Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin

[JollyGG]

Why not? All I have to do is look at who has been driving Congress for the last seven years when the Republicans controlled the presidency and both houses.

Umm. The Deomocrats have controlled congress for the past two years. I haven't seen much change.

[lrprn]

She actually has more time and experience then Obama.

Sorry - wrong. Obama was a Illinois state senator for 7 years before he became their national senator in Congress in 2004. That's a lot more governing experience than two years as the mayor of a small town of 9,000 with a balanced budget due to oil profits then less than two years as governor.

After Bush's first 6 years and Clintons first 2 years we need a divided, partisan government to maintain checks and balances.

I agree you about this 100%, BR. This is what our founding fathers envisioned. Nearly every time we've 'rushed off the edge of a cliff' as a country, it's been because of the lack of the checks and balances system inside our government.

[Scott50]

The only thing Obama has going for is that he is a charismatic speaker when he talks about "change". Like most democrats- he wants bigger govt and more govt programs that our country can't afford.

[lrprn]

Umm. The Deomocrats have controlled congress for the past two years. I haven't seen much change.

Yes, you're right, JGG - thanks for the correction.

I should have said the six years when Republicans controlled the presidency and both houses, then lost the Congress in the off-year elections in 2006 because of their incredibly partisan decisions over six years that hurt so many middle and lower class voters. Over the last two years, the Republican president kept vetoing everying the now bi-partisan Congress passed that he didn't like so we remain at the status quo

[Mi Bankruptcy]

The only thing Obama has going for is that he is a charismatic speaker when he talks about "change". Like most democrats- he wants bigger govt and more govt programs that our country can't afford.

How do they want bigger government? The only significant thing I can see is we don't have a national healthcare? However, our public tax dollars pays for police, hospitals, fire departments, transportation and much more. Why not an all inclusive healthcare to make us a true socialist state?

[JollyGG]

Yes, you're right, JGG - thanks for the correction.

I should have said the six years when Republicans controlled the presidency and both houses, then lost the Congress in the off-year elections in 2006 because of their incredibly partisan decisions over six years that hurt so many middle and lower class voters. Over the last two years, the Republican president kept vetoing everying the now bi-partisan Congress passed that he didn't like so we remain at the status quo

And that democrat congress has the lowest approval rating congress has ever had.
I find it an oversimplification and generally small minded to blame all the troubles of the world on one party or the other. Even when one party or another runs congress it is usually by a very small percentage. Both parties and partisan politics are how things got screwed up. It accomplishes nothing to blame the other party for anything. The dems stood right next to the republicans and did whatever it took to get reelected and advance their own party agenda regardless of what the people of their home state stood to gain or loose from it. Neither party seems able to recognize a good idea unless it come from someone with the same initial after their name (D or R) as their party affiliation. I'm sorry, but if something is a good idea, well then it is a good idea and if it sucks as idea, it sucks. Everyone wines that the reason the Dems haven't made any more meaningfull change than the republicans have due to president Bush's veto power. I'm sorry that is bull. If a bill isn't good enough for 2/3 of people to see it as a good idea mabey you need to take a second look at the bill and trim some of the special interests stuff(deleted inapropriate word) out of it. If 2/3 of people can't get behind something mabey it shouldn't be law.
Blaming the Rebulicans or blaming the democrats is bull (deleted inappropriate word) and a cop out. And honestly one I didn't expect to come from someone as intelligent as you.

[PoorGrammyinBK7]

I think the media has too much influence in this country. I think back to 9-11-2001 and how many people thought our economy would be devastated by what happened. And it was for a while, but it came back remarkably fast. The President had a very high approval rating after that happened and Congress, for a small moment in time, seemed to be on the same team. I remember thinking that the media was not going to like that and I was right. Little by little the attacks began to appear and I watched as our country's credibility was destroyed. I personally believe OUR OWN MEDIA, their 90% liberal bias and lack of journalistic integrity have effected what the WORLD thinks of us, our President and our politics, etc, MORE than what any government leader has done.

[PoorGrammyinBK7]

I meant to say also, we can't blame one person (the President) for everything we are going through. We can't even really just blame Congress - although they certainly have more to do with it all than just the Pres. Just like we can't simply blame the credit card companies for our bankruptcies -- we all have to take some responsibility for our state of affairs.

[lrprn]

Both parties and partisan politics are how things got screwed up. It accomplishes nothing to blame the other party for anything.

So where does accountability start if neither party can be held responsible for decisions made?

The dems stood right next to the republicans and did whatever it took to get reelected and advance their own party agenda regardless of what the people of their home state stood to gain or loose from it.

All too often, yes, I agree.

If a bill isn't good enough for 2/3 of people to see it as a good idea mabey you need to take a second look at the bill and trim some of the special interests crap out of it. If 2/3 of people can't get behind something mabey it shouldn't be law.

I believe that you are making this too simple.

Bush's veto of the bill authorizing spending on water projects was overturned in 2007 because in an election year it was safe politically for both parties to get behind a good idea. Bush's SCHIF veto should have been overturned too, but the Republicans saw it as too opposite their rigid message of never raising taxes so now thousands of children are left without healthcare coverage they had for years without any extra taxes needed. If that isn't partisan voting down the party line, I don't know what is. I'm sure there are good examples of Democrats doing the exact same thing during the Clinton years. All I have to say is shame on both parties when they put their re-election ahead of good ideas that are supported by the majority of Americans.

