Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin

[lrprn]

I also find it curious that Biden was implemental in passing the 2005 bankruptcy laws and that at that time, his son made a substantial sum as a consultant for MBNA, one of the biggest lobbiests for the new laws.

Yes, nothing for Biden to be proud of there.

For those who are curious, Senator McCain and Senator Biden voted for the 2005 bankruptcy law, Senator Obama was one of the small minority that did not. Senator Hillary Clinton voted "Present" - neither yes or no.

[banca rotta]

Yes, nothing for Biden to be proud of there.

For those who are curious, Senator McCain and Senator Biden voted for the 2005 bankruptcy law, Senator Obama was one of the small minority that did not. Senator Hillary Clinton voted "Present" - neither yes or no.

I never agreed with the stupid bk reforms of 05 but it's a small issue in a nation of 300 million to vote for a president for.

I wouldn't vote for a president just because he or she voted down the bk laws but also wants to have a cup of tea with enemys of America. Barack Osama wants to negotiate with the leader of Iran when their starting point is to kill Americans and wipe Israel from the face of the earth.

I will fill out a means test form and have a leader that won't bargain with our enemy's thank you.

[PoorGrammyinBK7]

I used to agree with this but I no longer do. The American people are really not stupid. We are the best at everything!

We are not drinking the koolaid and buying what they tell us anymore. More and more Americans feel Congress is to blame for some of the problems we are facing. This seems like a new concept since most people always used to blame the president.

We are all smarter then the stupid media thinks and it's showing up in their financial statements since so many news papers and network tv stations are hurting in the ratings. I couldn't be more pleased.

I am very happy when these bums are unemployed and broke and I hope the pain keeps coming their way. I also hope life gets better for the rest of us that love our country unlike them.

I agree with you in that Americans ARE smart and are finally starting to "wise up" to the unscrupulous tactics of the media. They were constantly pushing Gore and then even more so with Kerry, but Americans did not blindly follow their lead as they had expected.

But they haven't given up and are still at it, trying harder than ever - both subliminally and blatantly.

Candidates are dressed up, made over and presented like Hollywood movie stars and Hollywood actors and others in the industry LOVE to talk politics and espouse their opinions, as if they are somehow better informed than the rest of us! I fail to see WHY their opinions should matter to any of us, but the "news" media is sure to let us know about it, as if their opinions are "news". Candidates almost have to appear on all the talk shows and are talked about incessantly even when they aren't there. Movies and TV shows have mostly liberal political agendas continually running through them. Its just everywhere. And respect for those who do serve is a thing of the past - most of that due to the media as well.

[fltoo]

Sorry - wrong. Obama was a Illinois state senator for 7 years before he became their national senator in Congress in 2004. That's a lot more governing experience than two years as the mayor of a small town of 9,000 with a balanced budget due to oil profits then less than two years as governor.

I agree you about this 100%, BR. This is what our founding fathers envisioned. Nearly every time we've 'rushed off the edge of a cliff' as a country, it's been because of the lack of the checks and balances system inside our government.

A senator is not in a governing position as you stated.

[epiphany]

I will fill out a means test form and have a leader that won't bargain with our enemy's thank you.

If you'd have asked me right after 9/11, I would have agreed with you. I had a kill or be killed mentality. However, I have seen where that has NOT gotten us.

I am willing to give diplomacy a try. I think Osama's approach is to "reason", not "bargain". He said in his speech the other night, that he will be tough if needed. Yes, I have my doubts that this approach will work and I know that the enemy probably cannot be reasoned with but the current system is failing miserably and I resent trillions of dollars being spent on another country when people are starving here.

Now, before anyone replies that the fact that we have not been attacked on our own soil since 9/11 is proof that the current system does work, I would remind you that the current administration refuses to secure our own borders and we are just as vunerable as we were back then.

ep

[epiphany]

Candidates are dressed up, made over and presented like Hollywood movie stars and Hollywood actors and others in the industry LOVE to talk politics and espouse their opinions, as if they are somehow better informed than the rest of us!

You know what I find particularily amusing? Not about the candidates but about the politicians in general? There are so many obvious toupes riding the heads in the congress and senate and they look absolutely ridiculous. I have a tough time taking any man with a toupe seriously.

Sorry, off topic.

ep

[fltoo]

LOLOLOL omg, you are so politically incorrect.

[banca rotta]

If you'd have asked me right after 9/11, I would have agreed with you. I had a kill or be killed mentality. However, I have seen where that has NOT gotten us.

I am willing to give diplomacy a try. I think Osama's approach is to "reason", not "bargain". He said in his speech the other night, that he will be tough if needed. Yes, I have my doubts that this approach will work and I know that the enemy probably cannot be reasoned with but the current system is failing miserably and I resent trillions of dollars being spent on another country when people are starving here.

Now, before anyone replies that the fact that we have not been attacked on our own soil since 9/11 is proof that the current system does work, I would remind you that the current administration refuses to secure our own borders and we are just as vunerable as we were back then.

ep

[lrprn]

A senator is not in a governing position as you stated.

Sigh....a semantics argument. Ok, let's see...

