Push to lower age limit...

[JRScott]

You gotta get a TV...only kidding....1-2 drinks a day will increase your longevity.

Sad to say but many parents don't seem to be able to raise responsible kids. Anything that enhances the ability for an 18-20 year old to get behind the wheel of a car under the influence I'm against.

However, anyone with a military ID should be allowed to buy alcohol.

I don't have a TV either.......

For every medical study that says that alcohol is good for you, there is another that says it isn't.

Keep in mind prohibition was repealed not because the government or people of the time thought that alcohol consumption had suddenly become good, they repealed it so that they could tax it.....(Constitutionally the FDA is unconstitutional it was a power not enumerated to the Congress in the constitution and thus should be a state right......)

[WhatMoney]

For every medical study that says that alcohol is good for you, there is another that says it isn't.

Show me the studies that say wine (and beer) in moderation is not good for you. Except for pregnant women and certain alcohol/ prescription drug interactions, a little wine each day is one of the healthiest habits you could have.

Just Google these words: wine moderation alcohol and you'll get about 600,000 hits telling you why moderate drinking, especially of wine is good for your body and your mind. And the medical studies in favor of moderate use of wine and beer keep on coming - I see another at least weekly.

The anti-alcohol teetotalers first make the mistake of calling everything "alcohol", with no distinction between distilled spirits, beer, and wine. Then they talk about alcohol abuse, NOT moderate use of low alcohol beer or wine taken with food. Obviously anything taken to excess is bad for you - even religion. Those poor Mormans, never allowed to enjoy a cool beer in the evening after work, or a fine red table wine with their dinner. Do they have any idea what they are missing?

As far as the 18 yr drinking age - I'm in favor of it for beer only, and wine should be encouraged at home with your parents as well. In Wisconsin the drinking age was 18 for beer ever since the Prohibition, and before. Only Reagan threatening to cut off federal highway funding to the state caused Wisconsin to move to 21 for all drinking in the 1980's. A sad day at the University of Wisconsin Union and cafeteria's, where beer had been served to all students 18 and over, and beer bars were only a few blocks away. There was no driving - the worst thing that could happen was you'd stumble home. It was always a big thing when you turned 18, but any novelty wore off quickly. So I'd take a study break and have a burger and a tap at the local pub. Then back to studying until midnight. No big deal - never should be.

The US has one of most restrictive drinking age laws in the world. Delay teaching of responsible drinking and you encourage irresponsible "illegal" binge drinking between 18-21 that can continue on as an adult.

http://www.medindia.net/Patients/Pat...moderation.htm

[Pinkie86]

I turned 21 last year (turning 22 next month) and I frankly would be irritated if they lowered the age limit for any old Joe Schmoe College Student. There are too many stupid drunk kids running around (believe me, I go to college with them). It may make it less glamourous because it'd be more easily attainable, but on that same token I think there'd be more drunk driving issues.

I do believe that our Brave Men and Women serving in the military should be able to drink at 18. They're putting their lives on the line, protecting our freedoms and our country and I think we owe them that much.

[Flamingo]

I turned 21 last year (turning 22 next month) and I frankly would be irritated if they lowered the age limit for any old Joe Schmoe College Student. There are too many stupid drunk kids running around (believe me, I go to college with them). It may make it less glamourous because it'd be more easily attainable, but on that same token I think there'd be more drunk driving issues.

I do believe that our Brave Men and Women serving in the military should be able to drink at 18. They're putting their lives on the line, protecting our freedoms and our country and I think we owe them that much.

You said it Pinkie86....my youngest daughter just turned 21 and what she stated to me yesterday about it mirrors your comments. She said what parents don't see would make their heads spin! If it becomes legal, they will all now get drunk in your house, on the street and everywhere just because they now can. While some kids in that age range are very mature, many are not. As I stated in a prevoius post...there go the skyrocketing auto and medical insurance rates, and probably a rise in life insurance rates for that age group...just watch if this should pass....will empty your pockets more unless you take out more stock in the alcohol industries or coffin manufacturing businesses.

