Would you be upset if your husband did this?

[EZDUZIT449]

Minnymouth you need to go back and read all the posts,,dec2nd, she talks about everything,,from his verbal abuse,,doing all chores,,his manipultaion,,,and threats. He is a typical abuser,,which is deadly with alcohol, benzodizipne abuse.

[EZDUZIT449]

Another point minnymouth makes

"Alanon can help her cope, if she plans on staying in this marriage. "

Alanon will give her the tools to leave him if need be. A woman in a abusive relationship needs this support to come out of denial about the reality of the situation.

This is a serious situation, not open to negotiations at this point, untill she gathers a plan for herself and her children and removes her self from the abuse. Is she gonna wait untill the next time she has to be at work and leaves her child with an intoxiacted parent, or will she miss work and loose her job. She is setting herself up for a disaster.

She has written since to describe his behavior on lack of negotiation, communication, and plain emotional, mental, verbal abuse.

It is not acceptable behavior for more than one day from her or the husband in regaurds to the children. She can be a martyr is she wants, but leave the children out of it.

[Bandit]

Like I said before, that is an awful lot for one person to try and change.

because they do not change.
My first wife, now over 20 years later is STILL drinking her fool head off, calling my parents & relatives all wasted trying to get them to give her my current address & phone number.
In my second marriage, my first wife would come over all drunk & try to split us apart doing stupid stuff like knocking on the door & asking for a light for her smoke. Not to mention she has had 3 DUI, smashed & totalled 3 vehicles & ruined someone elses life by causing serious injury to another driver when she had no business behind the wheel. Then I find out she was in prison for defrauding federal taxes.
Because she is a selfish drunk & all she can think about is her own selfish drunkedness.

Now my little brother has one who wont even get into the car to go around the block without a beer can in her hand. Then she beats on him, kicks & scratches calling the children bastard & *****es because my brother wont take her to get a weekend supply of cocaine. I have seen it in action.

He calls me all the time about it & I don't care to hear about it any more because he is the only one who put it behind him & throw her out.

[Bandit]

Their behavior can vary:
Some bother no one, quiet, drink, sleep it off

The 'quiet' ones who lay in bed with a bottle in their hands all passed out. I know one who has caused just as many deadly 'quiet' problems sleeping & drinking for weeks (sleep drink, sleep drink), as the loud obnoxious drunks, like burning the apartment down...
Funny how some think they are causing no one any problems then have the nerve to tell everyone around them how stupid we all are & how much smarter & better they are than everyone else who is sober.

[Minnymouth]

Bandit, some of the worse alcoholics are women........ and most never change or seek help. They would sell their soul to get that bottle if need be.

Many women drink and drive also...... a bad combination. A woman here in Ky recently picked 4 kids up after school including her own. When she wrecked, she killed her best friend, her friends daughter and her own son. Now she has to live with it mentally and in prison too. So many lives destroyed.

I had an alcoholic roommate (woman - 48) that worked everyday, got drunk every nite, but she saw no harm in it..............

I had to stay awake at nite till she passed out to keep her from burning the house down. When she went back to her man, I never let her come back to my home again. You can only help people so much, then its a waste.

What a waste of a human life.......

[EZDUZIT449]

Divorice Ruined ME ,,,,I commend you for your honesty in what is really going in your household. Very few people on these threads mention drugs and alcohol as the primary problems with bankruptcy. This statement below suggests that it is more of a factor in an avert way than people will admit to, like divorice, mental health problems, loss of jobs, ect ect with the primary factor being addiction. Along with addiction comes almost the all of the traits and problems listed below.

God Bless You

The "Poor Money Management" and "Other" categories cover problems that were caused by immaturity, irresponsibility, compulsive spending, gambling, drugs and alcohol. They amounted to roughly half of those receiving counseling services. For the other half, their financial problems may have been largely beyond their control. Of course, unemployment, divorce, or medical problems may mask some undesirable behavior that contributed to or caused that problem. Therefore, the actual percentage of those whose financial problems were caused predominantly by factors beyond their control may be considerably less than 50%.

[Bandit]

It has been a good venting session for people, so please let me vent some more. You all can tell me to shut up any time & I will.

I have no problems with drugs and alcohol & people can use and party as much as they want as often as they want with whatever substance they want even the illegal ones... However, when they cross the line and place someone elses life in danger of their own selfish pleasure, high & drunkedness, then I have something to say & wont hesitate to call the law.

When I was single I did my share of partying & stayed responsible while never putting innocent people in danger of my own pleasure. There is nothing I have not tried so I do know first hand what the different beverages & substances can do to people.
When I was married, I grew up & I always went home to my wife & left the selfish party life behind & yes I could be very selfish at times but not after I entered a serious relationship.

Today I may have a glass of wine with dinner on the weekends or a nightcap of grand marnier and I really do enjoy it but not to get drunk & wasted on. But I have NEVER allowed myself to get to the point where others around me do not matter over my own binges & selfishness because it is not right.
I don't need a buzz to drop/knock the plugged in hairdryer into the bathtub by mistake, if you know what I mean.

There ya have it in a nutshell because I can point the finger at myself & know when enough is enough.

[EZDUZIT449]

Bandit that is why these people you refer to are called alcoholics and you are not.

