How to survive the Great Depression of 2008 - 2009

[Kansas1960]

And another thing I need to say. In the book you spoke about the person had to live with family after a few months. Well, that is the way it should be. Family should help out their own, not strangers being forced to help out strangers by income redistribution. When the struggling person persists they will break out and get ahead in most cases. If they cannot then they need to just be poor and miserable, sorry life is tough and that is what God is for. When you ask God for help He provides. In the past churches provided when a family was not present. There are laws in place when people are corrupt they need to be procecuted. If they are not then the people are not doing their jobs electing the right people. When the masses are fed up enough they will make a change when the pain of staying the same is worse than the pain of change.

[AngelinaCatHub]

In Mexico there are no government handouts. People have to work. The Mexicans are very hard workers because they know they have to work to eat and have shelter. Most of the Mexicans over here work 2 jobs. I saw today on Fox News that unemployment in Puerto Rico is crazy high like 30% or something. But the unemployed people refuse to work for $75.00 a day in the coffee plantations. You know why? They are getting "government cheese". I know people that are over a year on unemployment sitting home playing wii. Why work when the government pays you. Now there is talk of the government buying forclosed homes and renting to the previous owners. When is this going to stop? You would have to be a fool to work overtime or start a business to just give it away to people who are trained to be lazy. Let the churches and extended family be the ones to give charity. If you want to eat you need to get your ass in the church. Gosh this country is pi**ing me off.

Wow, I have never seen such interest in a relevant subject.

First let me make this perfectly clear. I have no bias, I am not a bigit and I commend those workers.

Here is my complaint or point: Why are they here, and we are broke? I shall give the benefit of doubt that they are ALL here by green card. Give me my GREEN card as we cannot get food stamps and are living on my SS. I own a car worth too much. Paid for but, we fish for much of our meals and do Angelfoodministries for our foods.

I agree 100% with the above posts in that if we ALL had to fend for ourselves and did NOT have Govmint as our "Big Brother", we would be a better nation. Why hell, I would even have learned to garden a long time ago.

If it were not for the "illegal" workers, our potatoes and cabbage would cost a lot more. OH, believe me they will. Just to give you "FREE" healthcare.

[AngelinaCatHub]

If anyone wants to point fingers at the thieves, all you need to do is point to DC. The House, Senate, and President (regardless of D or R) are bought and paid for.

Those are the true ba$tard$ that have sold out our country and future. Without them, none of anything mentioned was possible.

Although I agree with LRPRN, Kansis1960, and others, et. al. , I cannot post or write books here. Frogger, has it down in a "Phrase". We all have been "HAD", and at this time, our military in Afghanistan has our good son's dieing due to our current government and I hate the word "dithering" but too stupid, to take actions requested by a General of our military that "HE" positioned.

This is only a little PISS-OFF, I have with the ruination of our Country that I am unfortunate to live long enough to see. I now regret being alive long enough to see this.

I shall NEVER register any weapon I have, but will be pleased to die holding it in my hand in defense of my household. 'Hub (in protest)

[lrprn]

And another thing I need to say. In the book you spoke about the person had to live with family after a few months.

I don't know what book you read, but in Nickeled and Dimed this author never "went to live with family."

When after doing everything humanly possible to stretch her cash as far as possible in each location and job - she rented Rent-a-Wrecks to have a car, she lived in the lowest of low-rent motels, she did without healthcare, etc - when she ran out of money, she had to find ways to survive on her own or throw in the towel. The author could do that - she has a real life to go back to - but how about those who can't?

Our society has taken a distinct turn the last decade or so down the ""I'm ok, and if someone else isn't ok, then it's their own fault" road. I want to see a lot more compassionate help regardless of its source and a lot less finger-pointing and blaming. And yes, expecting accountability and responsibility on all sides - helper and acceptor - are an important part of that help.

Having been knee-deep in inner-city hospitals most of my professional life as a nurse, the large majority of people you and others were talking about earlier in this thread as "being on the dole" often are desperate to escape and doing everything possible to do so. Nickeled and Dimed does a great job explaining why it so rarely happens. When you have the game stacked against you, when you have no resources at hand, and when you have no reserves - it's very, very hard - often impossible - to "pull yourself up by your own bootstraps" and escape upwards. The real world where that used to be possible is shrinking by the day. Only our perceptions that it's still possible remain unchanged.