Does this also mean they will lower the gambling age now to 18? You have to be 21 to enter the casinos in this area....

[JRScott]

WhatMoney you could find them on your own if you did a google search for them, I have no intentions of doing it for you because in the past you've ignored such evidence in other cases. No point in wasting my time just so you can ignore it again.

The frontal lobes of humans which control decision making do not become fully mature until the early to mid 20s, which means an 18 year olds decision making is not as good as a 21 year olds.

[WhatMoney]

WhatMoney you could find them on your own if you did a google search for them, I have no intentions of doing it for you because in the past you've ignored such evidence in other cases. No point in wasting my time just so you can ignore it again.

In other words, you can't find an equal number of studies that say the moderate use of alcohol, especially red wine, is bad for you. I bet you can't find 5% of studies claiming moderate drinking is bad, and they were probably sponsored by the Baptist or Morman church, or MADD. I actually did look for some some of these studies and could not find any that were slightly current, and all spoke of alcoholism and abuse, not moderate usage. Some doctors were taught all alcohol is bad for you 50 years ago, and old ideas die hard, especially when they are too lazy to keep up on the latest research into the issue. Blood-letting, smoking, and x-rays were once thought to be harmless or beneficial, before medical science proved otherwise. You need to keep up with the latest medical research. Moderate drinkers live longer than teetotalers or heavy drinkers - that's a fact, (unless they are also life long smokers - in which case the cigarettes usually kill them early.)

The frontal lobes of humans which control decision making do not become fully mature until the early to mid 20s, which means an 18 year olds decision making is not as good as a 21 year olds.

Well if that is true, than military service should have a lower age limit of 21, or maybe 25 (mid 20's). Who wants a soldier flying an assault jet aircraft or toting an automatic weapon and making life and death decisions, whose brain is not fully mature? You can't have it both ways JRScott. If 18 is old enough to kill enemy human beings in war, it should be old enough to have a beer or glass of wine.

BTW, I don't expect any woman to understand or agree with lowering the drinking age for brewed drinks (NOT distilled spirits). Woman, I've noticed, have more problems holding their liquor, and should not be allowed to drink until at least age 30. This would also reduce the pregnancy rate.

I grew up in a state where 18 yr old beer drinking was legal. There was never any strong reasons or clamor to raise the limit, except for money, religion and politics of the conservative 1980's. The auto accident rate did not change when the drinking age was raised. In fact there were more serious alcohol related accidents with the higher limit for 18-21 men, because without the beer, the 18-21 were turning to hard liquor, which is quicker. And more dangerous if you are on the road. People are naive to think you can prevent legal adults from using alcohol just because there is a law. Better to give them a safe local outlet with beer, by lowering the age to 18, then turning them into law breaking whiskey drinkers driving home from a binge party in the country.

[JRScott]

WhatMoney I learned long ago the futility of having any discussion with you. You have never accepted any evidence that was contrary to your point of view on any discussion I've seen you post in.

Most studies show that 1 drink a day is to many. Most recommend not drinking more than 4 days a week. They also show that a drink in this case is a 12 oz beer, a 5 oz glass of wine, or a 1.5 oz shot of hard liquor. The 1 drink per day is also for women and those over 65 since the water content of their bodies is lower than younger men. They recommend no more than 2 drinks per day for men under the age of 65.

While many do cite that if you drink that little it can help with cardiovascular problems, they also show that if you drink more than that you improve your chances for heart problems and for stroke.

A blood alcohol content as low as .05 can impede your ability to react fast enough to a situation and can lead to life threatening injuries to yourself and others.

Colleges could care less about whether the 18 year old has to go fight. They are looking at their bottom lines. The spend a great deal of money on campus security and one thing that could help them cut their bottom line is to have the alcohol age reduced. This would prevent them from having to investigate underage drinking and spend the money on other crimes. It would also eliminate the need for false IDs which are rampant on every college campus in America, you just need to know who to talk to.

