Big 3 bailout folds

[Genenco]

[AngelinaCatHub]

Another domino for the economy, and another coffin nail for the union.

Remember the union, Eastern Airlines, would not budge. Eastern gone, jobs gone, union members shoot foot.

[banca rotta]

I can't believe the UAW put their own petty issues over saving the industry.

I happen to agree with a bailout to save the industry as long as every party of interest makes serious concessions.

It's crazy that GM will be bankrupt in 3 weeks and all the union members will be unemployed and they wouldn't even budge on this. All they had to do was at least bring their costs to the same level as the foreign auto makers.

Personally I only feel bad for the rest of us. As for the UAW happy landings. A lot of shopping carts and bottles are out there to keep you busy in the new year when you finish waving your signs.

[Bandit]

the us government does not care if those companies go under. they have not cared for the last 30 years when companies go under because the rich have traded the USA for foreign markets. what we are headed for is china wages for the greater population of the USA and that is exactly where the wealthy of the globe want it to be.

Odd how the price of autos go up, the price of oil goes up the cost to make the parts in china goes down, they demand to pay china wages to the USA workers, so they can what? go bankrupt either way? Someone is making money doing that but it aint the people who do the slave labor.
so, we pay higher prices for cars & gasoline & get payed lower wages & give up benefits. oh that makes sense to me.

not only do they want the unions gone, they will disolve the company itself with or without a union by giving it away or crushing it. we don't need ford or gm. we have toyota & honda and have sold out the auto industry to other countries just like the textile and every other industry that used to be in the USA. I guess we have fogotten that in Japan the government pays for health insurance while people in the USA are not allowed to have such a thing these days -even if you make a deal with the devil, you will still lose.

[Overmylimit]

I would rather have a job that pays decent pay and has benefits even if it was reduced rather than lose all together. I live in California and I see it all the time, nobody wants reduced pay even if they have to go without.....crazy

[Bandit]

and one other thing they never tell you is that toyota is not hiring full time help like our old factories did, but is loaded with temporary & part time laborers & you don't get squat. Thanks for those kinds of jobs, Japan!

[justbroke]

I've been actually contemplating taking reduced salary, should the heads start rolling at my company. I'm sure we'll be singing the blues as headcount is reduced next year. We are big in the financial services and automotive industries! We will be affected.

So I was thinking that I would take up to a 20% pay cut in order to keep my job. It would be highly worth it.

And, they need to start paying me in Ameros.

[Bandit]

I would rather have a job that pays decent pay and has benefits even if it was reduced rather than lose all together. I live in California and I see it all the time, nobody wants reduced pay even if they have to go without.....crazy

but the question is, why are we reducing pay when prices keep going up & parts are being made cheaper in china & mexico?
we aint just going to be getting reduced pay, we will all be lucky if we are getting minimum wage with not a drop of benefits. The very thing that made this country strong has been given away and that was the moral & value of employees who work hard and make the rich money should in return be taken care of.

That value has not existed for 20 years and here we are paying for it finally.

Those people who take a half cut in pay will lose thier homes and be in BK either way. It is a no win situation for those who do the physical labor.

[Bandit]

I've been actually contemplating taking reduced salary, should the heads start rolling at my company. I'm sure we'll be singing the blues as headcount is reduced next year. We are big in the financial services and automotive industries! We will be affected.

So I was thinking that I would take up to a 20% pay cut in order to keep my job. It would be highly worth it.

And, they need to start paying me in Ameros.

20%?...you make too much money. you need to give up 50% of your pay and no more health insurance for you. No Ameros either. Just good old cheap american cash. we will be equal with mexico pay in about 10 years if this keeps up.

[justbroke]

20%?...you make too much money. you need to give up 50% of your pay and no more health insurance for you. No Ameros either. Just good old cheap american cash. we will be equal with mexico pay in about 10 years if this keeps up.

50%... I'd have to move back in with my mom... LOL.

I may take Pesos.

