Identify Theft!

[CindyLou]

I just spent the better part of my day trying to straighten out quite a mess. I was awaken this morning by a phone call from a payment verification company wanting to verify the "transaction" I had just made online with my wamu credit card for $398.98.

Well, my husband and I are both right there so neither of use has been sleep shopping.

Apparantly some guy had placed an order for Microsoft Certification Review Materials. He used my credit card number, my address, my phone number, and HIS email address. They cancelled the order and I called and reported my card stolen.

Funny thing is, my card is in my possession and has always been. I don't even use this card and the last transaction was in January...charged a Hotel Room at the Hilton on New Years Eve. Paid if off a week later and haven't used it since.

Well, then this guy from the third party certification calls back and says, "you wont believe this". This guy calls and says, "why aren't you allowing my order?" So they tell them they need to speak to me. So he puts this female on the phone and she proceeds to give them ALL of my personal info. Birthday, last 4 of social, mother's maiden name, address, telephone, etc.

The guy said he tried to play it cool and say thank you Ms. XXX I am going to need to get your home address and landline phone number and we will release this order for download. (he said they were calling from a prepaid cell phone). Well then of course they hung up.

So now I have their email address, and the guy was able to give me their IP address. So I will go this afternoon and file a police report.

I know I need to put a fraud alert on my credit reports, but I dread even the thought of it. It is such a nightmare to do anything once an alert is on there.

I checked on Truecredit and no inquiries have been made.

I am so mad right now and just wonder how in the heck they would get my info....even the 3 digit number off the back. I wonder if they have any other of my credit info. I am trying to decide between cancelling everything or just doing the fraud alert or both???

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Cindylynn, you are probably one of the most capable people here, so I have no doubt you'll figure out the best course of action for yourself.

But I do have one piece of advice you probably haven't heard: never use your real mother's maiden name as the password on your financial accounts. It's actually *just* a password, but back in the eighties the banks got tired of not being able to quickly verify security because grandma lost her password, so they settled on something few people know yet you would be very unlikely to forget: mother's maiden name.

But that was before the internet, and unfortunately, mother's maiden name is easily obtainable as all you need is a birth certificate, or her death certificate, etc. But it is STILL just a password. A friend of mine who worked in a credit card fraud center in the early 90s told me upfront to pick something else as mother's maiden name, and I've never regretted her advice. (Never forgot the password, either. )

So in addition to anything and everything else you do, change that.

Also consider a credit *freeze* as opposed to a fraud alert. You should be eligible for freebies since you have recently had a fraudulent event occur with your credit.

I'm not sure how they got the 3-digit security code off the card, but back in the day credit card PINs were actually not random: they were calculated from the credit card number itself by some complex algorithm that someone else immediately figured out. Maybe they get that number the same way, or maybe the guy at the Hilton wrote it down when he stole your card number: a hotel would have your home address, phone, etc.

In any case, you have my sympathy. That's hateful to wake up to one bright morning. Good luck!!!

[WhatMoney]

Interesting how they stole maiden name and 3 digit security code from the card. Have you ever used this card to either purchase or confirm something on the internet? For example, PayPal wants this information when adding a debit/credit card to your account for "address verification" purposes. Sign up for any online accounts, etc?

Do you keep your computer updated with the MS security updates that come out at least once a month? It almost sounds like you could have either been phished or you have a keystroke trojan on your computer that sends keystrokes to the thieves. MS software has more security holes than a 1000 lb block of swiss cheese.

It could be you used the card at a restaurant and the waiter/thief copied your info when they took your card back to swipe it. But getting your SSN and mother's maiden name needed more snooping than that. Was this info ever put on an application, mailed or in person? There are inside thieves just about everywhere that steal and sell/use such critical data.

This makes cash and travelers checks more attractive every day.

[CindyLou]

thanks Daisy,

I'm betting it was obtained somehow through the CC co. itself. Otherwise I'm not sure how the person would have all that info. I thought of the Hilton...but then what about the maiden name?

You know what? Now that I am thinking about it. We were in the middle of our loan app. and making an offer on a house on New Year's Eve. The fax in the business center was broken so the front desk faxed my stuff over to the loan officer for me in the back!!! It was a loan application!!!!! Perfect combo. My credit card, and a copy of a loan app with all my personal info.
Hmmm....doen't that sound awfully suspicious???

Who knows. I'll give the police all the info, but I would guess they have better things to do but to investigate this. I just want the report in case anything further happens.

[PaKettle]

thanks Daisy,

I'm betting it was obtained somehow through the CC co. itself. Otherwise I'm not sure how the person would have all that info. I thought of the Hilton...but then what about the maiden name?

