohiofiler if he got it. Thanks for attacking me, though.

[CompTweaker]

If you go back and look at the post where he posted the link you will see that the link was removed by a moderator because the website had a trojan attached to it. I am not saying that he did it on purpose I am simply offering to help people who might have gotten it, including ohiofiler if he got it. Thanks for attacking me, though.

My bad, I didnt know about the link posted that was removed.....sorry for the misunderstanding. I havent been able to keep up with this thread a whole lot.

[mgmadara]

My bad, I didnt know about the link posted that was removed.....sorry for the misunderstanding. I havent been able to keep up with this thread a whole lot.

Thanks for the apology. I can understand why you haven't kept up with the thread and I apologize for my part in that. Have a great holiday weekend!!

[JRScott]

JR, this very statement is why so many in this country supported President Obama - he seemed to offer something different. It is now up to us to see that he lives up to what we expect of him. Not everything we individually expect, of course, but in balance, do what is right for the people and the country.

What a breath of fresh air that would be - no matter which side of the aisle one supports. - jb

To date though we've not seen much new come from him. He has decidedly allowed most of his agenda to be set in congress by Reid and Pelosi both of whom lean hard left, while he mostly ran on a middle of the road campaign.

Ultimately it is probably what will end his presidency at one term as well, much like George H. W. Bush's now infamous promise of "No New Taxes".

[OhioFiler]

Like jeb, I will respect your wishes and apologize to anyone I may have offended.

Also, if anybody got the trojan from Ohiofiler, send me a PM and I can tell you where to go to have it removed for free. I'm currently training in malware removal and luckily I know how to protect myself and I never even realized it was there.

My bad if the link had a trojan on it. I was searching for something close to the source for your benefit, nothing more nor less. I find your statement distasteful. No one "got the trojan" from me. You could have referred to "the website listed on OhioFiler's post above" as the source but instead you did not. Words mean something. I learned that in preschool.

Happy Easter!

[OhioFiler]

JR, this very statement is why so many in this country supported President Obama - he seemed to offer something different. It is now up to us to see that he lives up to what we expect of him. Not everything we individually expect, of course, but in balance, do what is right for the people and the country.

What a breath of fresh air that would be - no matter which side of the aisle one supports. - jb

The Tea Parties scheduled across America on April 15th are non-partisan. Everyone should participate if they can. We need to let Congress know over-taxing and over-spending are going to destroy this nation for our children.


*NOW this thread is closed to me! You all have a great Easter!