TurboTax~Never Again!

[justbroke]

I won't do a damned thing until I determine why my paperwork changed.
This is after the fact. What don't you understand. My stuff was filed a month ago and the refund and bills owed are paid and past tense.
I would not file anything based on a mistake on their site and at this point that is what i must consider has happened.
And one more time as you appear to be dense, I don't do the math, their system does!

Trust me... I'm not dense... I'm a tax preparer.

I was making sure you understand that regardless of what mathematical errors were made or not... you are ultimately responsible.

Having wrote that, I can't believe that TurboTax (of which I'm a professional software user), performs "audits" or "checks" of the return, without paying a fee. This is because they like to charge for such services, and I've never heard of them doing it for free (gratis). (When I write "gratis", I mean it's a separate servie and not included in the standard filing fee.)

I'm just concerned, for you, that you may be too lax about any underpayment or other problems. This problem will mushroom if April 15th passes. I want you to be aware of that as this will create more tax liability on you (underpayment, late payment penalties, interest, etc).

[TooMuchCredit]

I know I can go in after I have filed and change figures and it will recalculate new totals. I went in to estimate what my refund/what I would owe if I didn't have the interest from my 2nd mortgage. I put it back to what it was originally. If you go in after you file you can affect the numbers. Not saying you did, just saying that it doesn't lock things down when you file.

[kenshirley]

Exactly, that their program makes those changes in simple math using their software.
And if justbroke does not understand how that software works, he or she should not be preparing taxes for anyone!
Many people file for other people, but if you name does not go on the bottom as the preparer something is lacking.
And if you were filing (preparing) paperwork for others using the individual software it was not your name as a preparer on the bottom of the form but that off the taxpayers and you know it.
And if you are telling people what's deductible in many states you are in violation of the law without a license to do so.
But then again you were trying to use individual software for a business function and didn't figure out you were violating copyright laws either..

[justbroke]

I have no idea what you're even talking about kenshirley! You have gone from blaming TurboTax to blaming me? I just don't get where I said anything about telling people what to deduct? Where did that come from? My name is on the bottom of the returns that I charge for.

Also, you are wrong in that you didn't read that I use TurboTax Professional. So... I don't se how you make a connection that it's the regular version. (About 10 years ago, I did 5 people's returns with the package and PAID FOR EACH RETURN and TurboTax sent me TurboTax Professional to which I'm now subscribed.) By the way, that's not a copyright infringement. It would be a license infringement. And, if you read the license, it does read that you can use it for up to 5 e-file returns and unlimited paper returns. (And, to make it more fun, that's an IRS limit, and not a licensing limit.)

In case you're wondering... I do read license agreements, as I've written them in the past. Here's the one which is actually from the IRS and NOT a copyright or even a licensing issue...

ou can prepare and print unlimited federal returns and e-file up to five federal returns (per IRS guidelines) with TurboTax at no additional charge. You get all the features and benefits of TurboTax, like year-over-year transfer and audit support tools.

The limit is on e-filing only, and not on preparing and printing. Just in case you can't find that information handy.

Anyhow... the absolute bottom line is, that you are responsible for what you submit... regardless of what the software did.

I probably understand software better than most people on this board, including, but not limited to, IRS back-end systems.

I was trying to help you, but you have turned this into some sort of personal attack on me. I wish you the best in figuring out what went wrong, rather than attempt to manufacture reasons why I shouldn't be preparing taxes for anyone.

in case you're wondering, you can read about TurboTax Professional (ProSeries) here... http://accountant.intuit.com/products/tax/index.aspx

[kenshirley]

Nobody cares about you or your business as an amateur tax preparer. And my post was not meant to discuss the merits of using TT or not. I too was very happy with it until they made this paperwork goof.
I posted this to let folks know that I used thier online system and found after the fact that they had illegally modified my paperwork that they store online for me (and would in fact be used should I use their system next year).
I have used their over the counter software for some 11 years or more before switching to the online versions a few years back.
This modification to my paperwork showing some $2000 less in itemized deductions was done without notification to me and after my refund from the state and payment had been made to the feds.
If you are too dense to understand that you should not be assisting anyone with anything let alone taxes.
I simply wanted folks that have already used their system to go back and check their returns and payments or refunds to make sure they reflected what they actually paid. Mine did not and again I was not notified any changes had taken place.
For a company to do business like this is a disgrace and then to offer no explanation for what they did is flat stupid.

[justbroke]

My words obvious don't work. Yes, I'm concerned that you got incorrect data on your returns. What I was adding was that anyone, regardless of what tax program they used, should always double check what it outputs (which you said you did), but ultimately have the responsibility of what is sent regardless of error or fault.

Do you know what most people who work at H&R Block are "amateur" tax preparers who only do it seasonally, and are not accountants?

As far fetched as it may seem to you... I am actually curious as to where the error was introduced. That's why I asked what was the cause of the misfile. If it's a product issue, sure I'm interested in it. I have heard of others with State specific issues, but not on the federal (1040) portion.

And just like you, and as I posted in this thread, I want people to always check whatever they file I encourage as much, regardless of how it was prepared. Other than that, I don't know why you are so anti-information. I'm not going to offer any suggestions on solving it with Intuit Software, so I will leave it at that. Again, I do hope that you find what the issue was, and post it here for everyone.

