We help Iraq get their health system in place but forget ours

[BigJohn]

I thought this bit of information might be worth reading. The Republicans say we can't have national health care but we can help Iraq get their national health care.

"Doctors' salaries have increased to between $120 a month and $180 a month, in comparison to $20 a month before the war. There are roughly 22,000 physicians affiliated with the Ministry of Health, and about 35,000 nurses and nursing assistants.

The Ministry has 100,000 healthcare professionals and staff. More than 80 percent are women.

Iraq's 2004 budget for health care is $950 million. Saddam Hussein's regime provided only $16 million for the Ministry of Health in 2002, a 90 percent reduction from a decade earlier.

Health care for some ethnic groups was almost nonexistent under Saddam's regime. The Ministry of Health is working to ensure that health care is available to all Iraqis regardless of ethnicity, geographic origin, gender, or religious affiliation.

More than 30 million doses of children's vaccinations have been procured and distributed, and the Ministry has received grants to immunize the country's 4.2 million children under the age of five against preventable diseases such as polio, tetanus, diphtheria, measles, and tuberculosis.

Routine vaccinations are now available to newborns, children, and mothers every day at Ministry of Health facilities across the country and are promoted nationally through immunization days on the 22nd of each month.

Since May 24, the Ministry of Health has delivered more than 25,000 tons of pharmaceuticals and supplies to healthcare facilities across Iraq.

The Ministry is responsible for 29,000 hospital beds.

Since the liberation of Iraq, the country has not faced a major public health crisis.

Three Facility Protective Services classes have trained over 1,300 personnel to protect health facilities.

The Ministry of Health has completed a $1.7 million headquarters refurbishment project.

In addition to the United States, Japan, Egypt, Korea, Turkey, Spain, Italy, Saudi Arabia, and India are providing assistance to the Ministry of Health. This assistance includes training for doctors and nurses, construction of hospitals, and donation of ambulances. "

The source, the Whitehouse website [http://http://www.whitehouse.gov/new.../20031215.html

[JRScott]

In truth we can't afford a national health care system, not McCain's or Obama's plans. However we do need to trickle down the Iraq aid and allow them to start paying their own way with their oil money.

[PaKettle]

I am about to join the ranks of the unemployed AND the uninsured, and you don't realize how scary that is until it happens to you.

I resent that I live in "the greatest country in the world" (one of the richest, still) yet there is no health coverage for people like me who've worked their whole life and now are unemployed due to no fault of their own.

I told this story before, but my brother in law died last year because the local hospital would not accept him so he had to be driven an hour away and by the time he got there he was too far gone.

Something has to be done about health insurance and my feeling is that we are Americans, "where there's a WILL, there's a WAY!"

The problem is we are wasting too many of our resources on war and on other countries instead of taking care of our own country and our own people.

[epiphany]

In truth we can't afford a national health care system, not McCain's or Obama's plans. However we do need to trickle down the Iraq aid and allow them to start paying their own way with their oil money.

Yeah, but could we perhaps afford a national health care plan if we weren't paying for someone elses health care plan and other things?

I could go on and on, but am not in the mood to write a lengthy post right now.

ep

[JRScott]

The Iraq war alone even if you ended it today would not provide the funds to sustain a long term Health Care System. All the Iraq war spending has been deficit spending and I believe that to be wrong.

Even if we eliminated all aid to other countries we still couldn't fund it, our foreign aid budget is relatively small.

There is a way though, but folks have to realize we have to change the way we do business. There would need to be considerable changes in how our government operates and what we expect though from them.