You know what? Now that I am thinking about it. We were in the middle of our loan app. and making an offer on a house on New Year's Eve. The fax in the business center was broken so the front desk faxed my stuff over to the loan officer for me in the back!!! It was a loan application!!!!! Perfect combo. My credit card, and a copy of a loan app with all my personal info.
Hmmm....doen't that sound awfully suspicious???

Who knows. I'll give the police all the info, but I would guess they have better things to do but to investigate this. I just want the report in case anything further happens.

Cindy, that is a real hassle, but good you have a lead on who did it. I am sure there is stuff on the net about how to proceed in these situations. But yeah, it's a BIG hassle.... I haven't even checked my credit report yet but ....

If you think is your's is hard to figure, try explaining this! :

I found out yesterday that someone had made three ATM CASH withdrawals from my debit card.

Now, here are the facts:

The Debit card has been in MY possession the entire time and I do not have another one, just one, and it has always been in my possession.

They made the withdrawals from a bank in a part of town I have not been in for a year or so.

So, somehow they not only were able to apparently make a COPY of my card, but ALSO were able to determine the PIN # I use!

The pin # I use is one the bank assigned to me, not one I made up and I have never given it to ANYone, my wife does'nt even know it because she does not use this card, she has her own account.

So: I am completely puzzled:
How does someone not only make a copy of a card but also get the PIN #????? How is this even POSSIBLE?

This also is beginning to sound like an inside job to me, like someone within my bank did it...

[CindyLou]

Cindy, that is a real hassle, but good you have a lead on who did it. I am sure there is stuff on the net about how to proceed in these situations. But yeah, it's a BIG hassle.... I haven't even checked my credit report yet but ....

If you think is your's is hard to figure, try explaining this! :

I found out yesterday that someone had made three ATM CASH withdrawals from my debit card.

Now, here are the facts:

The Debit card has been in MY possession the entire time and I do not have another one, just one, and it has always been in my possession.

They made the withdrawals from a bank in a part of town I have not been in for a year or so.

So, somehow they not only were able to apparently make a COPY of my card, but ALSO were able to determine the PIN # I use!

The pin # I use is one the bank assigned to me, not one I made up and I have never given it to ANYone, my wife does'nt even know it because she does not use this card, she has her own account.

So: I am completely puzzled:
How does someone not only make a copy of a card but also get the PIN #????? How is this even POSSIBLE?

This also is beginning to sound like an inside job to me, like someone within my bank did it...

Ooohh...Ive heard of this scam before!!! Do you ever get cash from a freestanding cash machine? like the one in convenience stores? What they do is put a tiny camera pointed to the keyboard to get your PIN when you enter it. Then when you swipe your card the reader has a gadget on it that makes a copy of the strip. They take that info and make a fake card....I've heard they don't even look real...only functional enought to use at an ATM.

You should ask the bank if you can come in and look at their cameras and see if you recognize the person.

My downstairs neighbor a few years back had some cash withdrawals from his acct....the bank let him see the person who withdrew the money. Funny thing is....oh, and did he recognize the person!!! Heheheheh it was actually him. He had tied one on the weekend before and didn't remember a thing.....hehehehe. Talk about embarassing for him. Point is though....they let him look at the tapes.

Reason I say look at them is because even though you may not think the card was out of your possession, you never know. I had a card taken from my purse at work one day years ago and the girls went shoppping and returned my card before I left work. I found out who it was cuz they paid their phone bill too!!!!

People have nerve!!!

[FLBK7]

Cindy, that is a real hassle, but good you have a lead on who did it. I am sure there is stuff on the net about how to proceed in these situations. But yeah, it's a BIG hassle.... I haven't even checked my credit report yet but ....

If you think is your's is hard to figure, try explaining this! :

I found out yesterday that someone had made three ATM CASH withdrawals from my debit card.

Now, here are the facts:

The Debit card has been in MY possession the entire time and I do not have another one, just one, and it has always been in my possession.

They made the withdrawals from a bank in a part of town I have not been in for a year or so.

So, somehow they not only were able to apparently make a COPY of my card, but ALSO were able to determine the PIN # I use!

The pin # I use is one the bank assigned to me, not one I made up and I have never given it to ANYone, my wife does'nt even know it because she does not use this card, she has her own account.

So: I am completely puzzled:
How does someone not only make a copy of a card but also get the PIN #????? How is this even POSSIBLE?

This also is beginning to sound like an inside job to me, like someone within my bank did it...

The same thing happened to me once. Someone apparently created an identical copy of my debit/credit card from my CU and went on a wild Saturday shopping spree in a neighborhood I HAD visited about two weeks previously. The card was used as credit, so no PIN was needed. However, if all cashiers did their job correctly, they would have asked for an ID before completing the transactions, as retailers are advised to do. In my case, neither the cashier at a Shell gas station ($75.00 purchase), or the cashier at TWO local supermarkets ($585) and the one at a local Best Buy (about $450) asked for an ID!!!