The regulation of drugs and food were not powers enumerated in the Constitution to Congress and thus should be powers of the States not the power of the Federal government. I don't support marijuana use, but I do support the fact that constitutionally states such as California and Oregon have the legal right to decide those matters themselves. The same applies to alcohol laws. They should be decided by the states. In many cases you probably would see the age drop to 18 in that case, in fact I don't believe any would outlaw it or increase the age.

[WhatMoney]

WhatMoney I learned long ago the futility of having any discussion with you. You have never accepted any evidence that was contrary to your point of view on any discussion I've seen you post in

Because you have never presented any evidence, other than your opinion, on any issue we have discussed. I have continually asked you for your references and you supplied just one, not even a URL. When I checked the source it agreed with my position, not yours. So I understand your frustration in not being able to defend your beliefs. And I have always provided source material and reading for my posts. You have always chosen to ignore them. So just who is calling the kettle black? My signature is actually just for you JRScott. Have you watched the PBS show yet? Have you checked out the website, which also provides extensive background information on the show about health care in the USA? Oh I remember, you don't have a TV, and cannot watch online video because of your slow dialup connection. Hey, I'll be happy to mail you a DVD of the show. Do you have a DVD player on your computer? You are sitting in isolation in western NC on the Tennessee border in a county of 24,000, and claim you have access and understanding of the country. I have to wonder.

Most studies show that 1 drink a day is too many. Most recommend not drinking more than 4 days a week. They also show that a drink in this case is a 12 oz beer, a 5 oz glass of wine, or a 1.5 oz shot of hard liquor. The 1 drink per day is also for women and those over 65 since the water content of their bodies is lower than younger men. They recommend no more than 2 drinks per day for men under the age of 65.

Most studies show that 1 drink a day is too many.

This inaccurate statement needs verification. It is false JR. Maybe your church elders said this, but the scientific community disagrees with you completely.

At least you have it right for men under 65, 2 drinks a day, which is 10 oz of wine or two cans of beer. This is what I call moderate drinking, and is considered the optimum by the medical community. So you agree with me? Women can handle less of course. Now if only we could convince them to stop trying to drink the men under the table.

While many do cite that if you drink that little it can help with cardiovascular problems, they also show that if you drink more than that you improve your chances for heart problems and for stroke.

Again the key word is moderation. You need to drink a lot more than the conservative recommendations to actually increase heart and cardivascular problems. And the doctors are concerned about alcoholism, since they see the results, so they are always conservative.

A blood alcohol content as low as .05 can impede your ability to react fast enough to a situation and can lead to life threatening injuries to yourself and others.

Oh, so what? So I may not win a foosball tournament as my reflexes slow down after two beers. I do not suggest anyone drink and drive. There is always the chance your reaction time will be reduced by a few seconds - almost as bad as the cell phone users busy putting on their makeup while cruising down the freeway.

Colleges could care less about whether the 18 year old has to go fight. They are looking at their bottom lines. The spend a great deal of money on campus security and one thing that could help them cut their bottom line is to have the alcohol age reduced. This would prevent them from having to investigate underage drinking and spend the money on other crimes. It would also eliminate the need for false IDs which are rampant on every college campus in America, you just need to know who to talk to.

Funny it was never an issue when the beer drinking age was 18 in my state. I did consider a fake ID when I was 17, but I only had to wait 2 weeks after the start of my Freshmen year and I was legal. I survived. But today as you point out, the laws are making everyone under 21 a criminal. You think this is good?

The regulation of drugs and food were not powers enumerated in the Constitution to Congress and thus should be powers of the States not the power of the Federal government. I don't support marijuana use, but I do support the fact that constitutionally states such as California and Oregon have the legal right to decide those matters themselves. The same applies to alcohol laws. They should be decided by the states. In many cases you probably would see the age drop to 18 in that case, in fact I don't believe any would outlaw it or increase the age.

