So what do you think the answer is?

[JollyGG]

So in another thread that got derailed there was talk about our health care system. We all know that it has serious problems. We all also know that there are lots of options out there, many based on other countries plans. All the options have their advantages and disadvantages. What do you think is the best option? If you voted for a reason what do you see as the pros and cons? Why do you think that is the best option or options?

Require that everyone have isurance and place programs in place to help those who don't have it or can't afford it get insurance?

Have tighter regulations in place to control insurance companies and hospital costs and reimbursments?

Have socialized medicine where the government owns the hospitals and clinics and employs physicians?

A single payer system, or medicare for all? Where hospitals and doctors function the same way but the only insurer they have to deal with is the government?

A system where individuals negotiate and pay directly and then are reimbursed for their expenses through their insurer?

No changes are needed?

A combination of the above changes?

[JollyGG]

I personally like the medicare for all idea. We already have a system in place that for the most part works. I see no need to reinvent the wheel. Medicare does have problems, alot of which come from who is covered and being and funding. Well if everyone is covered on problem is eliminated. If everyone is covered and the money we already spend for social welfare healtcare, existing medicare spending, employer contributed premiums, individual paid premiums would insure a very well funded program.
I think a single payer system would streamline some of the confusion about who is covered, what is covered, who to bill and when? With less administrative cost, cost should decrease. With fewer unisured and underinsured, costs should decrease.
While, most important to me, the decisions about primary care needs are left in the hands of doctors and patients. Also while still encouraging inovation in treatment and medication (ie. research). And encouraging compition based on quality of care not affordability of costs.

I though this site had some great information about the advantages of a single payer system. http://www.pnhp.org/

[Bobby'sGirl]

Political Realities

The insurance lobby is soooo entrenched and big money is invested in the status quo, including the doctors and AMA even...if everyone is required to have insurance, whether union or employer provided and for others it is on "sliding scale" cost by income then might actually be able to get through Congress. At lower ends (no income) a system such as Medicare could kick in.

I teach part time and am self employed. I have had no insurance since my husband died years back and have a few more years before Medicare but live a healthy lifestyle and am fortunate to have good genes, I guess.

[JollyGG]

Opps. Found a typo in the poll. Instead of "hospital run clinics and hospitals" it should say "Government run hopsitals and clinics". Sorry. I'd fix it but I can't figure out how to edit a poll.

[Bandit]

LOL! Jolly

My answer is not going to change...When the Doctors stop ripping off the patients & insurance companies & the insurance companies can start to charge premiums that are affordable for everyone. If the wealthy don't like that, too bad.

Medicare is not working, for one reason the Doctors don't want that because they can't scam it.

Just my tiny and humble observations.

[Bandit]

...if everyone is required to have insurance, whether union or employer provided and for others it is on "sliding scale" cost by income then might actually be able to get through Congress.

I have also wondered if that would work, something like a sliding scale because as it is now, it looks like the ones who cannot afford any health care do not deserve it & do not deserve to live. This is not a poverty nation like some places in Africa.

[Bandit]

Jolly, I will go back over the options you have and try to do each one from my honest opinion as they are good options on the surface. I just don't know for sure how each approach would work.

So I will take the poll after I think on them some more.
It is another good discussion starter and definately a hot issue from the top to the bottom.

[PaKettle]

Opps. Found a typo in the poll. Instead of "hospital run clinics and hospitals" it should say "Government run hopsitals and clinics". Sorry. I'd fix it but I can't figure out how to edit a poll.

How about a hospital run government?
Might be better... Couldn't be worse...

[One Half Full]

I already have 2-300 per month taken out of my paycheck for crappy insurance, why cant I give the government that same money for insurance that has a larger number of users (all citizens) and therefor more money in the pot. I'll just bet I will get better medical care at a lower cost. I am for universal health care. I don't know how they would do it, but seeing many countries have it, There are plenty of examples out there.

[erinb1975]

As someone who works with medicare/medicaid patients as well as VA patients every day, I feel very strongly that the LAST thing we need is a government maintained health plan for all. The hoops that need to be jumped through are ridiculous, as well as the fact that it does indeed comprimise patient care to a varying degree. The VA patients I have cannot get certain medications (they can only get ones that are dirt cheap, or that the government has got a good deal on). They have to settle for substandard medications, or pay out of pocket for the ones that actually work.

Same goes for medicare/medicaid. I recently tried to get a medication approved for a patient that boosts their red blood cell production. The patient had been on this medication while a patient in the hosptial for several weeks, and now had a normal blood count (the desired effect). When I called to get it approved through MCD, they denied it because the patient HAD a normal blood count at that time (DUH, because they were on the medication!!!)

