We help Iraq get their health system in place but forget ours

[AngelinaCatHub]

BIGJOHN, now you know better. That is Socialism. I do agree in lowering the poverty level in the fact that even those who CHOOSE to be homeless (not all now under emergency terms) but live under our bridges are better off than many third World Countries. Some who scam the system with "I'll work for food" cardboard signes, hand them a can of beans and watch that "social" finger get raised. I have done so, and yes I am one who helps others big time. One reason I am here now. Not bitter at all, in fact still helping others, at my expense (of course) I helped one of my 'projects' get to her probation office and Ms. Cat made up a bit of a food box for her. Things we could use but given to her in the fact we are better off. She is not in bk because she has less. WE are as we became less for it. 'Hub

[Stilltheone]

I am very against national healthcare for many reasons...that being the cost and demand.

National healthcare, in reality, is not free by any means. We, as a nation, WILL pay for it...whether it be more taxes taken out of our checks or in other ways. I think it's too costly. I look at what is taken out of our checks on top of OUR OWN rising healthcare insurance and it's ridiculous. I can't imagine more being taken out to cover those who don't have it.

Another thing that concerns me is the demand it would be on our system. I have a friend that lives in Canada and to get cancer treatment can take months for your first appt. My aunt just found out she had cancer and was in the hospital the next day for chemo.

I think, as a nation, we are VERY spoiled when it comes to healthcare. We have a problem, we go in and have it fixed. National healthcare would be such a demand on our resources, I don't think we could keep up.

It's very sad that not everyone has coverage in the United States....But, I also feel that there are many that DO have coverage and they WORK for it.

Just my 2 cents~

[BigJohn]

In the USA if you have insurance you might be having chemo the next day, but if you don't have insurance, you are out of luck.

My wife fell down on a sidewalk one day. We took her to the hospital. She had a dislocated shoulder and a fracture. She could not get any health care till the HMO gave their blessings. Being it was a Saturday, it took a long time to get the blessing. Once the doctor saw her, he said he couldn't do anything . Why? Her shoulder is dislocated and it takes two people to relocate it. He claimed he had nobody to help him so I told him if that is the only problem, I will help him. I know, the doctor was blowing smoke but what else could I do?


Sure insurance will cost, but when you consider how much we pay now in taxes, we can afford it. We should be getting something for the taxes we pay in.

Why provide Iraqi health care at our expense while some of us go without? We should have been taken care of first. Not right, not right at all.

I am tired of our tax money going to providing services to others instead.

[JRScott]

WHAT A THREAD. Man I have much to say on this, I don't have the time now, but in a short story, bring the "Fair Tax" in, Kill off all foreign aide and let us see who really are friends. Don't change SS until the last who were born of that date go there. It was a contract then and should be upheld now, yes make sure the SS goes into a Trust Fund and get used to collect interest and not the General Fund as we mortgage our future. Health care, yes, we have the best in the World, but let us not Socialize it or we are doomed. Make it portable and like Medicare, insist on those who work take it. Those who cannot work, unless an emergency, turn them away. Sorry. What is with Medicare anyway, isn't that socialized now?

AND SO MUCH MORE I COULD SAY, but alas, Ms. is calling. 'Hub

The "Fair Tax" as written will never be fair. Within a decade Congress would have a mess of it just like income taxes. The only really fair tax is a consumption tax, which would be a sales tax that all have to pay irregardless of income level. You would also need to repeal the 16th Amendment or Congress no doubt would bring back the income tax in time.

[JRScott]

If you check with Social Security, at the end of the month, there is no money. Every dollar we have paid into the fund, no longer resides with Social Security. Some claim, Social Security never received any of the money. Remember, employers and self employeed people pay the money to the IRS, not to Socail Security.

In 1939 a law was passed that the money Social Security has at the end of the month, gets placed in the General Fund of the USA government. Social Security, at the end of the month, can not have any money!

If you check the White House website, Bush gave a talk in which he said the government has no intentions of paying the money back to Social Security.

I look at as if somebody has been stealing the money grandma has in her cookie jar and they get caught. To make everybody happy, Grandma is asked to taking out a loan (so as to replace the money in the cookie jar) and she is informed she has to make each and every payment each month.

They can never repay the money. Not only that but even if they did manage to repay the principle you would never get back the lost compounded interest which is what the program needed to survive as the baby boomers retired.

At least Bush is being honest about the government's intention.

It's how crooked our politicians are really.

[JRScott]

As far as having better health insurance in the USA, I would say increase the poverty level in the USA so more people can qualify for medicaid. Another area that could be changed is eliminate private policies. Everybody would pay the same rate for group insurance, within their group. This would provide help provide some coverage for those who have lost their jobs and would eliminate the loophole of pre-existing conditions.