An alcoholic has no defense against that first drink and once they do drink they have no defense on how much they drink. They are sick people who need help, not bad people who need to be good.

They are usualy emotionaly, financialy and spiritualy bankrupt.

A very serious sad state of affairs and a deadly disease. Only one out of 10 get sober, the majority of the rest end up in jail, death or institutions eventualy.

It is a national phenominum.

[Bandit]

You can only help people so much, then its a waste.
....

They are sad stories and sad because it happens every day all day long. You can't help them because they have to help themselves. You can't even talk to them about it because all their marbles are not there & they will kill someone if you get in their way to try & stop them not mention an accidental death along the way.

I used to be just the opposite with drug addicts & alcohol abusers & always felt sorry for them, the person who was causing the problem in the relationship over addiction. I hated MADD because I felt like no one was doing any harm.

Then after being around it & studying it a little closer, I realized how selfish addicts are, that they can only think about their high & not the problems they are causing everyone else, and it made me realize how thankful I am now that the law sets limits & offers gadgets on the vehicles today for those who abuse things & will indeed revoke driving privileges permanently. But that still does not stop them as only the person doing it can stop it.

[chpxiii]

Ezduzit, recall in The Big Book that only the alcoholic can diagnose themself. ;)

[Bandit]

Bandit that is why these people you refer to are called alcoholics and you are not.

An alcoholic has no defense against that first drink and once they do drink they have no defense on how much they drink. They are sick people who need help, not bad people who need to be good.

They are usualy emotionaly, financialy and spiritualy bankrupt.

A very serious sad state of affairs and a deadly disease. Only one out of 10 get sober, the majority of the rest end up in jail, death or institutions eventualy.

It is a national phenominum.

I know there is real addiction property involved & that can't be denied. I still don't understand how it got so out of hand & sometimes I wonder if our government allowed it on purpose because you can look at other countries that do not have near the problems with addiction as the U.S.

but there is also a selfishness involved when it comes to relationships, friends & family because they are ENJOYING every drop & every second of the buzz while the people around them suffer & they don't give a hoot how many people they hurt along the way. They do not care even when sober who gets hurt.

This is what happens in those scenes because you cannot turn to the law for help as they will get thrown into jail.

It took me many years to finally see that, All they care about is ME ME ME & my bottle. I also know they are able to stop if they truly wanted to & cared enough about those around them because I have seen it go in a good way at various times, not often but it is possible to stop and make things right.

[EZDUZIT449]

CHPXII,

You are right, I got carried away with making such a comment. I should of used the term, alcohol abuse,,I just hope the point was made, and our young lady can cope with all of this in the midst of bankruptcy and can find some relief.

Thanks

[EZDUZIT449]

Actualy I am done posting,,,,emotionaly draining. I want to go save this young lady, bring her home, cook her a hot meal, and hold her hand in comfort. Four young children is a tough one.

[BKOnce]

Poor girl... so much discussion/posts in here make her so scared by now... She probably has been reading us deeply every minute... crying a river too.... but can't say much to us either...

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Ezduzit, recall in The Big Book that only the alcoholic can diagnose themself. ;)

True enough, but a bystander can take steps to help themselves on the assumption alone: the symptoms are pretty straightforward, and it's only a matter of being honest about what one is seeing in the person one loves. It's not easy to admit that that's what's going on, especially when this person you love and want to believe is promising to change and declaring that all these things are a) temporary setbacks, b) other people's fault, c) bad luck / no breaks, d) your lack of compassion and understanding, e) anything but his/her behavior and consumtion of alcohol. While he/she is drinking, his/her main goal is to KEEP drinking, and to keep his/her enablers in place. This is a hallmark of alcoholism, and all addiction: that's why it's an addiction.

It will be a cold day in hell before an un-self-diagnosed alcoholic up and *seriously* says, "I'm an alcoholic!" PRIOR to hitting rock bottom. And even then, some hit rock bottom and start to dig. That's because as long as they can drink without repercussion, their drinking really isn't a problem. The wife can leave, the kids can bleed, the house can foreclose around their ears, but their drinking isn't a problem.

When they wake up sober in jail or in the hospital (or in the next life, for that matter), or they are evicted and homeless, or they can't get the next drink/fix/what-have-you, THEN it's a problem for the alcoholic, not before.

And... generally it's not like the "diagnosis" is unmerited, either: when there is binge drinking, and inability or unwillingness to curtail or stop it, when the safety of children is compromised, when one is putting one's entire energies into being able to keep on doing what one is doing, I don't think it is unkind or unfair or a lack of compassion and understanding to label that "alcoholism" and use that to go get some help. (Why go to Al-Anon if you're not involved with an alcoholic, for example?)

I don't mean to take off on you, and I hope you don't take it that way. What you said about the Big Book is correct. But the Big Book was written for those interested in making a change, not for those wishing to maintain their state of denial. So if a bystander or loved one needs to make that diagnosis of alcoholism in order to make decisions and take steps to save themselves and their children from the ravages of unchecked addiction, I'm all for it.

It's no good waiting for the alcoholic to come to his senses. As long as things are tolerable for him and he can get the next drink, no admission will be forthcoming without a serious miracle having occurred to intervene.