Blaming the Rebulicans or blaming the democrats is bullshit (excuse the language) and a cop out. And honestly one I didn't expect to come from someone as intelligent as you.

Just because I don't personally agree with your views on this topic doesn't make me a cop out, JGG. Just makes me someone who disagrees with you, that's all

Last I heard, we're still in a country (and members of a forum) where we can publicly differ with each other. Personally I think that's what truly makes our country unique and the guiding force to our power internationally - that ability to openly disagree as citizens and still find a way to make mostly sound decisions through the chaos. But sometimes we make big mistakes - passing the 2005 bankruptcy bill for one - and I believe in holding the people who drove that decision and others through Congress by lies and coercion responsible.

[JollyGG]

I will only add one last thing about people tendency to blame one party or the other.

I am a republican. I am still very much undecided about who I will vote for as president. I have been leaning towards Obama. But whenever I try to learn more about him or try and figure out what he believe I have to wade through all the people blaming me and all members of my party for all the evils of the world. As a republican it makes it awfully hard to look through it to the man. His supporters are not doing him any favors by bashing everyone who is not a democrat and who does not believe exactly how he does.

Like it or not, a candidates strongest supporters say a lot about him and his character. If you really like the guy enough to want to vote for him and want to see him a president you would be better served talking about issues. I respect opinions and give some credit if you pointed out that McCain hasn't said much about how he's going to fix healthcare or if you pointed out that Obama has specific ideas on workers rights (ie. guarantee’s time off and better maternity leave). Same as I give McCain supporters credit when than talk about the fact that McCain has the credentials and experience to actually get us out of Iraq. Or that they didn't like that Obama voting record doesn't support a lot of the things he now claims to support.

I can't have much respect for any person who has blind faith in one political party or another. I am a member of one political party because overall I believe in the BASIC beliefs of that party. But you know what, I acknowledge that each party has serious issues. And that pretty much all politics are about getting elected. To such a degree that the beliefs of the party get twisted and corrupted. But when people claim that one party or another is going to single handedly save this country or that one party or another is responsible for the mess we are in let me remind you that the republicans had the majority and the president and they didn't change much. So our people gave congress to the democrats. They haven't done any better of a job and have the lowest approval rating of a congress ever. So, my party isn't going to solve all the problems of the world and neither is yours. The only way problems will ever get solved is if we stop bashing each other, name calling, and acting life 5 year old children. Only when we can all meet at the same table and have an intelligent, adult discussion will the problems of our country get solved.

I believe there is good and bad in each party's platform and good and bad in each candidate.

I believe in holding each and every PERSON responsible for the choices they make as my elected official. Their personal integrity is my concern not their party affiliation.

[epiphany]

I am undecided. I am leaning towards Obama right now and have never voted democrat in my life. I listened to Obama and I will listen to McCain before making a decision. My decision may happen in the voting booth.

I don't believe, however, that Palin's run for the veep will change her lifestyle much as far as her personal life goes. She's already a Governor and fully entrenched in her career. I'm sure she will just continue to do whatever it is she does now to make it work for her family. I heard her husband is home with the kids much of the time now.

I also find it curious that Biden was implemental in passing the 2005 bankruptcy laws and that at that time, his son made a substantial sum as a consultant for MBNA, one of the biggest lobbiests for the new laws.

ep

[epiphany]

Ultimately, people do not vote based on the VP. They pick the President. Plus in this case, the experience argument is quite thin. Let's face it, Obama has only spent 4 years in the Senate, half which he spent running for President. I would rather have someone with executive experience as president than someone only with legislative experience. I agree with JR, McCain's pick was far better than Obama's.

This pick accomplished what it was supposed to, it extinguished the post convention fire of Obama. Instead of talking about his speech etc, we are talking about McCain's VP pick. Very Shrewed.

Shrewd indeed.

Normally I would agree with you that people do not vote based on the VP. However, given McCain's age and past health problems, I believe a lot of people will be taking this into account.

ep

[yoyoma51]

Change. Can't hurt.

Obama/Biden.

[banca rotta]

I think the media has too much influence in this country. I think back to 9-11-2001 and how many people thought our economy would be devastated by what happened. And it was for a while, but it came back remarkably fast. The President had a very high approval rating after that happened and Congress, for a small moment in time, seemed to be on the same team. I remember thinking that the media was not going to like that and I was right. Little by little the attacks began to appear and I watched as our country's credibility was destroyed. I personally believe OUR OWN MEDIA, their 90% liberal bias and lack of journalistic integrity have effected what the WORLD thinks of us, our President and our politics, etc, MORE than what any government leader has done.

I used to agree with this but I no longer do. The American people are really not stupid. We are the best at everything!

We are not drinking the koolaid and buying what they tell us anymore. More and more Americans feel Congress is to blame for some of the problems we are facing. This seems like a new concept since most people always used to blame the president.

We are all smarter then the stupid media thinks and it's showing up in their financial statements since so many news papers and network tv stations are hurting in the ratings. I couldn't be more pleased.

I am very happy when these bums are unemployed and broke and I hope the pain keeps coming their way. I also hope life gets better for the rest of us that love our country unlike them.

[banca rotta]

So where does accountability start if neither party can be held responsible for decisions made? .

Simple, the individual