Would you be upset if your husband did this?

[Minnymouth]

Sad, but some people are "so afraid of being alone" in life they will settle for what they can get, or the circumstances they are already in.

I would much rather be "alone"........and single.......THEN married, alone, and in a bad relationship.

I am one of the most independent, self reliant women you would ever want to meet. Most men are "scared" of women like me.....
I don't rely on them for ANYTHING...... then I'm not disappointed in them. Nor do I support any of them just to have them around..

Don't get me wrong, if my man wasn't mentally or physically able to work to help support the household, then I would come to home plate and do my best to see that he was taken care of. I would hope that it would work vise versa,,, but often it doesn't.

Also, I firmly believe that a women should work right along side of her man thru thick and thin. Many a man has been put into deep debt because of a woman and her shopping spree's. If she likes to spend so much, let her work it out too!!

In our society today, it takes two to make a marriage, two to support a marriage financially (unless your high income earners).

I sit growing up and watched my dad control my mom with no money, she didn't work, physical and mental abuse, and "his freedom" attitude of I'll do what I want too when I want too!!

Fortunately, I am a survivor and a tough one at that. I take "no guff" off any man..... nor have I ever met one that I'm afraid. No man in his "right mind" would get up in my face, and most know it. My mom used to say I could fight with the Devil hisself, and I'd win.

I never will be a man's "punching bag". He better be "right with God" when he draws back on me..... Years ago a guy I dated thought about taking a punch at me, and he said the look in my eye told him he was a dead man if he pursued it. He said "evil" came across my face.....

Some men are big, tough, dudes--- till someone stands up to them.....then they aren't so tough anymore.

Growing up the way I did made me strong, able to take care of myself, and handle anything that life throws at me. I can thank my parents for that...........but growing up our family life SUCKED.

Thankfully, I'm still a sensitve, loving person after you get to know me. I beleive in compromise, listening, and talking things out.

My favorite saying: NOTHING IS FOREVER, AND SOME THINGS IN LIFE ARE ONLY FOR A SHORT TIME!!!

Enjoy life, your only going to go around "one time".... make the most of it!!

[FreshLikeADaisy]

I would much rather be "alone"........and single.......THEN married, alone, and in a bad relationship.

I am one of the most independent, self reliant women you would ever want to meet. Most men are "scared" of women like me.....
I don't rely on them for ANYTHING...... then I'm not disappointed in them. Nor do I support any of them just to have them around..

So, so true. I'm where you are now. And I also find that weak men tend to be scared of me... but the ones who live with decency and integrity rarely are. Hmm, wonder why that is.

I love the company of men -- probably more than the company of women, to be honest -- but I don't take any crap off of them either. Let's just say I've had my fill. Funny enough, I find that not needing them tends to weed out the manipulators anyway, because if I don't need their help and don't care if they stay or go there's nothing to manipulate, and they look for greener pastures.

I agree with what you wrote 100%. I just love the way you write it.

[Minnymouth]

It's "not needing them" that scares them the most. Men want you to be dependt on them, I'm not. And yes, being the way I am weeds out the manipulators, the gig-a-lo's, etc. And that leaves the nice, decent, down to earth, respectable, intelligent, and loving men for me to spend time with.

We meet under "mutual respect and admiration"..... nothing required of each other, and no strings attached. Makes a better relationship. Relationships based on mutual respect for each other.

Knowing you can "walk away" at any given time is a "gold peice" in a relationship..... you stay because YOU WANT TOO!!!

I have a friend who has been with her man 35 years....... they finally married 3 years ago when he had a heart attack. They are soulmates, companions, friends, lovers, etc..... all in one relationship. Love knows no boundaries!!!

Don't get me wrong again, I do believe in commitment also.....but I don't believe you should stay in an abusive relationship just to honor a commitment.