Definition of "govern" - "To make and administer the public policy and affairs of; to exercise sovereign authority in;To control the actions or behavior of; to keep under control; to restrain; To exercise a deciding or determining influence on; To control the speed, flow etc. ..." From en.wiktionary.org/wiki/govern

Or this definition from www.dictionary.com:
1. to rule over by right of authority: to govern a nation.
2. to exercise a directing or restraining influence over; guide: the motives governing a decision.
3. to hold in check; control: to govern one's temper.
4. to serve as or constitute a law for: the principles governing a case.
5. Grammar. to be regularly accompanied by or require the use of (a particular form). In They helped us, the verb helped governs the objective case of the pronoun we.
6. to regulate the speed of (an engine) with a governor.
–verb (used without object)
7. to exercise the function of government.
8. to have predominating influence.

So according to these definitions, a state senator, a national senator, and a state governor all 'govern'.

[epiphany]

Who's forgetting? Who's forgving? While I agree that there are people who have become complacent, I don't consider myself one of them.

You are right though, I do not live forever on 9/12/01 and I don't think it would be healthy to do so.

I just want someone, anyone to do the right thing, and I'm not even sure what that is. Until there is a proven formula, there will unfortunately be much trial and error.

I believe in the Patriot Act by the way..(ooooooooo, I'm gonna get tarred and feathered for that one)...I think it has warded off some serious threats.

The thing is, I don't know what the answer is. All I know is we haven't found it yet so we have to keep looking.

The problem with this country, while it can be argued that the American people are not stupid all day long, is that not enough people pay attention to what's going on. Many people go into the voting booth and use an eeny meeny miny mo method to cast their ballot when they are unfamiliar with an issue.

Too many people will either not bother to vote, or not bother to even familarize themselves with the candidates. Have you ever seen one of those guy on the street interviews where at least half of the public cannot name the current vice president?

I didn't mean to twist the discussion into something else. Just want you to know that I do not take the current election or 9/11 and its aftermath lightly. And in no way do I believe that's is over. But it certainly is not 9/12/01. If it was, you and I would still be on the same page.

ep

[JRScott]

The problem is the Republicans and Democrats who have jointly controlled this nation for 150 years. It is not one party or the other. The largest blame has to fall upon Congress itself because it is the one that passes the laws, however the President shares blame when he does not veto bad legislation, even if Congress can override his veto.

You will not get national health care regardless of whether McCain or Obama is elected. The bottom truth is the government can't afford it and that is why no one in the last 2 years of the Democratic Lead Congress has introduced it. It is also why it failed during the Clinton Administration. Even if you completely dismantled our entire military, it still would not give enough money to run a national health care system. Americans are starting to wake up but in truth our government is bankrupt and has been for about two to three decades. Yes I know on paper Clinton had budget surpluses but even in those years the national debt still rose it was all a lie. They play shell games with the paperwork to make it look better than it is.

FDR's policies and programs did not end the Great Depression, they prolonged the Great Depression. Excessive government spending has led our nation to having a tax burden that is actually greater than the burden we rebelled against in 1776. Big government means larger taxes.

Americans need to become self sufficient again, stop relying on the government to do everything for you. The government can only provide everything for you if they take everything from you. It is the only way.

The financial situation of the government will only worsen in the next decade. Your taxes will go up unless there is reform in government spending and a reduction in government programs. This is irregardless of who is President and who is in Congress.

We have gotten to this situation because of Congress neglect in its constitutional duties. They in the 1930s disposed of their constitutional duty to oversee the currency of the United States by forming the Federal Reserve Bank. Since the late 70s they have ignored their constitutional duties to write the actual laws they pass by passing such work to professional bureaucrats. Starting in the mid 80s they stopped even reading the bills they pass. If you don't write the bill and you don't read it, how can you know what you are passing? Since the 30s they have increasingly taken control of areas that were not enumerated unto them in the Constitution but were rather enumerated to the States and this has caused a balloon effect on the spending of the Federal Government.

The Presidents of the last 70 years are not blameless either. They should have been using their veto power more often to curb spending and unconstitutional programs.

These are the effects of our nation ignoring the warning George Washington gave in his farewell address:

http://www.earlyamerica.com/earlyamerica/milestones/farewell/text.html

These are dangerous waters and times for our nation. It is a time we need to realize that the R and D have done more harm in the last 100 years than good. They have sought to enslave the people to them. For is a man truly free even if he has food and clothing and shelter yet the government takes half of all he has. That is where we are headed, half and even more if we allow Federal Programs to continue as they are or introduce new ones. It is time for us to become self sufficient again to become as America of a younger day. Then reliance on oneself, one's family, one's community and one's church was more important that reliance or hand outs from the Federal Government. Government regulations leads to increased cost of goods and services as do government taxes. It is time to awake our minds and realize the simple basic truths. To be free we must be self reliant.

If we do not change course in the next decade it is likely the 22nd century will start with a United States bereft of hope, security, liberty, and strength.

[fltoo]

Sorry Iprnr

The senate is not a governing body. You can't just get the definition from a dictionary and apply it out of context.

In the context that you used it, you implied that a senator has governing experience due to his being a part of the senate.

Now, if you want to state that he has governing experience due to some other things he has done, I would agree, it is a matter of semantics.
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JR, just read your post, excellent, and I am in total agreement.