Well we perhaps are on the way to do this. However its a failure cascade loop. Fewer people paying into the system while more people are drawing leads to the programs insolvency earlier.

[JRScott]

In the USA if you have insurance you might be having chemo the next day, but if you don't have insurance, you are out of luck.

My wife fell down on a sidewalk one day. We took her to the hospital. She had a dislocated shoulder and a fracture. She could not get any health care till the HMO gave their blessings. Being it was a Saturday, it took a long time to get the blessing. Once the doctor saw her, he said he couldn't do anything . Why? Her shoulder is dislocated and it takes two people to relocate it. He claimed he had nobody to help him so I told him if that is the only problem, I will help him. I know, the doctor was blowing smoke but what else could I do?


Sure insurance will cost, but when you consider how much we pay now in taxes, we can afford it. We should be getting something for the taxes we pay in.

Why provide Iraqi health care at our expense while some of us go without? We should have been taken care of first. Not right, not right at all.

I am tired of our tax money going to providing services to others instead.

If you dislike the approval process of HMOs you should study the VA approval system. It is even more horrendous. As is the approval system of every single socialized medicine country. In Canada for example some critical care patients wait up to a year for approval of medical treatment. In France people have to buy private insurance on top of the government insurance.

National Health Care is a pipe dream of politicians. We do not have the money to pay for such a system without as I stated earlier massive changes in what we do as a Nation. We can't continue the current entitlement programs past about two decades without further deficit spending making the dollar even weaker or massive cuts to all other programs or raising taxes to an equivalent level of many European Nations.

[BigJohn]

Not all socialized medicine is 'terrible'.

After 9/11/01, I know of 2 countries who have given their people socialized medicine. The countries are Taiwan and Thailand. The care might not be the best in the world, but at least it is available. In the USA, if you don't have insurance and you don't have money.... bye, bye.

When it comes to socialize medicine, the politicians claim we can not have it. But when I mention to them that budgets have to be weaned and bring to their attention the elimination of their health care.......

But if we can provide medical care for Iraqis and others, you would think we could possibly provide care for our own people?

[JRScott]

Not all socialized medicine is 'terrible'.

After 9/11/01, I know of 2 countries who have given their people socialized medicine. The countries are Taiwan and Thailand. The care might not be the best in the world, but at least it is available. In the USA, if you don't have insurance and you don't have money.... bye, bye.

When it comes to socialize medicine, the politicians claim we can not have it. But when I mention to them that budgets have to be weaned and bring to their attention the elimination of their health care.......

But if we can provide medical care for Iraqis and others, you would think we could possibly provide care for our own people?

Only with extreme budget cuts, higher taxes, or a combination of the two can we afford it.

Iraq has a population of less than 30 million, we have a population of over 300 million. Thus its a money game. I do not think as I said earlier we should be paying it for the Iraqis, indeed that might be Unconstitutional. They have their oil revenue and they should start using it to fund their own people's recovery.

[BigJohn]

If we stopped paying health care for up to 30 million Iraqis, we could start providing care for up to 30 million USA citizens.


The politicans say we can't afford anything, but if we ask them how can we afford there medical, they look at us as if we are stupid.

[JollyGG]

Actually the figures I have looked at show that it is not our national debt or social security that is going to give us the biggest problems. It is medicare that we won't be able to afford, due to the increasing age of our population and unchecked increases in health care costs.

I don't know yet how I feel about a national health care system but the more research I do the more I think we probably do need one. There is no way that medicare spending can be maintained if we have no way to control costs, and our current system has not way to do that.

As for the expenses of a national healthcare system. It really wouldn't be any more expensisve that what we already pay. Currently you pay taxes that pay for medicare, medicade, VA benifits, enlisted benifits, congressional health care benifits. Then you and your employer pay for insurance. Then you pay out of pocket for everything that your insurance doesn't pay. If we just redirected and consolidated some of those same dollars we could have a very effective healtcare system. When you add up everything we currently pay Americans pay more for healthcare than any other nation.

I like this site about how an effective national health care system could work.

http://www.pnhp.org/facts/what_is_single_payer.php

According to the above website over 60% of our contries current healthcare expenditure is already government funded.

[BigJohn]

Medicare is raped very similar to the way Social security is by a 1939 law that says after the bills are paid each month, the money left over goes into the General Fund. Last August, for every $300.00 brought in, $200.00 paid the bills and $100.00 went into the General Fund.
For those who have paid into Social Security and Medicare, Social Security has none of your payments; it has been spent by the General Fund. If an insurance or a bank did this with your money, we would have to pay more in taxes so some of the bank or insurance employees can get free meals at the local jail or prison. But not true at the Federal level.

