Predatory Subprime Pioneer, Still On Obama Team

[Bandit]

The Three Greek Orthodox churches did indeed splinter from the early Catholic Church, as did the Sabellanism (which is also modalism and monarchism).Since the split was before the conferences that gave rise to the Nicene Creed many hold that they aren't splinters but they in essence are their early leaders were revolutionaries much like Martin Luther would be many many years later.

Arianism arose from the teachings of Arius in the 3rd century. He was trained in Alexandria and taught there, it is possible his influence was impacted by the Sabellanism as well as the Roman Catholic church. Arius himself was a member of the Roman Catholic Church until he was excommunicated for his beliefs around 318 AD. He died 11 years after the Council of Nicea.

The Ebionites were an early Judeo Christian church sometimes associated with the Nazarenes. They did not believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ. They believe he was a mortal messianic prophet. They also referred James as the head of the church in Jerusalem, and rejected Paul of Tarsus, primarily because Paul was a Roman Citizen. The earliest writings we have that have survived though put the Ebionites about 50 years after the creation of the Catholic church.

Druids of themselves were not Christians. They followed the Celt gods, and were wiped out by the Holy Roman Empire. However their writings did survive and some of their traditions in works not destroyed by the Holy Roman Empire. This gave rise to the Neo Druids or modern druids. Neodruids worship Celt, Norse, Anglo-Saxon and even Christian gods this however should not be confused as a branch of Christianity itself.

that is a typical reply I would expect from someone who is RCC or LDS.

What they actually believe is not of my concern. All of those beliefs existed in the first to 3rd century.

you would know that is started as greece philosophy long before the RCC. & that there is no explanation on how it got to the celts & it WAS NOT by way of the RCC.

I figured you were just like the others when you have some nerve saying the celts & druids are not christians. ah but that is exactly why the RCC tried to kill them, if only they could get to them.

so what is your excuse for the gnostics? & all the gnostic writings?
what is your excuse for the jewish christians?
what is your excuse for the paulines?

the nazarines & ebionites all existed before the RCC so for you to say they are not christian based on a different belief is typical but does not warrant your two religion theory.

all of whom existed before & during the RCC.

oh that is right. THEY ARE NOT CHRISTIANS BECAUSE YOU SAY SO.

I am not going to keep telling you something because I feel you have some kind of religious agenda to make it look like your religion is some great thing & everyone else is below you, typical of RCC, JW, LDS, SDA, you all have that in common.

...or the RCC or LDS are the only right religions & everyone else is wrong because you say the splintered.

all you are doing is making it look like there were only two beliefs/religions when all those other beliefs (you call splinter)were always there from the start.
you simply cannot acknowledge them as valid christian beliefs on their own without attributing them to some other group because you know they all disagree with your religion.

i am not concerned about the beliefs or the dogma details. the point is there were many many other beliefs beside the two you keep declaring as first & ONLY. so you will have to deal with that sooner or later.

[Bandit]

like i am so sure only two christian beliefs/religions existed clear up to the 3rd century.
it is so obvious as all they did was argue & war constantly forever over who was right & who was wrong & naturlalalala those with more political power would win but never be able to supress the others forever.

usually I hear that the only one christian religion existed was the RCC.
but somehow the LDS are the only other ones who got their foot in the door?

sounds like captialism.

that does give me a good laugh

The Three Greek Orthodox churches did indeed splinter from the early Catholic Church

there were two different types of catholics. it was not just the RCC. i would agree that you find some influence of the RCC in all these religions due to supression, culture merge & war but the beliefs themselves were always there & were always different.

the Greeks have always held their own & can trace it back to the first century supposedly through andrew as early as 38.

now to say sabellian split from the RCC I can understand but that does not diminish that the beliefs & ideas were always there just because the RCC decided they did not want that at a certain point in time.

any way I am not going to keep splitting hairs & I have no problem being corrected & admitting I am wrong, but it is so obvious that there is more than enough evidence that there were many different christian beliefs/religions & not just RCC. & THEN some hundreds of centuries later only one more?

i dont think soooo.