[Minnymouth]

Women who have children will stay in bad relationships because of the children. Or they are just too weak in spirit or mind to realize they can make it on their own. Nothing is certain in life and if their man died tomorrow they would go on living and survive it. They would find a way.......

It breaks my heart to see woman who has been abused to the point she has lost all self-respect, confidence, and faith in herself. Whether it be verbal or physical abuse. Many stay because of the children...... which is really a grave mistake. children DO NOT FORGET..... and it has a great impact on their future.

[BKOnce]

Oh Man & Woman,

Dependent + Dependent = Diaster,

Independent + Dependent = Abusive, and

Independent + Independent = Always singles (no need 2 marry), just a piece of paper anyway... no assets 2 share...

[rilbrianne]

Oh Man & Woman,

Dependent + Dependent = Disaster,

Independent + Dependent = Abusive, and

Independent + Independent = Always singles (no need 2 marry), just a piece of paper anyway... no assets 2 share...

lol, I've only heard my dad say that "it's only a piece of paper, and he's divorced...maybe that's his view of things now, after a divorce.

Marriage is (unfortunately) not valued as it used to be. Everything seems to have lost value lately. It's a shame. There is no room in a marriage for selfishness. Actually, I think that goes for family.... not just marriage.

[ssdsco]

I want a refund, this wasn't the life I ordered!

Life is what you let it be.

My wife is all over me if I forget to put my dishes in the dishwasher. The fringe benefits are good however.

You sound like a great person, great education and career, good mother. You're letting this nut-job drag you down and waste your life. Do you really want to look back 20 years from now and say "this wasn't the life I ordered". Time to order the life you want.

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Women who have children will stay in bad relationships because of the children. Or they are just too weak in spirit or mind to realize they can make it on their own. Nothing is certain in life and if their man died tomorrow they would go on living and survive it. They would find a way.......

It breaks my heart to see woman who has been abused to the point she has lost all self-respect, confidence, and faith in herself. Whether it be verbal or physical abuse. Many stay because of the children...... which is really a grave mistake. children DO NOT FORGET..... and it has a great impact on their future.

That was my mother. My father was an evil, nasty man who sat around the house drinking beer and terrorizing all of us (mostly emotional, but there was more) and my mother worked and worked and kept everything together. He was unemployed by choice, but basically had every reason in the world why he couldn't do this or wouldn't do that. Earlier on in the marriage, there was some pretense on his part of attempting to work, but later it was just all out in the open: him sitting home on the couch, drinking and being a jerk, 24/7.

She finally divorced him when I was 17 after finding out about his infidelity: that was the last straw for her. I only wish she'd busted him years sooner, because the day they divorced was the day my life started. But I found out many years later she had actually tried to leave earlier, when I was 10 or 12. Had even gotten an apartment and everything, but backed out at the last second. Goggle eyed, I asked her, "Why on earth didn't you? He wasn't helping or supporting you in any way, you were taking care of everything anyhow, you were making all the money, why didn't you leave then?!?" And her simple, sad answer was, "I didn't believe I could." He had her head *that* messed up, after years of those mind games.

Oh, how I wish she had left when she could have! It wasn't just *her* head he messed up. My sister has had substance abuse issues since she was *twelve years old*, and me... well I've had my problems too, though not with that. Mainly with bad relationships. And we are in our forties now. All that bad and nastiness that he sowed in us with his abuse and negativity and constant manipulation has been reaped by both of us hundreds of times over.

Regarding the not-forgetting, that is so true. And the unfortunate part is that the memories are not conscious or open -- that way they could be acknowledged and dealt with. No, it's all in your heart, that place in you that drives you to create situations that re-enact "old business", old situations, trying to win where you've always lost. Yeah, we never forget, and it's a hell of a time *remembering* too, which you have to do in order to heal and make your life different...

[DivorceRuinedMe]

I'm calling a marriage counselor tomorrow and if nothing else, I will go by myself. I know he will come b/c he's said before that he would. I just have to make the first move.