I appreciate your faith and deep beliefs, Kansas, and thanks for responding. We may not share the same political beliefs, but we can always respectfully agree to disagree and still remain cyber-friends

[banca rotta]

Our society has taken a distinct turn the last decade or so down the ""I'm ok, and if someone else isn't ok, then it's their own fault" road. I want to see a lot more compassionate help regardless of its source and a lot less finger-pointing and blaming. And yes, expecting accountability and responsibility on all sides - helper and acceptor - are an important part of that help.

You are getting your wish and a big part of why the USA is bankrupt is that very reason. During the depression when we were not "a lot more compassionate" the poor simply starved to death.

Now a lot of poor get food stamps, are obese and get free healthcare at taxpayer expense to treat their diabetes.

This subject is very touchy with you and while you see more pain then some of us do you fail to see that the social system you and others want are wiping out the middle class even faster then the greedy bankers are.

When Obama signs off on the "healthcare fix" in a few weeks you will see the jobless numbers and bankruptcies rise further and more scared people depending on govt for the solutions.

Happy Thanksgiving!

[Kansas1960]

Please help save the starving fish.....

I was recently down at the Lake of the Ozarks. I saw something that really disturbed me. I was drinking my beer during the day leaving a bar and heading down the dock towards my friends boat so we could have a beer at another bar (supporting the lake bars). I noticed that the fish were coming up to the dock looking for food. I thought to myelf, oh, those poor fish need some food. I was shocked that the rich people were walking past these fish and not throwing fish pellets (really dog food sold through gum machines). Those mean hateful rich people, probably the type that would read a Sarah Palin book or go to a tea party were ignoring the cries of the hungry fish. I sat my beer down and reached into my swimming trunks and pulled out a quarter and purchased some food for the poor fish. They were so happy they started congregating at the surface and water started to boil with anticipation as the fish pellets started hitting the water. Hundreds of fish were smacking, jumping and fighting for those precious pellets. I think we should ask congress to send some stimulus money to feed these starving fish! We can't expect these fish to find food on their own. Sould we not tax those rich boat owners and use the money to feed the fish? Just think of all the jobs this will create feeding starving fish. I don't think they remember how to find food themselves since they have been fed by tourist for so long.

[nc73]

I was recently down at the Lake of the Ozarks. I saw something that really disturbed me. I was drinking my beer during the day leaving a bar and heading down the dock towards my friends boat so we could have a beer at another bar (supporting the lake bars). I noticed that the fish were coming up to the dock looking for food. I thought to myelf, oh, those poor fish need some food. I was shocked that the rich people were walking past these fish and not throwing fish pellets (really dog food sold through gum machines). Those mean hateful rich people, probably the type that would read a Sarah Palin book or go to a tea party were ignoring the cries of the hungry fish. I sat my beer down and reached into my swimming trunks and pulled out a quarter and purchased some food for the poor fish. They were so happy they started congregating at the surface and water started to boil with anticipation as the fish pellets started hitting the water. Hundreds of fish were smacking, jumping and fighting for those precious pellets. I think we should ask congress to send some stimulus money to feed these starving fish! We can't expect these fish to find food on their own. Sould we not tax those rich boat owners and use the money to feed the fish? Just think of all the jobs this will create feeding starving fish. I don't think they remember how to find food themselves since they have been fed by tourist for so long.

I'd take a big net and have at it. Gotta feed myself first.

[OHBOY]

Quote: "I was shocked that the rich people were walking past these fish and not throwing fish pellets (really dog food sold through gum machines). Those mean hateful rich people, probably the type that would read a Sarah Palin book or go to a tea party were ignoring the cries of the hungry fish. I sat my beer down and reached into my swimming trunks and pulled out a quarter and purchased some food for the poor fish. They were so happy they started congregating at the surface and water started to boil with anticipation as the fish pellets started hitting the water. Hundreds of fish were smacking, jumping and fighting for those precious pellets. I think we should ask congress to send some stimulus money to feed these starving fish! We can't expect these fish to find food on their own. Sould we not tax those rich boat owners and use the money to feed the fish? Just think of all the jobs this will create feeding starving fish. I don't think they remember how to find food themselves since they have been fed by tourist for so long."

[qsr]

Hmm this guy (the original writer) was very prescient. I'm not really an alarmist, and I don't think ALL politicians are bad, but he's been dead on about what is going on. The problem is that the people who are running for office aren't suffering very much, and they are largely insulated from us commoners who are taking it in the shorts. Our best solution is probably to give them good primary fights, because by the time you get to a general election the choice is all too obvious. You get people who give lip service to the common man vs. the guy who just wants to take everything you got and give it to some big corporation. We need to keep the people who have good intentions honest.

