Predatory Subprime Pioneer, Still On Obama Team

[jerzey]

Yeah, let's get back to Guilt By Association. Religion is an invention of the human mind. Show me the facts, not faith. Let's see some miracles - examined by sceptical scientists of course. Walking on water, water into wine, bringing back the dead (after a few days in the ground) - something convincing. No magic tricks please.

That arugement doesn't work
Cause what proof I have you wont accept
Faith, healing and prays being answered to you doesnt count because you cant see it, God has already address this debate thousands of years ago, and you arent the first to comment on a message broad with that answer

You know God wont step down from Heaven to please you or to prove anything to you, there for you win the debate in your mind and you can walk around with a smile.

[Bandit]

hey mgmadara

i told ya so (well you already knew) & it did not take for the proof

[Bandit]

Yeah, let's get back to Guilt By Association. Religion is an invention of the human mind. Show me the facts, not faith. Let's see some miracles - examined by sceptical scientists of course. Walking on water, water into wine, bringing back the dead (after a few days in the ground) - something convincing. No magic tricks please.

we have three things in common

[JRScott]

no JRScott , they are not the only (2) ones.

there are gnostics, there is sabellianism and modalistic monarchianism, there are arians, there are ebonites, celts & christian druids, greek orthodox, there were many, many other groups that survived the holocaust of christinSanity.

every christian institution (of about 23,000) claims to be the right one & most of them the only right one & say they all go back to peter & apostolic succession & have the authority of their god & whatnot...

All current Christian denominations come from those two. Religion is a contentious subject which is why I didn't want to answer. However to organize a Church in God's name one has to have authority from God, and you can only get that authority from God or someone duly appointed by God.

Only those two churches have for their traditions an unbroken priesthood, now of course both can't be the right one. That you have to determine for yourself through prayer and study.

I could go into depth about it but it was something I didn't want to stir up to much and was initially reluctant to answer, the internet here was down most of yesterday up until this morning so I couldn't get back sooner and reply.

So back to the OP, we cannot merely dismiss Obama because of staffers he's chosen, as if we remove all staffers who were lobbyist or had shady dealings then no one would be staffing Obama or McCain's campaign's (and possibly Moore's, Barr's, Baldwin's etc)

[jerzey]

hey mgmadara

i told ya so (well you already knew) & it did not take for the proof

Feel Good Religion is for the prideful
If you believe in God you will believe his words
you dont get to customize your beliefs to what you feel is a good idea
for whatever reason

When you get a DWI the cop doesnt say "MR Smith you broke the law you should go to jail but because it doesnt make you feel good you can go home"

God has Laws and promises he had made and sticks to

[JRScott]

Yeah, let's get back to Guilt By Association. Religion is an invention of the human mind. Show me the facts, not faith. Let's see some miracles - examined by sceptical scientists of course. Walking on water, water into wine, bringing back the dead (after a few days in the ground) - something convincing. No magic tricks please.

Faith must precede the miracle. It doesn't work the other way around. The Jews had many witnesses and thousands witnessed the reported works of Jesus in the Bible, yet only a few actually believed in his words at the time.

[jerzey]

All current Christian denominations come from those two. Religion is a contentious subject which is why I didn't want to answer. However to organize a Church in God's name one has to have authority from God, and you can only get that authority from God or someone duly appointed by God.

Only those two churches have for their traditions an unbroken priesthood, now of course both can't be the right one. That you have to determine for yourself through prayer and study.

I could go into depth about it but it was something I didn't want to stir up to much and was initially reluctant to answer, the internet here was down most of yesterday up until this morning so I couldn't get back sooner and reply.

So back to the OP, we cannot merely dismiss Obama because of staffers he's chosen, as if we remove all staffers who were lobbyist or had shady dealings then no one would be staffing Obama or McCain's campaign's (and possibly Moore's, Barr's, Baldwin's etc)

What LDS and Catholic is the 2 OG
Right....Do we need a history lesson here?
LDs is mess as i stated from the start disobeyed God and add books to the bible
Current Catholics are so wrapped up in order it fails, also its routed in Pagan beliefs as well, Also they push to pray to the saints and Mary, God said he is a jealous God and you shall have no other Gods

The OG, IS Jesus no one else, nothing else, no pope, no redneck, who added to the bible

[Bandit]

All current Christian denominations come from those two.

no they do not. you need to go learn your history.

[Bandit]

Feel Good Religion is for the prideful
If you believe in God you will believe his words
you dont get to customize your beliefs to what you feel is a good idea
for whatever reason


God has Laws and promises he had made and sticks to

i do not believe in your feel good religion or your god & if you intend on shoving it down my throat then I will report to the mods as harassment.

[Bandit]

You have no idea if Jesus is the Way?
Leave your church, RUN for the hills
When you die its too late. If you dont know in your heart now you are in the wrong place.

You arent a REAL Christian if you dont KNOW/Belive that Jesus is the way truth and light that he is your lord and is is alive seated at the right hand of God
Till you believe that you are not a real chirstian simply deeds dot make the person

you need to back off of other people here who do not belong to your religion. this place is not for your personal soap box, preaching & for you to prostelyze your religion & to puff your religion up above everyone elses.

& quite frankly I dont give two cents about the christian religion, especially your own personal flavor.

