2008 Presidential Election

[lrprn]

Politics based in fear and whispered rumor can be hard to detect. The people that start and continue to spread these false rumors about BOTH candidates are masters in the manipulation of your emotions. The only way to counter it is to educate *yourself* rather than depending on others to tell you what to think.

Until you do that, you're just more fodder for the spin masters who depend on your gullibility and willingness to continue to spread their lies and half-truths.

Lies repeated often enough have a way of seeming the truth. Remember the "weapons of mass destruction" that now have been proven to have NEVER EXISTED??? How do you think Bush, Cheney, and their insider friends justified invading Iraq? They just kept beating their chests about how Saddam was in with the Al-Queda terrorists who attacked the World Trade Center and that Saddam had the makings of an atomic bomb that could be used against us. All complete lies, but repeated over and over and over again until they seemed true to most Americans and to most of our Congress. And now almost 5,000 Americans and untold thousands of Iraqis are dead and continue to die every day because of those lies because almost no one was brave enough to stand up at the time and say, "Prove it."

Wake up, people. A strong democracy depends on a knowledgeable and informed voting populace. We are in grave danger of losing that. No matter who you vote for, vote for them because you believe in their proven records, not some Internet rumors spread by people who believe that winning is ALL that matters, even if you have to cheat, lie, and steal to achieve it. In a moral society, the end NEVER justifies the means.

[Bandit]

Lies repeated often enough have a way of seeming the truth. Remember the "weapons of mass destruction" that now have been proven to have NEVER EXISTED??? How do you think Bush, Cheney, and their insider friends justified invading Iraq? They just kept beating their chests about how Saddam was in with the Al-Queda terrorists who attacked the World Trade Center and that Saddam had the makings of an atomic bomb that could be used against us. All complete lies, but repeated over and over and over again until they seemed true to most Americans and to most of our Congress. And now almost 5,000 Americans and untold thousands of Iraqis are dead and continue to die every day because of those lies because almost no one was brave enough to stand up at the time and say, "Prove it."

do you have any idea how many people still believe in cheney & gwb? they will stand there & tell you it never happened.

Wake up, people. A strong democracy depends on a knowledgeable and informed voting populace. We are in grave danger of losing that. No matter who you vote for, vote for them because you believe in their proven records, not some Internet rumors spread by people who believe that winning is ALL that matters, even if you have to cheat, lie, and steal to achieve it. In a moral society, the end NEVER justifies the means

if i would have tried to tell you the problems I seen in bush & cheney 6-8 years ago & presented facts about his cabinet, then you would tell me i was listening to rumors. so which is it, lrprn?

I also never believed the crap that came from them & their associates, but everyone around me did.
or you might give the speech on guilt by association...when it has been proven that bush, cheney, & some of the others are guilty by association. & I hope after all this comes to a head they all get arrested & have to do time.

why do you think Powel left? he is the only one who his dignity remained.


as far as i am concerned, until the rumor is proven either true or false, there is a good possibility it is true. the rumors should be cleared up by the polititician & not ignored because ignoring them is exactly how bush & cheney have gotten away with this.
IOW- the rumor of WMD should have been proven before making war, just as any rumor should be proven by the candidate either way prior to voting.

What gets me is there is evidence AND something missing to the whole story & people say it is nothing.

beside the rumors, enough comes out of their lips to hear the double talking lies from them &/or their buddies & relatives, while others see the lie as truth. I am not that desperate or simple to pick someone like oba & mcc just because i think they are the answer to the same old coin or just because half the people say so.

it is not adding up.

strong democracy? & votes? the voting system itself is so corrupt thet they take your votes & give them to whoever they feel like. How many times does that have to happen?
they make & pass laws before you even know the law exists & that is democracy?

last, there are other ways to convince people everything is ok other than the use of fear.

[WhatMoney]

as far as i am concerned, until the rumor is proven either true or false, there is a good possibility it is true. the rumors should be cleared up by the polititician & not ignored because ignoring them is exactly how bush & cheney have gotten away with this.

Guilty until proven innocent, in other words.

You need to make some distinction between dark evil personal attack rumors, which is what this muslim BS is, vs legitimate questions that affect the nation and the world, such as the existence of WMD's to justify attacking Iraq. There is a huge difference. I never believed the WMD story before the war, and none of my friends did either - maybe you should associate with a more informed class of people. Obama didn't buy it either and spoke out against the invasion before it happened, one of the few politicians who did. You should have listened to him.