[Hillbilly]

I seriously doubt that UAW concessions would have significantly altered the final vote. The resistance was to far more than simply UAW intransigence, which is only one relatively small piece of the pie, just a convenient but temporary excuse, even if concessions had been promised, the opponents would have just substituted a different objection.
The dominoes are all in a row, and on edge, the row has already started its collapse, while our leaders are just sitting on their hands dicking around.
If they don't stretch out a hand to stop it soon , there won't be nothing left to make it worth stopping.
If the US automakers do go under, they will take a huge segment of the entire US labor force, and also many foreign manufactures and workers under with them.
Think things are bad now, 10% unemployment, could easily rocket to levels this country has never seen before, not even during The Great Depression.
We are no longer an industrial, nor an agricultural society, manufacturing and farm jobs are simply no longer available to pull us out of the pit.
McD's and Wallyworld doesn't have enough job openings to provide employment to the wave that's coming, and the millions of unemployed will have no income nor credit to spend there anyway.
Who's to blame? We have met the enemy, and we are them.
Decades of electing government leaders who sold America down river, by allowing and encouraging a mass exodus of good paying manufacturing jobs to foreign countries.
Then we have all of those patriotic Americans that just have to drive a Japanese vehicle, even if doing so means that half of the people in their communities lose their jobs as the local manufactures are shuttered, and their children and grandchildren can no longer find more than minimum wage employment.....if that.
I'm an old man now, retired for over a decade. I marvel, and often am disgusted with how "we the people" have so short-sightedly conducted our affairs, and so short- changed ourselves, our posterity, and the entire world.
Can we redeem ourselves from the mess that we have made? Who knows?
But the start will have be in our own homes, in our own communities, and in our own personal choices, no amount of government bailouts can make up for the decades of economic sins of an entire nation.
The government cannot "fix" this problem alone, the real "fix" has to come from the bottom, from the strength and the resolve of every little brick at the bottom, upon which the entire pyramid of our national economy rests.
Those shining capstones, the large corporations, do not support the pyramid, but the millions of small and often invisible bricks bear the weight of it all.
Look around at your neighbors, and for once consider what impact your purchase decisions will have on them, or no matter how wealthy you have became, the day may come when you wake up some morning in the last inhabited house on your block, with no water, no electricity, and nothing to eat, and no place to buy it.

[Hillbilly]

I should mention that my daughter and my son-in-law are both employed, each at a wage that is less than what I started at in 1968! But they are glad that they found jobs!
We got into this "Free market" race........straight to the bottom.

[HHM]

Please, big picture for a moment...

Why do jobs go oversees, because those countries can build it cheaper...and frankly, that means we, as consumers pay less. Let's not be hypocrites, if PC's were built in the US, they would cost twice as much...which would you buy, the $1500 PC built in the US, or essentially the same PC built over seas that costs $699.

There is an argument to be made that there should be some government support of industry because foreign governments support their industries, but the supporting industry for the sake of jobs...Should we have supported the type-writing manufacturing industry in the face of the computer revolution?

[Hillbilly]

Again, for equal products, you choice of the over seas $699 PC is going to transfer US wealth to a foreign manufacturer, and that one less sale may be the one that causes a competing US firm to make the business decision to pink-slip another 300 workers.
Now repeat that scenario a hundred or more times a day.
You saved $800 on one purchase, but karma being, down the road, it could end up costing you your job, your car, your home, and any hope of ever regaining the lifestyle you once enjoyed.
Make no mistake, there is always a price to pay, and its usually not the one appearing on the price tag.

[Bandit]

Please, big picture for a moment...

Why do jobs go oversees, because those countries can build it cheaper...and frankly, that means we, as consumers pay less. Let's not be hypocrites, if PC's were built in the US, they would cost twice as much...which would you buy, the $1500 PC built in the US, or essentially the same PC build over seas that costs $699.

There is an argument to be made that there should be some government support of industry because foreign governments support their industries, but the supporting industry for the sake of jobs...Should we have supported the type-writing manufacturing industry in the face of the computer revolution?

Big Picture...we have NOT been paying less while the wealthy skimmed all the cream off the top for 2 decades. It was made cheaper overseas to take advantage of poor people and that is exactly what has destroyed this country. Now we produce nothing and all that money was given to another country. That is the big picture.