[JRScott]

What LDS and Catholic is the 2 OG
Right....Do we need a history lesson here?
LDs is mess as i stated from the start disobeyed God and add books to the bible
Current Catholics are so wrapped up in order it fails, also its routed in Pagan beliefs as well, Also they push to pray to the saints and Mary, God said he is a jealous God and you shall have no other Gods

The OG, IS Jesus no one else, nothing else, no pope, no redneck, who added to the bible

The LDS church did not disobey the tenets of the Bible, they disobeyed your interpretation of the Bible. First off I'm assuming your referring to the passage in Revelations. There is a similar passage in the 4th chapter of Deuteronomy. (I think its verse 2). Those versus are to apply to the book that they are in not the Bible as a whole and it is likely similar passages were originally in all the books but lost through translation over time. Bible comes from the Greek Biblio which means many books.

It is also important to remember that the New Testament is not ordered in the chronological order that they were written. Revelations was written first, not last.

Jesus Christ is Jehovah of the Old Testament.

[JRScott]

no they do not. you need to go learn your history.

All the Christian churches today did branch from either those two churches, or from churches that had early split off from those two churches or were influenced by those two or their splinters.

However arguing with you will do no good.

[Bandit]

All the Christian churches today did branch from either those two churches, or from churches that had early split off from those two churches or were influenced by those two or their splinters.

However arguing with you will do no good.

again. i gave you several valid religions that are christian that DID NOT COME/splinter From THOSE TWO GROUPS. Any historian can tell you there are way more than two groups & not everyone splintered off of only two. it is simply not true.

granted, the catholics tried to snuff all the others & kill them off from the first & third century, but they failed.

why do you ignore the other valid groups that have nothing to do with catholic or LDS? in fact some of them were around way before catholic & at the same time & WAY WAY before LDS.

unless you are going to say they are not christian? like so many christians like to do.

[mgmadara]

Thanks for the notes & a kind one at that. We are on the same page after all.

I kind of figured we were on the same page, but maybe I wasn't expressing myself very clearly at first.

I was simply not fully aware of much difference between the church & denomination, though I know that normally you cannot go just by one.
What usually happens with that is someone disfellowships or gets disfellowshipped or some kind of politics evolve.

I do know that one church is africa centered which to me is bizzare. That would be like me being Native American INdian centered while denying my irish & german roots. it simply does not represent america at all.

What happened at Obama's church concerns me greatly. Rev. Wright retired in early 2008 so if he was the only problem there I see no need for Obama to leave. But since Obama did leave, it tells me that there are still problems there.

I am very agnostic with religion (all religion) so I feel people have a hard time relating to me. not so much agnostic about a god but the religions themselves, the gods they create in their minds & what characters & attributes people come up with faiths treated as fact.

but thanks again, as we see things the same concerning this part.

I'm a firm believer in freedom of religion and freedom from religion as well. It's a personal choice that each individual makes based on their life experiences.

but as for jesus (& the many saviors of the world) I see it in many different lights & aspects & find the legalism & hierarchy created with the denominations is not jesus at all. there are some very scary jesus people out there & bloodbath christian religions with a very sad & bitter history.

The extremists that exist in every religion scare me, too.

anything else? LOL!

Just that it's been nice talking to you about this. I enjoy a good conversation/debate without the normal flame wars that erupt.

hey mgmadara

i told ya so (well you already knew) & it did not take for the proof

I knew there would be people out there that didn't think I was a real Christian, but that's OK and it doesn't bother me. I'm very comfortable with my personal relationship with God and thankful that my maker will be my only judge.

[JRScott]

again. i gave you several valid religions that are christian that DID NOT COME/splinter From THOSE TWO GROUPS. Any historian can tell you there are way more than two groups & not everyone splintered off of only two. it is simply not true.

granted, the catholics tried to snuff all the others & kill them off from the first & third century, but they failed.

why do you ignore the other valid groups that have nothing to do with catholic or LDS? in fact some of them were around way before catholic & at the same time & WAY WAY before LDS.

unless you are going to say they are not christian? like so many christians like to do.

The Three Greek Orthodox churches did indeed splinter from the early Catholic Church, as did the Sabellanism (which is also modalism and monarchism).Since the split was before the conferences that gave rise to the Nicene Creed many hold that they aren't splinters but they in essence are their early leaders were revolutionaries much like Martin Luther would be many many years later.

Arianism arose from the teachings of Arius in the 3rd century. He was trained in Alexandria and taught there, it is possible his influence was impacted by the Sabellanism as well as the Roman Catholic church. Arius himself was a member of the Roman Catholic Church until he was excommunicated for his beliefs around 318 AD. He died 11 years after the Council of Nicea.

The Ebionites were an early Judeo Christian church sometimes associated with the Nazarenes. They did not believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ. They believe he was a mortal messianic prophet. They also referred James as the head of the church in Jerusalem, and rejected Paul of Tarsus, primarily because Paul was a Roman Citizen. The earliest writings we have that have survived though put the Ebionites about 50 years after the creation of the Catholic church.

Druids of themselves were not Christians. They followed the Celt gods, and were wiped out by the Holy Roman Empire. However their writings did survive and some of their traditions in works not destroyed by the Holy Roman Empire. This gave rise to the Neo Druids or modern druids. Neodruids worship Celt, Norse, Anglo-Saxon and even Christian gods this however should not be confused as a branch of Christianity itself.