Do we really want the same people who screwed up social security managing our health care?? I am not sure what the answer is, however it is NOT government health care.

[One Half Full]

The VA patients I have cannot get certain medications (they can only get ones that are dirt cheap, or that the government has got a good deal on). They have to settle for substandard medications, or pay out of pocket for the ones that actually work.

If one entity (Government) ran health care and everyone had it, drug companies would not make any money if they only allowed certain patients certain medications. The reason the VA patients can only get the lower quality generics is that the Government has a lowest bidder policy. (If I want the better stuff, I have to pay out of my own pocket too. If it is not on the list, I pay for it). The Government intentionally buys the cheap substandard stuff. It did not appear magically in a cabinet overnight. The same goes for care: The government dictated the amount and type of care. If everyone had universal medical insurance, if all hospitals including VA were set to the same standards, if Hospitals could not charge twenty dollars for an aspirin, then maybe we would all get decent care.

If people cant afford health care, then even slightly worse health care is better than no health care.

[Bandit]

If everyone had universal medical insurance, if all hospitals including VA were set to the same standards, if Hospitals could not charge twenty dollars for an aspirin, then maybe we would all get decent care.

It is so beyond out of control.

I remember in ER a few years ago. They gave me two Tylenol at $8.00 each. Two hours later I owed $1,500 dollars for them doing absolutely nothing. That stupid Dr. in ER tells me 'Whatever it is, I feel it will pass." ROFL!
Then I had to go the next day on my own to a clinic to find out what was wrong and it was my liver had quit working and I was actually dying. This is going back over 5 years ago & all is good today.

I told them in ER not to give me that because I have some Tylenol at home for $.08 cents each. But they know they can charge it to insurance, then insurance charges us in the premiums.

[erinb1975]

One, I understand what you are saying, however it does not change the fact that the amount of "red tape" that goes along with anything in the government will debilitate the health care industry. Even in countries with socialized medicine patients have to wait months and sometimes years for "elective" procedures. I was a member of a message board for hysterectomy support (I had mine at 29 after years of health issues, so I am just as well versed on "Patient" issues as I am "nurse" issues) and there were european (mostly Engilsh) women that were made to wait for that procedure usually a minimum of 3-9 months - even though they were suffering great pain and/or dangerous bleeding. I currently work in the transplant field, and even for such a complex procedure, we can usually get people worked up and on the list within a couple of weeks to a month once they are referred.

Our system in this country is far from perfect, and although I work at a State University hospital, which is non-profit, I am acutely aware of "for profit" hospitals which overcharge. A better solution in my eyes is subsidies for health insurance, and greater regulations on the insurance industry (which is where the real devil lies). Trust me. While doctors are not destititute by any means they also are paying half their salary in some cases in malpractice insurance due to the litigious nature of our society.

[JollyGG]

I though this site had some great information about the advantages of a single payer system. http://www.pnhp.org/

I came back to this post to add a resource I thought explained the advantages of single payer well.

I posted this thread in the hopes of learning a little more about this issue as well as seeing what people thing. So if you know of a good, reliable reference supporting one idea or another post it. As I said I right now am a fan of the single payer system, but I am by no means completely convinced. So I guess I want to know a little more about what others see as the pros and cons of various options and see if anyone sees other options out there than the ones I have outlined.

[Bandit]

Single pay is not a bad start providing the insurance knocks off their garabage about not wanting to pay unless they decide to pay. The whole thing about insurance is that not everyone will use it or some will only use a small portion. You cannot have someone paying high premiums plus expect huge deductibles and out of pocket payments. People cannot do that & if many did not get it through an employer they would not have insurance at all.

in such a way automobile insurance has been made a law, one person may only have one accident while the guy who insists on being wreckless will have 4 accidents.

Anyone in their right mind knows how foolish it is to not have auto insurance should also know how important health insurance is. Maybe the only way is to make it a law to have it? Where everyone is participating?
I don't know.

I don't know what the answer is. Maybe the government (who we already cannot trust either) could regulate certain things like the prices of XRays for starter....I never could figure out exactly why Xrays are so expensive the first time around & then after a couple the rest are free. I mean, if they put you into an Xray machine in one place, when you go back the next time for the same condition there is no charge for Xray. OR- the first one is $50 & the rest are $5?

What about blood work? How is possible that one place wants $800 dollars checking ONLY CERTAIN blood TESTS and then you go the low class clinic and they charge you 90.00 to check everything from A to Z. MAKES NO SENSE