Evolution or Creation?

[Scott50]

Just read a post about someone referring to godless scientists and the big bang theory.. Just curious what every ones thoughts are about this topic..

[Scott50]

The main problem I have with creationism is the story told in Genesis- is it literal or a story? Did God only create Adam and Eve?If so- who did Adam and Eve's offspring marry (procreate with?)

[WhatMoney]

Did God only create Adam and Eve?If so- who did Adam and Eve's offspring marry (procreate with?)

If you believe this story, then the world human population must have started to grow by family incest (you figure out the possibilities).

[HHM]

The problem is the false dichotomy of the question. It really is not an either or choice and the people and thinkers that characterize it as such are being intellectually lazy and take an over-simplistic view of the stories and of evolution.

Also too, there is a distinct difference between the story of Adam and Eve and the Story of Creation. Most people never really explore the Jewish traditions surrounding the story or ever really read it.

I can right a whole essay on this, and it is not that I am in favor of creation or evolution, I am a compatibilist, evolution explains how, creation explains why.

[robivi3]

Actually there was no curse and no prohibition at that time... if you believe in creation. I have a problem with evolution because it requires far more faith. Godless scientists? Not possible, everyone has a God, big or little g, and everyone has a religious framework from which they begin with their beliefs.

The moral argument over brother/sister mating would not have been relevant at that time. There are several Biblical curses placed on the ground and on man "the species" since. It would take alot to get into a big language argument, my oldest son has been in Yeshiva studying for three years and speaks Hebrew, Aramaic, Latin, Spnaish, Yiddish and English. He has "gotten" into the deeper arguments and can express himself better than I.

But the "Carlos Mencia" (that's where I heard this incest thing last) would have been irrelevant. To me the argument comes down to a simple we want to make our own God deal. we want to determine the rules to absolve ourself of any moral obligations that we don't deem necessary. The whole brother/sister thing is simply a great way to opt out from the beginning, It is irrelevant to the main argument. We have a free will, we can kill and and hate our neighbor in the name of God, Kmart, Billybob or anything else. And we can reason away in our own minds all of the acts in the name of God and in the Old Testment and such to justify the way we wish to think. The real argument is if their is a God and the Bible is true each of us has to determine how we will respond. Some people respond in ignorance, some do not. So the argument is not between all of us, it's between us and God.

[JollyGG]

I think I responded to the orignal post you are speaking of. I belive WhatMoney and I were debating the issue in a thread that had gotten massively off track.

I was pointing out, much like robivi3 was saying, that no matter what you belive you are taking a certain amount of the story on blind faith.

I am a scientist. I have a degree in biology. I firmly belive in natural selection. I belive that humans have changed in response to our environment over time. You can actually see the changes species with short life spans undergo and the fossil record can clearly document the changes humans have undergone. I'm not sure that I belive that humans evolved from elements in a promordial sludge. And if we did I find it way to coincidental for it to happened without a little guidance.

So, I guess I belive in the theory of "intelligent design".

Like HMM I belive that the how and the why are seperate questions.

But if you read the other thread, I'm sure you've already heard my opinions and belifes.

[Bandit]

As an agnostic, I am neither for or against adam or evO and I don't really care either way.

[Bandit]

The main problem I have with creationism is the story told in Genesis- is it literal or a story? Did God only create Adam and Eve?If so- who did Adam and Eve's offspring marry (procreate with?)

So how did the god get the rib out of adam & make another human. Did god put anesthesia into adam & then take out his surgical tools & remove it?, then sew him back up with a thread and needle? The POOF the rib turns into a woman

You should put some of those old writings up for discussion.

[Bandit]

I can right a whole essay on this, and it is not that I am in favor of creation or evolution, I am a compatibilist, evolution explains how, creation explains why.

I would read it.

[Reddrocket07]

Well I tend to lean more toward evolution, however I do believe there is some kind of creating force behind everything, be it a god or what you want to call it. I honestly believe that evolution and creationism can be tied together.