& if you really want to get technical, there are ample evidence showing that the whole jesus myth was taken from other myths, which puts the pagan roman empire LAST in duplicating & stealing from others & their religion is hardly the first & only with an identical messiah story.

ugh

[Bandit]

Just that it's been nice talking to you about this. I enjoy a good conversation/debate without the normal flame wars that erupt.

same here. it is refreshing to meet a christian who does not think they are the only ones going to heaven & all other chirstians get the flame devil pit who believe different. I always like the anglicans, the christian science, the Unitarian as they all seem very educated as well. & thanks for showing me a different side to the UCC than Wright.
but most others....well now....nother story.

I'm a firm believer in freedom of religion and freedom from religion as well. It's a personal choice that each individual makes based on their life experiences.

I am the same. If someone wishes to believe they have hundreds of little fairies living under their garden then they should be allowed.
We should also be allowed to choose to abstain & reject garden fairies, as it is a very individual thing.

so how am I doing on my history lesson?

I think I have had enough of religioso trauma for the month

[WhatMoney]

I think I could turn and live with animals.
They are so placid and self-contained.
They do not sweat and whine about their condition.
They do not lie awake in the dark and weep for their sins.
They do not make me sick discussing their duty to God.
Not one is dissatisfied.
Not one is demented by the mania of owning things.
Not one kneels to another,
Nor to his own kind that lived thousands of years ago.
Not one is respectable, or unhappy the whole world over.

Pete Seeger,

from his introduction to the song "There Was an Old Woman Who Swallowed A Fly",
Pete Seeger and Sonny Terry at Carnegie Hall, Folkway Records, released Jan.1, 1958.

"I know an old lady that swallowed a fly,
I don't know why she swallowed a fly,
I guess she'll die..."

http://www.rhapsody.com/player?type=...n=&guid=&from=
.

[WhatMoney]

Teenage boy from faith-healing family dies

[JollyGG]

What LDS and Catholic is the 2 OG
Right....Do we need a history lesson here?
LDs is mess as i stated from the start disobeyed God and add books to the bible
Current Catholics are so wrapped up in order it fails, also its routed in Pagan beliefs as well, Also they push to pray to the saints and Mary, God said he is a jealous God and you shall have no other Gods

The OG, IS Jesus no one else, nothing else, no pope, no redneck, who added to the bible

Wow. Before you tell me what I, and my church believe, maybe you need to do a little research instead of quoting commonly held misbelifes about the way my faith works at me. Try talking about what the church actually believes to someone who is actually educated about Catholic beliefs. I will admit that one major failing of many of my religion is a certain laziness and therefore some very common miscomprehensions about our beliefs persist in our society. We do not and never have prayed to saints or Mary (we do, however, seek their intercession on our behalf - basically no different than when you ask members of your congregation to pray for you. We ask the Saints to pray for us too). I could address so many incorrect points other than the one about Mary. But this is not the correct forum for that debate.

JR Scott basically just points out that all Christian (religions that believe in Christ as the son of God) are broken off of one of two other Religions. First there was the Catholic Church. The Catholic church, by it's own modern admission, has done some incorrect things throughout history, resulting in many people who have disagreed with the Church and left to form their own denominations. However, they take with them a set of core belifes that bind them all to Christs death and the birth of Chritianity.

As for what it takes to be a Christian. It takes a real faith in everything the Apostles Creed teaches us. How that belife manifests itself is where you get all the different Christian denominations.

So to answer someone else's earlier question - "Which Christian denomination is right". I would assume that since they all are based on the same common core of beliefs that it would then be possible for them all to be.

There are of course a myriads of other religions but I am not discussing those other than Christianity in this exact post.

[JollyGG]

Yeah, let's get back to Guilt By Association. Religion is an invention of the human mind. Show me the facts, not faith. Let's see some miracles - examined by sceptical scientists of course. Walking on water, water into wine, bringing back the dead (after a few days in the ground) - something convincing. No magic tricks please.

What's funny is I am a scientist, a biologist, a medical researcher. The more I learn about our world and about the possible or probable origin of our world and all the amazing diversity and similarities in our world the more I believe in God. As others have said, I can list several miracles, but as you don't wish to believe (which is fine with me) you won't see them anyway.

However, I will ask just a few questions that science does not have the answer for. Maybe we need to continue searching or maybe Religion has the answers, or maybe there is still another answer out there.

Where did the Big Bang originate (If you are a believer of that particular theory of creation)? Where did the original matter and Force come from? Where did it start? What was there before?

Where did the first one celled organism come from for all other organisms to descend from (If you are a believer of evolution?)?