Anyway, since this was my CU debit card, the funds were immediately taken from my checking account. When the checking account was emptied, my CU started covering the overdrafts with my savings. However, an alert CU employee realized that I had never, ever been overdrawn in my 30+ years there, so he became suspicious and froze the accounts. When I returned home on Sunday night I got the message and immediately contacted my CU on Monday. It was a major hassle for about 10 days, but eventually everything was straightened out and I got all my money back, as well as a new debit/credit card. The fraud investigators narrowed the theft down to a Pizza Hut where I had paid for take-home pizza with that same card.

Since that nasty experience, I've developed an OBSESSION with my accounts and my credit, and check ALL my accounts online each and every day. And then I check my credit report twice a year. Once with the free annual credit report, and then 6 months later with the myfico.com ones. It's well worth the cost for my peace of mind.

[PaKettle]

Ooohh...Ive heard of this scam before!!! Do you ever get cash from a freestanding cash machine? like the one in convenience stores? What they do is put a tiny camera pointed to the keyboard to get your PIN when you enter it. Then when you swipe your card the reader has a gadget on it that makes a copy of the strip. They take that info and make a fake card....I've heard they don't even look real...only functional enought to use at an ATM.

You should ask the bank if you can come in and look at their cameras and see if you recognize the person.

My downstairs neighbor a few years back had some cash withdrawals from his acct....the bank let him see the person who withdrew the money. Funny thing is....oh, and did he recognize the person!!! Heheheheh it was actually him. He had tied one on the weekend before and didn't remember a thing.....hehehehe. Talk about embarassing for him. Point is though....they let him look at the tapes.

Reason I say look at them is because even though you may not think the card was out of your possession, you never know. I had a card taken from my purse at work one day years ago and the girls went shoppping and returned my card before I left work. I found out who it was cuz they paid their phone bill too!!!!

People have nerve!!!

I've been so busy since this went down yesterday - I had to print forms from the bank then fill them out in triplicate and fax them back to them... call them to make sure they got the faxes (I am always getting fax recipients saying "Oh, really? I never got that fax"...)...

Anyway, the point is, I'm going to look at my transactions leading up to the theft and see if I can pinpoint any that may have been at smaller stores or somewhere where such a video cam scam may have been set up...

Thanks for the info!

And I can assure you I wasn't drunk and forgot that I made the transactions... 3 days in a row! ;-)

[FLBK7]

thanks Daisy,

I'm betting it was obtained somehow through the CC co. itself. Otherwise I'm not sure how the person would have all that info. I thought of the Hilton...but then what about the maiden name?

You know what? Now that I am thinking about it. We were in the middle of our loan app. and making an offer on a house on New Year's Eve. The fax in the business center was broken so the front desk faxed my stuff over to the loan officer for me in the back!!! It was a loan application!!!!! Perfect combo. My credit card, and a copy of a loan app with all my personal info.
Hmmm....doen't that sound awfully suspicious???

Who knows. I'll give the police all the info, but I would guess they have better things to do but to investigate this. I just want the report in case anything further happens.

I am so sorry this happened to you. It's definitely a major hassle and a very stressful experience. And yes, you do need to file a police report, if only to have a record of it in case it becomes an issue.

The Lifetime channel is sort of corny, but I watch it sometimes when they show a movie based on real-life stories. I recently saw one named "Identity Theft: The Michelle Brown Story" ---- and it's based on an actual, real case which began with a loan application!!!!!

Good luck to you. You'll get through this if you are diligent and watchful. I think that filing the police report is a priority. Documentation of these incidents is an absolute MUST.

[Flamingo]

To PaKettle & Cyndylynn...it appears you both were victims of skimmers; devices that are attached to either a freestanding ATM machine at a convenience store or a device that is attached to the credit card machine at any store. We have Rite-Aid drugs stores in our region (not sure if they are a National chain). A rash of charges and account withdrawals (including ATM withdrawals) started occurring in this region and after an investigation (it was only occuring with one bank), they found a device hooked up to the machine right on the Rite-Aid counter where you swipe your card. The thieves made cards with the information obtained and by the time folks realized money was missing or items charged, they had a hey day.

The way to avoid being a victim of anything like that is to check your bank account daily online and your credit card accounts periodically online to watch for any unusual activity. Most of this stuff is an inside job where either the thief works at the establishment or has friends/relatives that work there where they can set up the equipment.

I feel for both of you - I know it makes you feel violated and frustrated. There are probably other victims and a pattern will probably emerge so keep in touch with your bank/creditors to see what they come up with.