IMO people follow the bible too literally, especially when you think that it has been re-written and re-written through humanity's short history. People make mistakes, just play the telephone game! If we stand in a line full of people and I whisper a story to you, then you whisper it to the next person, so on and so forth, the story will change. It all has to do with perception. If you dont know what that game is, ask your children if you have them!

I dont wish to offend anyone, I am not trampling on your beliefs. I am just saying I dont agree with some of it and those are my reasons why. Just because I dont believe in it, doesnt mean I dont respect your right to practice and hold your beliefs.

[HHM]

Well I tend to lean more toward evolution, however I do believe there is some kind of creating force behind everything, be it a god or what you want to call it. I honestly believe that evolution and creationism can be tied together.

IMO people follow the bible too literally, especially when you think that it has been re-written and re-written through humanity's short history. People make mistakes, just play the telephone game! If we stand in a line full of people and I whisper a story to you, then you whisper it to the next person, so on and so forth, the story will change. It all has to do with perception. If you dont know what that game is, ask your children if you have them!

I dont wish to offend anyone, I am not trampling on your beliefs. I am just saying I dont agree with some of it and those are my reasons why. Just because I dont believe in it, doesnt mean I dont respect your right to practice and hold your beliefs.

For me, the people that attribute literalism to the bible are the evolutionists, it makes them feel better to mock that which they don't understand.

[Reddrocket07]

For me, the people that attribute literalism to the bible are the evolutionists, it makes them feel better to mock that which they don't understand.

I grew up in a Protestant family, so I feel I do understand. I just dont believe in it and that is my opinon. We can just agree to disagree I guess and let it be done with that. You have your beliefs and I respect them, I just dont believe in them. Im glad you have that in your life!

[oopsnow]

Bible

If you believe that God can do anything, which I do, then for Him to keep his written word true, no matter how many people write it down, is easy. And it is the movement of the Holy Spirit speaking to your heart that helps you be assured you are reading the Word of God. Don't mean to preach but this is just my interpretation.

[Flamingo]

Just read a post about someone referring to godless scientists and the big bang theory.. Just curious what every ones thoughts are about this topic..

Raised Roman Catholic and attending Catholic school for 12 years, as a youngest in grade school upon learning about the sacraments before receiving them, I questioned a few of my nun teachers about Noah and the flood (if all were destroyed except Noah and his family, we are all descendants of Noah so all of us now on this planet are all related) and how did all previous records survive that long flood? I also had numerous questions about Adam and Eve, people living to be 900+ years old, etc., etc. Also, Adam and Eve produced Cain and Abel (both sons). Where did their spouses come from. Some things, even at that age, did not make sense to me. The nuns told me "do not question these things; your faith is the answer." In plain words, when one looks back into history, whether religious or world history, one can see that most of it is all stories which have been passed down from generation to generation with some writing it all down to survive the ages as hidden books or stone tablets. How many other books or tablets were written also and never survived?

Topics like this could be discussed forever so the main thing is only what one believes or has faith in as to oneself and to live their own life with their faith or beliefs.

[HHM]

If you believe that God can do anything, which I do, then for Him to keep his written word true, no matter how many people write it down, is easy. And it is the movement of the Holy Spirit speaking to your heart that helps you be assured you are reading the Word of God. Don't mean to preach but this is just my interpretation.

But again, that is an oversimplification. The "Word of God" idea is part of religious "tradition", it is not in the bible. Granted, there are passages that contain the word of god, but the bible is not self-referencing. The old testament is a collection of stories (most of which are historical) for more than 2000 years of Jewish tradition, the new testament is the life and times of Jesus and his Apostles.

These arguments about, god is all powerful, the bible is the word of god are oversimplifications and used for fun in introductory logic classes (I know, I teach them), but these ideas do not grasp the nuanced truth.

The main problem in this debate is the insertion of religious tradition (which is man-made) as if that tradition was infallible.