You guys are so wonderful for being so supportive and helpful. I know this isn't a good situation and I'm trying to change it. I am trying so very hard.

[gamom02]

DRM,
My heart does ache for you and the children involved. I have two brothers and a brother inlaw who are alcoholics. My brothers would never admit it but my brother inlaw did when my sister finally had enough one night after her two little girls saw him fall drunk into the doorway and lay in his own vomit.
The next day when he could comprehend what she was saying, she told him to either get help and straighten up or she would pack his bags and send his drunk a** back to his momma and she could clean up after him.
He did get counseling from a pastor who was also a recovered alcoholic. That was 7 years ago and their marriage is stronger than ever and he has not had a drink since. He did work but would not come home until very late each night because he needed to "unwind after work", which I never understood.
Just know that children learn what they see. I know you don't want your kids to think that this behavior is acceptable.
Just know there is hope out there. You just have to do it for yourself and your kids. Good luck and God bless.

[DivorceRuinedMe]

So, I talked with him and he won't go to counseling. I kinda had a feeling that when it came on down to it that he wouldn't go. He had said before that he would but I just knew that he wouldn't.

I was hoping deep down that he would. I'll write more later.

[JollyGG]

[MomIcantFindmy]

That is my life too....I have been married for 20 years to the same man, two kids and a pretty normal life (in my eyes). He is a avid gamer and plays for hours in the evening. I use to argue with him and beg him to get off the computer..........then I said oh well and I joined him playing....its fun and now it is something we do together. We have multipule computers and accounts. He is still more of a gamer than me but I am much more tolerant.

[JollyGG]

That is my life too....I have been married for 20 years to the same man, two kids and a pretty normal life (in my eyes). He is a avid gamer and plays for hours in the evening. I use to argue with him and beg him to get off the computer..........then I said oh well and I joined him playing....its fun and now it is something we do together. We have multipule computers and accounts. He is still more of a gamer than me but I am much more tolerant.

I have lots of other friends who are WOW widows as well. I've considered starting to play. But we need a second computer becasue I want him to make a new ID and play with me. I guess mabey I should bring my work computer home.

[Bandit]

Now these are all generalizations. But the subtle societal pressures send these mixed messages to us. And therefore to a certain degree most men are selfish jerks sometimes. Does that mean you should blindly exempt being treated poorly. NO. But it helps to understand where someone else is coming from so that you can communicate in a language they will understand and that gets your point across successfully.

I am going to try & get my point across & communicate in a language. I see where you are coming from maybe you will see what I am saying too.

I don't see where it has anything to do with being male or female. Men/dads know how to show affections & take care of the children and some of them do it better than women/mothers.
It is about being selfish & drunken & YES almost every drinker or drug abuser I have ever known is selfish selfish selfish - ME & MY HIGH DRUNKENESS - screw everyone else. There are a few who are able to have a drink or two & still manage but when you stay out all night long partying knowing there is a family at home?

They will leave the baby to die on the street just to shove a needle in their arm or snort which is why they end up on the street instead of going to work or working on a relationship as the party is way more fun. Been there & seen it all one too many times.

and do I feel sorry for the people? Not one drop to I feel sorry for those who ENJOY themselves & love their buzz. I feel sorry for the people who get mixed up & suffer from peoples neglect & selfishness because someone elses own personal party is the most important thing in the world.

A 'family' would be home or doing something together on friday nite and saturday mornings not one selfish party sleeping off the selfish buzz while the baby has no one to watch over them & the mother goes to work. That is a big thing & it has already been made known that HE WILL continue to do it & no one is going to change it.
So what exactly is there to work on? I know. The other parent who is concerned, working & sober has to suffer & just deal because someone does not give a hoot if the baby lays in bed screaming & that is what they do.

Nothing personal JollyGG. I just figured I would get a little heated debate going is all, as I really don't care either way, well, you know what I mean.