I agree with you. In fact before Reagan and his right-wing gang took over, the states did have the right to set their laws on alcohol drinking age, among other states-rights issues. But ever since it's been the Fed's trying to tell the states what to do - and when the Fed's are Bush's religious conservatives, this is not a good thing.

[Flamingo]

BTW, I don't expect any woman to understand or agree with lowering the drinking age for brewed drinks (NOT distilled spirits). Woman, I've noticed, have more problems holding their liquor, and should not be allowed to drink until at least age 30. This would also reduce the pregnancy rate.

LOL! What rock did you crawl out from under? Reducing the testosterone level of males age 18-20 could also lower the pregnancy rate along with giving vasestomies to alcoholic young adult males who have one drink and can't keep the zipper up, and maybe reduce the number of rapes performed by men in that age group. Alcohol has the same effect on everyone depending on your size, weight and the amount inbibed in relation to that ratio. If you give one drink to a man/woman who is not used to drinking, that person could be on the floor before some who has already had several drinks and drinks everyday. Some medical education as to alcohol and the effect on the human body, whether male or female, can help you "understand" a bit more as to your comment which was totally inappropriate for this thread. I've seen grown men who would reduced to an infant in diapers after a few drinks (and actually probably needing diapers) and women after a few drinks standing there laughing at them. LOL!

[ssdsco]

Common guys....can I drink tonight or not ? Should I include the 2 drinks from last night that I didn't drink due to this discussion ? Could be a fun night.

BTW. I'm a man over 30 that can hold my liquor.

[WhatMoney]

can I drink tonight or not ? Should I include the 2 drinks from last night that I didn't drink due to this discussion ?

Yes of course you can average your consumption. Don't drink for a week and you are allowed 14 drinks in one evening.


"It only takes one drink to get me drunk, but I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth." - George Burns (1896-1996)

"I always keep a bottle of stimulant handy in case I see a snake - which I also keep handy." - W.C. Fields (1880-1946)

"When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading." - Hinny Youngman (1906-1998) British-born American comedian

"The first draught serveth for health, the second for pleasure, the third for shame, the fourth for madness." - Sir Walter Raleigh (1552 - 1618)

"Let us have wine and women, mirth and laughter. Sermons and soda water the day after." - Lord Byron (1788-1824)

"May what goes down not come back up again." - Traditional toast

[robivi3]

Didn't read all the posts but WOW! Forgot about this, I planned on treating my son to his first Sam Adams when he got out off Boot Camp. Oh well, guess I see it both ways. Stiffen penalties maybe, but lowering the age is also a big deal. Please, not interested in European arguments, don't wanna' live like a European.

[JRScott]

Common guys....can I drink tonight or not ? Should I include the 2 drinks from last night that I didn't drink due to this discussion ? Could be a fun night.

BTW. I'm a man over 30 that can hold my liquor.

Actually no that's not good for you. Binge drinking, where you say go the whole week and drink it all on Saturday can lead to health problems and of course greater impairment on Saturday and Sunday.

It's just like say you skipped a pill the doctor gave you one day, and took two the next day. Really doesn't help you, in fact depending on the medication you could be overdosing yourself the one day to make up for the other which can lead to complications.

[Cali]

Pinkie - age doesn't make one more responsible when they are drinking. You stated you didn't want the age lowered yet you want military members to be allowed to drink. How would you determined between the two when they are out drinking? By military ID?

JR - I drink a glass of wine a few times a week. I don't drink beer, never liked it. I have some champagne at special events. I don't do mixed drinks anymore, and when I did it was very few.

[Minnymouth]

Remember its not WHAT YOU DRINK.... its the abuse of it!!! And most of the younger generation have little self control when it comes to liquor or beer. They don't know HOW it will affect them or their LIMITS.
Put liquor, drugs, prescribed meds behind the wheel of a speeding car and we have a 'PROBLEM HOUSTON'..........
Age really doesn't have a whole lot to do with it....