Seems the muslim story has been responded to by Obama and the press already. What more do you want?
http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck...a_muslim_1.php

Back in the Clinton white house days, the Republicans were spreading all kinds of nasty internet rumors. Did you really believe the one about Hillary have wild lesbian sex parties in the white house, with Bill joining in? That was a rumor - so it must be true until denied by Hillary. I can just see Hillary holding a press conference and saying I am not having wild lesbian sex parties in the white house and Bill is not joining in. Why respond to ugly personal attacks?

Now don't bring up Monica - the little slut. She was set up anyway. lol

[Bandit]

Guilty until proven innocent, in other words.



Now don't bring up Monica - the little slut. She was set up anyway. lol

no that is not what I said at all.

that is how politicians operate but not I. what i said is, until the rumor is proven either way true or false, it is worth investigating to prevent another bush/cheney regime & they will continue to bring it up until it is proven false or true. either way we have a right to know.

i feel clinton should have been impeached, but at the same time I can forgive that maNy moons ago, but i will never forgive or forget this last 8 years.

the clintons are a lot like you. they think the reps set Bill up to fail with monica through conspiracy. or so that is one thing they have said.

[Bandit]

Seems the muslim story has been responded to by Obama and the press already. What more do you want?
http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck...a_muslim_1.php

that is not my main concern. my concern is there is something deeper hiding in the shadows as to connections in the arab world, exactly like cheney & bush, for his own personal gain while screwing the rest of us.
because he is certainly not going to be doing all the junk he says he is going to do like health insurance & getting them all home from iraq in 6 months...

[WhatMoney]

because he is certainly not going to be doing all the junk he says he is going to do like health insurance & getting them all home from iraq in 6 months...

If you are talking about Obama, here is what his web site actually says:

Bringing Our Troops Home
Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.

Quality, Affordable and Portable Coverage for All
Obama's Plan to Cover Uninsured Americans: Obama will make available a new national health plan to all Americans, including the self-employed and small businesses, to buy affordable health coverage that is similar to the plan available to members of Congress. The Obama plan will have the following features:

Guaranteed eligibility. No American will be turned away from any insurance plan because of illness or pre-existing conditions.

Comprehensive benefits. The benefit package will be similar to that offered through Federal Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP), the plan members of Congress have. The plan will cover all essential medical services, including preventive, maternity and mental health care.

Affordable premiums, co-pays and deductibles.

Subsidies. Individuals and families who do not qualify for Medicaid or SCHIP but still need financial assistance will receive an income-related federal subsidy to buy into the new public plan or purchase a private health care plan.

Simplified paperwork and reined in health costs.

Easy enrollment. The new public plan will be simple to enroll in and provide ready access to coverage.

Portability and choice. Participants in the new public plan and the National Health Insurance Exchange (see below) will be able to move from job to job without changing or jeopardizing their health care coverage.

Quality and efficiency. Participating insurance companies in the new public program will be required to report data to ensure that standards for quality, health information technology and administration are being met.

I expect a national health insurance program will finally get passed and into law if a Democrat gets elected. No Bush vetoes and clear majorities in the House and Senate is all that is needed. If Iraq is wound down there would be plenty of tax dollars to pay for a national health insurance program. So the two promises go hand in hand. We will see - promises and plans and all that...

[Bandit]

I dont believe a word of it until it happens. His plan does not offer coverage to all as there are too many who do not have money to BUY IT.

I know the difference between lips moving, reality & candidates seeking votes.

i understand the war ending & what difference that will be.

it would not suprise me if bush lands an attack on iran just to prove his point that he can, if obama should win. don't put it pass either of them to keep this going... depending on individual motives.

[WhatMoney]

I dont believe a word of it until it happens. His plan does not offer coverage to all as there are too many who do not have money to BUY IT.

See Subsidies above. If you have low income or no income, the government should pick up the tab based on ability to pay - this what a national health care program is all about. This pisses off the conservatives, who feel poor people just deserve to get sick and die.

This is very much like Medicare for retirees is now. I pay very low ($25/mo) premium for good coverage and low affordable co-pays for out-patient procedures - it is affordable. If I had no income, Medicare or Medicaid would pay even more.