[WhatMoney]

Once again I encourage you all to spend 50 minutes of your time and watch this Frontline program on world health care systems. It's sad so many opinions are expressed here with so little knowledge.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...roundtheworld/

Now JRScott can't watch this because he only has dial-up. So he keeps harping on the Canadian system, when there are many other solutions to health care for all citizens. ALL other civilized industrialized countries in the world have developed a National Health Insurance system. Only the US, with for-profit insurance companies, for-profit hospitals, and a for-profit Congress, haven't solved the problem. If McCain gets elected, he will block any attempt just like Bush - and the poor and uninsured will continue to die - after they spread their diseases to all you insured folks, social justice.

BTW, I live close to Canada and have Canadian friends who are all satisfied with their system, minor delays and all. It's no worse than most for-profit HMO systems in the USA. What they really fear is visiting the US and getting sick. They could go bankrupt in a day if they had to pay out of pocket in the US. It's common to purchase short-term health insurance for the duration of their US visit, while still in Canada, before they risk their life and financial future by crossing the border.

[WhatMoney]

If you dislike the approval process of HMOs you should study the VA approval system. It is even more horrendous. As is the approval system of every single socialized medicine country..

You mean like walking into a free health care clinic in Great Britain without an appointment and getting treated that day for free? How horrendous! They even refund your transportation costs to get there.

In Canada for example some critical care patients wait up to a year for approval of medical treatment.

References please. So if you are having a heart attack, or just got hit by a cement truck in Canada, you need to wait a year to get admitted to the emergency room? The canadian population must be dying off quickly if this is the case. All health care is triaged - even in the US - unless you are a multi-millionaire and have your own personal physician travel with you all the time, like Dick Cheney.

National Health Care is a pipe dream of politicians. We do not have the money to pay for such a system without as I stated earlier massive changes in what we do as a Nation. We can't continue the current entitlement programs past about two decades without further deficit spending making the dollar even weaker or massive cuts to all other programs or raising taxes to an equivalent level of many European Nations.

You should really call it National Health Insurance - which could be optional if you would rather or could afford to pay for it yourself. This is not the impossible pipe dream you have been led to believe by the special interests you keep listening to. And fortunately there are many people working on solutions that won't bankrupt the country any more than it already is. Let's hope enough of them are elected this fall to accomplish something in the next 4 years.. They have to defeat the insurance company lobbies, the drug company lobbies, the AMA lobby, the medical equipment manufacturer's lobby, the medical malpractice lobby, and overcome the greed of conservatives who think they will not personally benefit. It's ironic that Congressmen have the best health insurance in the world and it's free to them for life.

I wonder how many posting here who are against any National Health program presently have NO medical insurance? There are about 50 million that don't - it's the ER or nothing for them. What are you going to do if your insurance is cut off and you can't afford anything? Pray you never get sick or have an accident? Or just pray and hope you self heal?

[MomIcantFindmy]

If you dislike the approval process of HMOs you should study the VA approval system. It is even more horrendous. As is the approval system of every single socialized medicine country. In Canada for example some critical care patients wait up to a year for approval of medical treatment. In France people have to buy private insurance on top of the government insurance.

National Health Care is a pipe dream of politicians. We do not have the money to pay for such a system without as I stated earlier massive changes in what we do as a Nation. We can't continue the current entitlement programs past about two decades without further deficit spending making the dollar even weaker or massive cuts to all other programs or raising taxes to an equivalent level of many European Nations.

Whoa...I live the approval process of the VA. I have found it easy to navigate if you are the slightest bit intelligent. Trust me, I live that dream every month. No problem...persistence and asking for exactly what you want. We now live near Canada...my sister needed care in that country for asthma...ER visit..no wait, no bill. Easy.

Lastly, those who think they are not paying for socialized medicine already are mistaken. I worked many years in a civilian ER and I encourage anyone who thinks they cannot afford socialized medicine to spend a Friday night shift in an innercity ER. You will find out that your taxes are covering 80% of the patients in the ER at grossly over what it would have cost them for a visit to a doctor in town. Here is one perfect example.....50 y/o male comes in complaining of chest pain for 3 weeks. History of bronchitis in March. Resolved. No doctor visit as the clinics he called would not see him without $100 upfront payment. Laid off from work and has a family. Now he receives basic cardiac workup including blood and chest x-ray.. ($500-$800 including ER Doc) Admitted to hospital for Left Lower Lobe Pneumonia. 1 week later discharged.....$10,000 bill. Your taxes just paid that bill that the hospital will end up writing off.....Wow, seems to me like $100 would have been cheaper for the US Government. And this happens over and over again...every day by the 1000's