What event caused such rapid mutation that we now can have the complex organisms we have? Especially considering that microorganism do just fine without any new mutations? And the earth is not very old for the massive amount of diversity we find.

I have more.

If you don't believe in God, I believe that that is valid belief. It is actually a harder belief than mine. I have something to draw comfort and strength from (real or imagined I still draw strength and guidance from my faith and therefore it have value to me even if I am someday proven wrong.). So I guess I am not trying to imply that you haven't though your beliefs through. I actually believe that many atheists have thought it through very clearly.

I'm just trying to point out that science doesn't have all the answers either. Actually, the more I work in science and learn about science the more amazed I am at our lack of knowledge.

[Bandit]

I think I could turn and live with animals.
They are so placid and self-contained.
They do not sweat and whine about their condition.
They do not lie awake in the dark and weep for their sins.
They do not make me sick discussing their duty to God.
Not one is dissatisfied.
Not one is demented by the mania of owning things.
Not one kneels to another,
Nor to his own kind that lived thousands of years ago.
Not one is respectable, or unhappy the whole world over.

Pete Seeger,

from his introduction to the song "There Was an Old Woman Who Swallowed A Fly",
Pete Seeger and Sonny Terry at Carnegie Hall, Folkway Records, released Jan.1, 1958.

"I know an old lady that swallowed a fly,
I don't know why she swallowed a fly,
I guess she'll die..."

http://www.rhapsody.com/player?type=...n=&guid=&from=
.

i think they swallowed more than a fly
It amazes me at how powerful the mind is & what can be conjured up as fact without a drop of evidence. if there were something other than religious ink & bloody wars it would sure make a difference.

what always gets me is when they say you have to believe this & that & then when you point out all the other stories that are excatly the same (christian & pagan) are identical...they tell you the story of madonna, Athens & isis & whatnot- it is not true but change the name to mary & jesus tell the same exact story & it is true.

Thankfully the 4th largest group today are the ones who reject all insitituionalized religion & it keeps growing & I assume it is because they are fed up with the lies & superstitions that were crammed down there throats.

The family did not seek medical attention. The boy's cause of death is unknown.

I am quite familiar with a lot of those tv preachers over the years who have a lot of people fooled by their antics but they sure do make a great living. I suppose when it gets to be that severe the state has a right to intervene...& I would say primarily because you cannot deny a child medical attention for your own stupid belief for yourself & let someone else die based on faith instead of fact which is nothing more than ignorant neglect.

[Bandit]

If you don't believe in God, I believe that that is valid belief. It is actually a harder belief than mine.

it is not that people dont have a belief in a god. it is the bloodshed, hate & dogmatic lies in religion that people are fed up with.

there are 2 different aspects. first the (1)religion is what creates the (2)god. not the god creating a religion.

these old religions are being examined today & the people donot fall for it like they used to. you know yourself that catholics are leaving your religion by the thousands especially in south america.
that does not mean they dont have a belief in a god. it just means they reject the religion.

but honestly jollyGG, I have met some nice catholics, especially the anglicans not so much the romans, but I have also met very rude, nasty, hateful catholics. so obviously it is not the religion that makes people what they are & there must be something more to it.
would you agree?

& I cannot deny its spoiled history.

so just because someone rejects the christian religion or whatever religion, would not mean they actually reject a god or the christ spirit.

What's funny is I am a scientist, a biologist, a medical researcher.

as a scientist, have you ever looked at the different forms of pantheism & panentheism?
have you ever looked at some of the american indian beliefs? & what the celtics believed? they reson with me at times.

& I just wanted to say thank you for acknowledging that your religion is not perfect & has made mistakes. That says a lot about your character & attitude which I admire.

[Bandit]

Where did the Big Bang originate (If you are a believer of that particular theory of creation)? Where did the original matter and Force come from? Where did it start? What was there before?.

from one little tiny atom that exploded
and maybe that one little tiny atom changed & evolved as the god

there has been some good & newer theories on this stuff on history channel recently.

[JollyGG]

from one little tiny atom that exploded
and maybe that one little tiny atom changed & evolved as the god

there has been some good & newer theories on this stuff on history channel recently.

Where did that tiny atom come from?

[WhatMoney]

Where did the first one celled organism come from for all other organisms to descend from (If you are a believer of evolution?)?