Some steps:

1. Pay off the National Debt (the interest will become crippling within 30 years).
2. Raise the age at which someone can get Social Security benefits. Peg this age to the life expectancy at birth. (For example people born in 2008 would not collect until they are 78.)
3. Eliminate the Federal Department of Education. By the constitution this is a state right anyway and it has been underfunded for years. It would be better to privatize or allow the states to run their own education programs without federal interference.
4. Eliminate the Federal Reserve Bank. According to the constitution the printing of money is the job of Congress, not some semi autonomous entity.
5. Eliminate the Internal Revenue Service. Repeal the 16th Amendment to the Constitution. In place of the income tax impose a national sales tax.
6. Withdraw from NAFTA, CAFTA, FTAA, MEFTA, TAFTA, & FTAAP. (Not all of these have been ratified yet but all pretty much lean in the same direction and are counterproductive to US interest as we give up to much while not receiving enough).
7. Impose heavy import tariffs equivalent to those of other nations who unfairly are allowed to heavily tariff our nation's products while we cannot theirs due to unfair trade treaties.
8. Become Energy Independent. This is critical because without it we kept getting drawn into affairs that we should not be involved in. Most of the problems of the last 30 years have been directly related to our lack of energy independence. This will require short term investment in oil production/refining. Long term it will require investment in newer technologies with the goal of replacing oil as a primary energy provider within 3 decades.
9. Upon becoming Energy Independent remove all US Forces from enemy territory. Close all US bases not in US territory.
10. Privatize NASA. With the advent of civilian space flight with Scaled Composites and Virgin Enterprises it is time to put this into the private sector where competition can keep costs low and enable us to achieve greater work than if we keep it as a government entity.


These are some of the steps you'd need to take in order to be able to fund a National Health Care System without adding to the National Debt or raising taxes to levels that would further erode our economic strength.

[JRScott]

Yeah, but could we perhaps afford a national health care plan if we weren't paying for someone elses health care plan and other things?

I could go on and on, but am not in the mood to write a lengthy post right now.

ep

Not with just the elimination of that. I put up above a comprehensive list of what we probably need to do to afford it. It is not something that could be done in a year or two, probably would take a decade or so to phase things in and out.

The United States has the 3rd highest population in the World. Iraq has the 39th largest population in the world. (Less than 1/10th of our own). I do agree we need to stop spending money on their country and allow them to use their oil revenue to pay for their own care. However it alone would not be enough to supply Health Care to all our people.

[epiphany]

Hmmm, I am definitely going to need some more time to take in all you said but I really oppose (not sure if you are condoning it or just proposing it) changing the social security bar....not that I believe that it is even still going to be around when I am anywhere near the age of entitlement.

I think that people that have worked all their lives, and have paid into that system should get it back as promised and on time. I understand that may not happen and I think it really sucks.

[JRScott]

Hmmm, I am definitely going to need some more time to take in all you said but I really oppose (not sure if you are condoning it or just proposing it) changing the social security bar....not that I believe that it is even still going to be around when I am anywhere near the age of entitlement.

I think that people that have worked all their lives, and have paid into that system should get it back as promised and on time. I understand that may not happen and I think it really sucks.

It's the only choice really, we all know we can't afford Social Security as it currently is. The only way to save it is either to raise the age at which you collect it or reduce benefits perhaps by as much as half.

I wanted to add that I wouldn't do it for everyone.

I'd establish an age say 40 years old. If you are 40 or older than you collect at the current age. Those under 40 years of age are reset to the life expectancy age determined by their birthdate.

I would also require the government to stop using social security funds to cover other spending after all we aren't going to get that money back. It would need to be placed in mutual funds (25% in each of the 4 different kinds of funds.) If they had started that 50 years ago then we wouldn't be facing the huge shortfall we are.

[epiphany]

It's the only choice really, we all know we can't afford Social Security as it currently is. The only way to save it is either to raise the age at which you collect it or reduce benefits perhaps by as much as half.

I don't think it's the only choice and I think that social security should be sacred. Social security is all some people are going to have when they retire and I don't think that anyone should have to wait until they are on the brink of death to collect it. They paid for it.

There are plenty of areas that fat can be trimmed from. PLENTY.

No, I know it won't happen. The age at which we will be able to collect social security will increase and more of our elderly will become destitute. Here's hoping that none of us find ourselves having to try and find a job when we're 65.

ep

[JRScott]

We have to consider that since its inception life expectancy in the United States has increased 40%, and is expected to increase another 20% by 2080. At its current pace the entitlement programs (which include medicaid and medicare in the government papers) will eat up 15% of the GDP by 2050, outstripping all other spending combined by more than double the amount with the exception of interest payments on the National Debt. Deficit spending in 2050 is expected to be 7.5% of the GDP.