[kenshirley]

I have told you that the error was introduced apparently in the total dollars of itemized deductions. That value went down by just over $2000.
This of course resulted in higher taxes for both the state and federal returns.
In my case it meant (according to the new paperwork that now shows on their site, not what was filed) I should have gotten $58 less back from the state than I really did and paid another $53 on my federal return which also did not happen as scheduled yesterday. I paid the original figure to the IRS according to my original paperwork that I printed at the time of acceptance on 2 Feb. At least TT got that right. If they had taken more $ we would be in a legal action shortly.
Why did the paperwork change and why without notice of any kind? Who knows. Their customer service doesn't.
You know as well as I do using this software the customer does no math. The software ask you what amount you have in the form of questions for each category for itemized deductions and you provide it and it totals each area and does the math for you.
Was this a math error in their software? Hard to believe to me. Was it some sort of a change in the laws at the last minute that were applied at the last minute. I doubt it.
TurboTax has no response they can offer via the phone and they have yet to reply to my feedback on thier site.
They are in fact in denial that this happened at this time.
Yet I have the original paperwork printed as filed from their website which would in fact be hard to dispute in a court of law as the refund and payments match what was actually done.
I do have a bit of experience with software and hardware relating to computers. It was my trade until retirement.
I also have just a little bit of experience regarding the laws and rules of evidence and if this matter ever had to go to court based on their new paperwork they have a real problem proving their case.
But on the other hand it did happen and I certainly will not use their software or website next year as the figures they now show are not fact and do no correctly reflect my filings, payments or refunds as they were done by them just one month ago.
I have little tolerance for incompetence or stupidity. And when a company does business like this people need to know about it.

[justbroke]

It sounds like you tried everything to resolve with Intuit/TurboTax. It would be really interesting to know if they changed some calculations. Everytime I start up Pro, it checks for updates, and seems to always update!!! That should say something. Many of the corrections don't affect me, but I'm sure they constantly find small glitches. I think it was Angelina or Flamingo who had State tax return issues with TurboTax.

I think the only thing that you can get from Intuit is a refund of the fees. I know that many years ago, (H&R Block) TaxCut made egregious errors on my return. They only offered me a refund of the cost of the software. (That's why I switched to TurboTax and then Professional. However, I don't think any of them are 100% faultless.)

[JoeBankrupt33]

Kenshirley,

Do you have a printout of the original Schedule A and the modified Schedule A. From here, you should be able to determine where the $2000 modification was made. Also, you should be able to determine which of the two versions is correct.

I understand your anger at TT, but, as justbroke has said, the IRS doesn't care who makes the mathematical mistake, it is your responsibility in the end. So, right now, you absolutely need to find out if the old version was correct or if the modified version is correct. If it turns out that the modified version is correct, then you will need to file an amended return and pay the additional money to the IRS and the state.

[kenshirley]

Funny thing is today I got a survey offer from TT to respond to how I was treated by the CS Rep that told me that what I told her could not happen.
Well I filled out their stupid survey and told them what happened that upset me.
When I hit the button to send the survey this is what I got back~

"An error occurred while processing the survey. Please contact your survey administrator.
Object reference not set to an instance of an object."

Their survey is not working either, and yes I tried multiple times to send it to them with the same problem.
And as far as I am concerned I have to do nothing at this point. You people are missing the point completely.
The paperwork I have is what was filed with the state and federal governments. I got the correct refund and made the correct payment to the IRS in accordance with my original filing on 2 Feb.
My complaint is that subsequent to that TurboTax made changed to my paperwork that is stored on their site without notification.And this new paperwork does not reflect an amendment, rather it reflects that this is the paperwork that they filed on my behalf. Let us get serious here. What don't you people understand about the problem?
This therefore negates my use of their site next year as the paperwork is not correct.
If they forwarded this false paperwork to the taxing entities I am sure I will get letters from them wondering what the hell is going on. But TT is in denial about what I told them so they certainly cannot tell me if the new paperwork version was sent or not. I am almost certain as my payment to the IRS yesterday as arranged by me to the IRS was in fact correct that the only error that occurred was the changed in the paperwork stored on their site and therefore means nothing to anyone except me.
But as TT is in denial that what I am saying is true and their system is indeed screwed up at this point regarding which paperwork was filed I will not get anywhere with them I am sure.
If I suffer any legal repercussions as a result of this error I can prove I had nothing to do with it so it's not a problem for me at this point. I have copies of both the correct and incorrect paperwork and receipts for the correct monies due and the refund reflecting the amounts shown on the original and what I consider to be the correct paperwork at this point.
And until TT wants to explain to me and perhaps the state and the IRS as to how they can make changes in that paperwork without my authorization and consent after the fact I am not going to worry about it any further.
At this point I can prove my case in court. TT can't.

[justbroke]

ken, the survey thing sums it all up for me! To have it crash as well, is priceless. I'm hoping that you get some sort of monetary compensation from TT and hence my interest in seeing what happens.

[kenshirley]

Yes I thought the survey thing kind of went over the top too.
Maybe in all the confusion with layoffs and and such they laid the wrong guy off. I have seen it before!
I don't know why this kind of crap seems to follow me around but I am more than willing to take an issue on when the need arises.
I have had a lot of experience in courts and only lost (draw if you will) one time so my record is pretty good.
I don't want compensation. I would much rather there system just worked for me as it has for 14 years.
I remember once in the early days it screwed up on me somehow and I called the CEOs secretary. The problem was fixed very quickly and t he following year I got a free copy of their software as an apology.
When you want something fixed quickly I guess the answer is to get to the working class person with some pull!

[justbroke]

I hear you ken, I hear you. I only like monetary awards because they are punitive -- or at least should be. If they get off with a "sorry", then that doesn't hurt them. In order to correct abhorrent behavior, it's important to have equitable punishment. Of course, I really wouldn't care (much) about getting $58 back myself... but...

[kenshirley]

Yes is retirement getting anything extra is a bonus.
The best thing about retirement is that I have a good trout lake just 4 miles from the house and I go often!
The best thing I suppose about retirement of course is not having to go to work everyday and face the other village idiots of course.

[justbroke]

Must be nice (fishing at will)!!!