I'm surprised you attribute the Origin of Life to a God. There are many plausible theories, and none of them mention or require the intervention of an intelligent force. As a scientist do you really believe in Creationism?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_life should help you understand how living matter might evolve from inorganic matter. God not required.

Now you can always say that the natural physical laws of all matter are "God", instead of looking for some big guy in the sky. But that's not how the religious think. Science has a history of explaining prior mysteries of the world, much to the chagrin of the ancient priests who, with no scientific knowledge, got it all wrong.

Atoms are composed of many sub-particles. Where did those high energy subparticles come from? Was God just a gigantic ball of energy that exploded and condensed into all matter as we know it? Hey that sounds good to me. Try to prove otherwise. Maybe that is what they mean when they say God is all around us?

Cosmology is a large subject (pun intended). From our earth-centric viewing point there will always be uncertainties. And the religious takes advantage of those fundamental uncertainies to claim "God did it". This tactic doesn't impress very many serious scientists. The discoverers of DNA, Francis Crick and James Watson for example are atheists. Oh my, what do they know?

http://www.youtube.com/v/gdRZk4NRgYs&hl=en

.

[Bandit]

Where did that tiny atom come from?

but i already said the tiny atom was the god, so it did not come from anywhere. it always was.

but i dont mean in terms of the RCC god or the arian god or any of the other hebrew gods.

[Bandit]

Now you can always say that the natural physical laws of all matter are "God", instead of looking for some big guy in the sky. But that's not how the religious think.

very well put.

i think the native american indians had more going & were ahead of their time because they saw the 'great spirit' in, through & by the elements themselves & did not go off looking for some giant Zeus to turn into a man or give it human or whatever attributes.

[JollyGG]

I'm surprised you attribute the Origin of Life to a God. There are many plausible theories, and none of them mention or require the intervention of an intelligent force. As a scientist do you really believe in Creationism?

Actually, I belive in intelligent design.

I don't understand why I have to belive in things as "either or". I belive that something had to come first and I belive that life and the universe is too ordered to be an accident. I'm not sure if I belive in evolution or not (the jury is still out) however I do belive in natural selection.

Science still leaves lots of unanswered questions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_life should help you understand how living matter might evolve from inorganic matter. God not required.

Where did the inorganic matter come from?

Now you can always say that the natural physical laws of all matter are "God", instead of looking for some big guy in the sky. But that's not how the religious think. Science has a history of explaining prior mysteries of the world, much to the chagrin of the ancient priests who, with no scientific knowledge, got it all wrong.

The one thing that continually amazes and excites me about science is how little we know. We are constantly discovering that formerly belived truths are wrong and new knowledge is constantly developing. You may think that science has all the answers. But wow, is it amazing how few there really are.

Atoms are composed of many sub-particles. Where did those high energy subparticles come from? Was God just a gigantic mass of energy that exploded and condensed into all matter as we know it? Hey that sounds good to me. Try to prove otherwise. Maybe that is what they mean when they say God is all around us?

I don't claim to know exactly what God is. Mabey he is the energy mass, mabey he is the creator of the energy mass. But no one has answered yet, where that "gigantic mass of energy that exploded and condensed into all matter" came from.

Cosmology is a large subject (pun intended). From our earth-centric viewing point there will always be uncertainties. And the religious takes advantage of those fundamental uncertainies to claim "God did it". This tactic doesn't impress very many serious scientists. The discoverers of DNA, Francis Crick and James Watson for example are atheists. Oh my, what do they know?

Actually, my questions weren't entirely about the creation of the earth, but about the creation of the universe. I have no problem with the numerous theries out there about the creation of the universe, the earth and life. I think that it all being a coincidence is hard to belive. I think that there is a force that has ordered and guided that creation.

But, as I said belive what you will. As a scientist I am more aware than anyone that science does not hold all the answers. So I find science a poor proof that God doesn't exist. The fact that some major discoveries were made by athiests proves nothing. Major scientific advances have been made by athiests, agnostices, budists, taoist, jews, christians, and ever other type of beliver and non beliver. They are all curious minds searching for answers. I am also still searching for answers to scientific questions. It's an exciting journey and I can understand why numerous people of varied belifes are excited about the search as well. Belive it or not, no one required me to to turn away from my religious convictions in order to get a degree in science. Neither has my religion required that I stop searching for the cure to heart failure and cardiovascular disease.