Personally I think we should arrest every member of Congress that has misappropriated the funds of Social Security for their own purposes and every President that has served who did not veto such legislation. In essence they all committed grand theft and we allowed them to do it. Whether they voted yes to spend it on other funds or chose not to vote but present they are guilty. It is why I think Democrats and Republicans both are very much equal to blame for the mess our nation is in and why I think so desperately we need to get them out before they do any more harm.

[epiphany]

We have to consider that since its inception life expectancy in the United States has increased 40%, and is expected to increase another 20% by 2080. At its current pace the entitlement programs (which include medicaid and medicare in the government papers) will eat up 15% of the GDP by 2050, outstripping all other spending combined by more than double the amount with the exception of interest payments on the National Debt. Deficit spending in 2050 is expected to be 7.5% of the GDP.

Personally I think we should arrest every member of Congress that has misappropriated the funds of Social Security for their own purposes and every President that has served who did not veto such legislation. In essence they all committed grand theft and we allowed them to do it. Whether they voted yes to spend it on other funds or chose not to vote but present they are guilty. It is why I think Democrats and Republicans both are very much equal to blame for the mess our nation is in and why I think so desperately we need to get them out before they do any more harm.

I think we should tar and feather them. I look forward to seeing that episode on COPS.

You make some good points. Life expectancy has increased but so has our working population. However, many of our working population are not paying into the system and I am not even going to get into the reasons why right now. I know you know. We all know. But it is a touchy subject.

I have noticed on my social security statement that comes from time to time (you know, the one that tells you how much you will get if you continue working until you are age such and such, you will get this or that amount) it says in not these exact words that there is no guarantee that the funds will be there when one retires. It is more like um, well, if it's still around ...........

I wonder if one could sue if they have paid into SS all their life and then it is not around to help take care of them in their old age. Isn't it after all, a breach of contract?

yeah, i know, pipe dream.

ep

[JRScott]

I suspect we'll find out when the system happens. You know what's really funny is that the original Social Security Act was found unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. FDR Then conned Congress into granting him the right to appoint someone to a federal judgeship who was I think over 70 but refused to retire (might of been 60). He then appointed 6 Supreme Court Justices and 49 other Federal Judges who were more in line with his thinking and that's how we got the New Deal....

[AngelinaCatHub]

WHAT A THREAD. Man I have much to say on this, I don't have the time now, but in a short story, bring the "Fair Tax" in, Kill off all foreign aide and let us see who really are friends. Don't change SS until the last who were born of that date go there. It was a contract then and should be upheld now, yes make sure the SS goes into a Trust Fund and get used to collect interest and not the General Fund as we mortgage our future. Health care, yes, we have the best in the World, but let us not Socialize it or we are doomed. Make it portable and like Medicare, insist on those who work take it. Those who cannot work, unless an emergency, turn them away. Sorry. What is with Medicare anyway, isn't that socialized now?

AND SO MUCH MORE I COULD SAY, but alas, Ms. is calling. 'Hub

[BigJohn]

If you check with Social Security, at the end of the month, there is no money. Every dollar we have paid into the fund, no longer resides with Social Security. Some claim, Social Security never received any of the money. Remember, employers and self employeed people pay the money to the IRS, not to Socail Security.

In 1939 a law was passed that the money Social Security has at the end of the month, gets placed in the General Fund of the USA government. Social Security, at the end of the month, can not have any money!

If you check the White House website, Bush gave a talk in which he said the government has no intentions of paying the money back to Social Security.

I look at as if somebody has been stealing the money grandma has in her cookie jar and they get caught. To make everybody happy, Grandma is asked to taking out a loan (so as to replace the money in the cookie jar) and she is informed she has to make each and every payment each month.

[BigJohn]

As far as having better health insurance in the USA, I would say increase the poverty level in the USA so more people can qualify for medicaid. Another area that could be changed is eliminate private policies. Everybody would pay the same rate for group insurance, within their group. This would provide help provide some coverage for those who have lost their jobs and would eliminate the loophole of pre-existing conditions.