Before I turned 65 I had NO health insurance for 2 years. No choice, no money. Good thing I was healthy.

[Bandit]

This pisses off the conservatives, who feel poor people just deserve to get sick and die.

I know. Conservatives are the worse of them all. (probably another we agree on)

I remember people complaining about that. I aint paying for someone else who is poor who gets sick...yet they already pay for it in huge quantities the other way.

we live in some very strange times I must say.

I think he speaks a convincing talk but i dont think he can do the walk, either. Thogh he did walk from that nasty church which I will always give him credit for admitting that was not where he should be.

ok....lets get it on mcccain now...what is he lying about now? donating some 2 billion dollars for more coal nuclear refineries in future energy cost?

[HRx]

Now don't bring up Monica - the little slut. She was set up anyway. lol

lmao....oh man...

[Jason]

That's what politics is all about. They will say anything just to win the next election, so (although I'm pro Obama) I'll start believe when things are actually happening.

[BankruptPinoy]

Obama is the Anti-Christ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbbUUR5z-as

Pastor Shepherd, on his television show, Prayer Hour, has named Obama as the Anti-Christ!

What do y'all think?

Also, Pastor Shepherd has some comments about the
Economic Stimulus Checks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCijJIIcD04

[BankruptPinoy]

As soon as I get $2.50, I will attach it to a post card and mail it in to Pastor Shepherd. Who says politics and religion don't mix?

Ooops-gotta run! Power Hour is on tv right now!

Pastor Shepherd on the Election

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ot-JbW64r-w

[Bandit]

Obama is the Anti-Christ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbbUUR5z-as

Pastor Shepherd, on his television show, Prayer Hour, has named Obama as the Anti-Christ!

What do y'all think?

Also, Pastor Shepherd has some comments about the
Economic Stimulus Checks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCijJIIcD04

give our checks to Pastor Shepherd? That would be the same thing as giving it to george Push or obamamama. Is obamamama the antichrist? of course. they are all like that & do a wonderful job at convincing people they are some great leader when they are nothing more than a lying politician. Shepherd is a good comedian though

like i am so sure if you give your check to a preacher that his god is going to give you a bigger house.
all that will do is move the preacher into a bigger house & next year you will still owe the government that stimulus back.

That guy is quite funny & I bet some people try to give him money to be president, but Pastor Tilton would be a better president:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCBhbzLjE6w

[JRScott]

See Subsidies above. If you have low income or no income, the government should pick up the tab based on ability to pay - this what a national health care program is all about. This pisses off the conservatives, who feel poor people just deserve to get sick and die.

This is very much like Medicare for retirees is now. I pay very low ($25/mo) premium for good coverage and low affordable co-pays for out-patient procedures - it is affordable. If I had no income, Medicare or Medicaid would pay even more.

Before I turned 65 I had NO health insurance for 2 years. No choice, no money. Good thing I was healthy.

Conservatives don't feel that way. In fact Conservatives give more in charity than the liberals based on several studies.

Our Government simply doesn't have the money to pay for a national health care system. The numbers reported are not accurate, they never are. The GAO always underreports the cost of programs and overestimates the revenue of the taxes to support the programs.

You posted a nice chart in another thread that showed the various projections without a National Health Care Program. The chart you presented was from Ross Perot's site. It did not include a National Health Care System. By 2049 government spending will take up 55% of the GDP. Almost half of that will be Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. A third will be just interest on the national debt. Current spending is just over 20%. So you are looking at to just maintain current programs taxes will have to more than double in the next 40 years. That is something that is not sustainable.

If you add in the National Health Care system you will reach the same spending level in 1/4 the time and that's a conservative estimate on the spending. The only way to avoid that is to have a draconian process like most European as well as Canada has were it can take months to years to get necessary service, and much like France we'll all still need supplemental private insurance.

The key to lowering health costs in the United States are not federal mandates or NHC. Indeed those increase cost not decrease them. What we need are sensible laws capping lawsuit payouts which is the single largest factor in health care costs. We need to cap the payout from any lawsuit to 30x the annual income of the individual. This would significantly reduce the liability on a doctor's part and thus reduce the cost of liability insurance. Overall it would reduce the cost of medical care in the United States.