[lrprn]

There's one other thing you can do when you use your debit card at an ATM or in a store's swipe machine - cover the keyboard completely with your body and arms to block a snoop camera when you punch in your PIN. I've had register people give me the strangest looks, but I do it without fail no matter where I am - even my bank's drive through ATM! Better to look weird than deal with the problems Cindy and others here have had to deal with after the fact.

Sorry to hear about your troubles and sure hope everything gets straightened out soon, Cindy.

[CindyLou]

lrprn...yes I always try and hide my pin input when using ATM and I try to NEVER use debit...I try to always use credit to prevent anyone from seeing my pin.

But in this case this was a actual credit card that had never been used at an ATM and I don't even had a PIN. And only the numbers were used online. So, I really think this had something to do with my stay at the Hilton and faxing the mortgage application at the front desk...just my gut.

I do however think that Pakettle's case soiund like a skimming case.

It's all very scary. But its funny cuz I'm much less stressed this week than last week....so it was ok I guess. I just stayed home from work today after getting the call. I really wanted to stay home anyway and had already kinda talked to my boss about it.

So, I guess all's well that ends well...and so far so good. I'll keep my fingers crossed. The police won't take a report til I get a letter from my credit card company saying the card was attempted to be used.

Pakettle, keep us posted...and you might want to lay off those late night drunken ATM runs... hehehe......you know I like to pick on ya! I hope it all turns out ok with you too.

[JRScott]

I hope you both get this straightened out.

[PaKettle]

To PaKettle & Cyndylynn...it appears you both were victims of skimmers; devices that are attached to either a freestanding ATM machine at a convenience store or a device that is attached to the credit card machine at any store. We have Rite-Aid drugs stores in our region (not sure if they are a National chain). A rash of charges and account withdrawals (including ATM withdrawals) started occurring in this region and after an investigation (it was only occuring with one bank), they found a device hooked up to the machine right on the Rite-Aid counter where you swipe your card. The thieves made cards with the information obtained and by the time folks realized money was missing or items charged, they had a hey day.

The way to avoid being a victim of anything like that is to check your bank account daily online and your credit card accounts periodically online to watch for any unusual activity. Most of this stuff is an inside job where either the thief works at the establishment or has friends/relatives that work there where they can set up the equipment.

I feel for both of you - I know it makes you feel violated and frustrated. There are probably other victims and a pattern will probably emerge so keep in touch with your bank/creditors to see what they come up with.

Can you tell me more about these "skimmer" machines? Can they be easily installed in a place where one might only have access to the machine for a short time without anyone coming in the room? or do they require someone to take apart the machine, etc...?

I am thinking that this skimming probably took place at my place of employment which is ironic because it's a fairly high security place! That is, a gated guard-shack entrance, electronic badges, check-in at desk, etc...

Yet there is an ATM machine in the lunch room and as far as I can tell, NO camera in there (as they have in the hallways etc.).

So I am curious as to how I might detect this "skimmer" thing? Can they just put it on an existing machine? Where is it located on the machine? Could I see it? If someone can just place a small undetectable device on an existing machine then in that case I think I should notify my employer that there is a pretty good chance someone did so in the lunch room where this ATM is located.

I am thinking it happened there because this was the only ATM machine I used that was not at a major bank (with cameras all around) AND it was the machine I used one day before the theft from my account. AND I never use this machine - have only ever used it once before - many months ago.

So if I have good reason to believe there is a way someone could have gone in there and placed a small hard-to-detect device on the machine with no one noticing, then I will tell the Security at my employer's building.

There are only 3 other transactions I made at places that were "mom and pop" type stores: 2 were gas stations and I'm pretty sure I did NOT give my pin # there, only my zip code. And the other was a small local fast food place, but again I THINK I was not required to give my pin # there. I may eat there Monday and start to use my atm card there just to see if they require a pin #, I can't remember. So that kind of narrows it down to the place I KNOW I used my pin#, at my employer's ATM machine in the lunch room.

[CindyLou]

You should find out who actually owns the machine!! And this story is just one more reason they need to let you see who actaully withdrew the money. Did they withdraw the money from banks or from more of these types of machines? Of couse the bank would be the only one with tapes probably. I think you might be surprised to find out that the machine at your place of employement might be owned or "managed" by the same person/company as the machines at which your money was taken!!!!!!!! In that case they would only need to rig some type of electronic device that mimiks the sequence of the electronic strip...they wouldn't even need a fake card!!

You could also ask around at work. But for sure make a police report. This sounds very very fishy. I think you are totally correct on this one.

here is a link about skimming:

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/atm/20021004a.asp

in your case with one of these indedendetly owned machines......they can alter the machine itslef. Hopefully when you call the police the can investigage.