[Tom_Mi]

Our middle class is gone because it went to China.

The middle class went to China because a religion of "free trade utopia" was sold to us as an economic principle. We've never questioned it. The fat guy on the radio says anarchist free trade is great, and why question him? He's on the radio so he must be correct. Follow the money people....It wasn't the "rich bankers", Obama, Bush, icky poor people who want our money, or any of that other tripe.

Our middle class is gone because WE go to walmart, buy the chinese crap, and head home in the Kia hoping someone else was the sucker willing to pay for domestic items. It was every one of US and our own undisciplined, slovenly greed. Gotta have the big tv. New furniture. Take the cruise. Gotta have the SUV in time for the class reunion. Ipod. Broadband. It's fun to keep doing whatever we want and blaming all our problems on others...but it's also a testament to our collective ignorance as a nation. By now everyone reading this has relatives left unemployed (or re-employed doing crap jobs) because manufacturers left town. It can't possibly because the factory went to China, right? It must be the mexicans picking vegetables. That certainly makes much more sense.

Until we grow some stones and make imports *painfully* expensive, we will be more and more screwed. Quitting smoking is tough. Quitting heroin is tougher. Quitting imports might be something we're completely unable to handle.

And the Chinese government knows it.

[MSbklawyer]

Our middle class is gone because it went to China.

The middle class went to China because a religion of "free trade utopia" was sold to us as an economic principle. We've never questioned it. The fat guy on the radio says anarchist free trade is great, and why question him? He's on the radio so he must be correct. Follow the money people....It wasn't the "rich bankers", Obama, Bush, icky poor people who want our money, or any of that other tripe.

Our middle class is gone because WE go to walmart, buy the chinese crap, and head home in the Kia hoping someone else was the sucker willing to pay for domestic items. It was every one of US and our own undisciplined, slovenly greed. Gotta have the big tv. New furniture. Take the cruise. Gotta have the SUV in time for the class reunion. Ipod. Broadband. It's fun to keep doing whatever we want and blaming all our problems on others...but it's also a testament to our collective ignorance as a nation. By now everyone reading this has relatives left unemployed (or re-employed doing crap jobs) because manufacturers left town. It can't possibly because the factory went to China, right? It must be the mexicans picking vegetables. That certainly makes much more sense.

Until we grow some stones and make imports *painfully* expensive, we will be more and more screwed. Quitting smoking is tough. Quitting heroin is tougher. Quitting imports might be something we're completely unable to handle.

And the Chinese government knows it.

First rate post.

BUT . . .

Protectionism has its evils too. You only need to look back to the 70s and 80s to see them: When it was prohibitively expensive to buy Hondas or Toyotas, the big 3 automakers produced cars that were complete pieces of $h*!. And charged out the nose for the privilege of buying one.

Economics 101 teaches you what lack of competition brings. Protectionism is simply government mandated lack of competition.

As is usually the case, the truth (and the solution) lies somewhere in the middle between the two extremes.

U.S. industries are hamstrung by economic regulation; environmental regulation; threats of worker lawsuits based on race, sex, age, sexual orientation; unreasonable union demands and a thousand other things. Frankly, if I were in charge of a major manufacturing company, I wouldn't open a company here (or in western Europe) on a dare.

We don't want to force American workers to compete with 12 cent per hour child labor from Bangladesh. But on the other hand, we don't want to go back to the bad old days of $80,000 per year unskilled labor in automotive assembly plants.

[Tom_Mi]

Thanks MSbk...
My brother used to make 20/hr as a Journeyman tool/die maker til' the company folded last year. Now he's in the maint. dept of a cake/frosting factory. (nights/ 14/hr, 4 kids, mortgage, 1 in college)

My point isn't so much to demonstrate my brother's plight. He's tired but happy to be out of automotive. My point is that that food/beverage does NOT have chinese competition and nobody's making 80k/yr. I don't think pharmaceutical manufacturing pays much either. When my clients (tier 2 auto manufacturers) move a plant, the workers getting laid off made about 10-20/hr..and lived a simple lifestyle.

The UAW hurt the big 3, to be sure. But I don't see any evidence those problems would exist (or ever DID exist) throughout the economy.

[marywash]

That victory garden would still be a great idea..with all of the lack of diversity in our food supply, I feel like people would benefit from having their own garden/produce supply. Using a package like the one someone had listed would be ideal. Another one that would be great to start out a healthy home garden would be one I found here, http://sustainableseedco.com/survival-seeds/ they also have a huge supply of some of the cheapest organic and bulk seed that I have seen for sale.