2008 Presidential Election

[Bandit]

I *HATE* the choices on this upcoming election; at the same time, it's time for Dubyah to go before this country is broke (and I voted for him, twice)... Ron McCain is basically a democrat on the republican ticket, so, really, any vote is democrat.

I'm probably not voting this time.

It is aweful this time. I dont see how any of them will be quite as bad as Jr. though. Could they really make things worse?!

I am going green or libertarian, constitutional or I know....can I vote for myself??

[JRScott]

It definately appears that it will be Obama and McCain running....good grief I hope the voters don't make McCain the next President!! That will be some scary sh1t.

Obama is as bad or worse than McCain, please don't think in terms of only Republicans and Democrats that's what has led our country down this path. To many want to just blame President Bush, but Congress is just as guilty if not more so for many of our countries woes.

[JRScott]

It is aweful this time. I dont see how any of them will be quite as bad as Jr. though. Could they really make things worse?!

I am going green or libertarian, constitutional or I know....can I vote for myself??

You could in theory write yourself in, however unless you are a recognized write in candidate for your state it wouldn't count. In North Carolina it takes thousands of signatures to get write in status.

[HRx]

Obama is as bad or worse than McCain, please don't think in terms of only Republicans and Democrats that's what has led our country down this path. To many want to just blame President Bush, but Congress is just as guilty if not more so for many of our countries woes.

If Bush/McCain were Democrats the people would still blame them for all thier poor actions that's created the mess we're in. It's ultimately about the incompetent leadership we had for the past eight years that's led to many of the problems our country has been experiencing. The Bush adminstration has pissed off the majority of Republicans that voted for him too. The U.S. needs change, and McCain definately will not provide it.

[PaKettle]

Obama is as bad or worse than McCain, please don't think in terms of only Republicans and Democrats that's what has led our country down this path. To many want to just blame President Bush, but Congress is just as guilty if not more so for many of our countries woes.

While I TOTALLY agree with you that the whole Rep vs. Dem. thing is a horrible system, the fact is, that IS the system, and there is no way around it.

You - or anyone - are never going to get a majority of people to vote for the Green Party of Libertarians or any of those.

The fact is this:
In THIS important election, (as in all previous elections) either a Democrat or a Republican is going to win. There is no way around that.

So the question is, which one would be better for the country right now?

Because of McCain's stance on the war I feel it is IMPERATIVE that we elect which ever Democrat runs against him.

To vote for a 3rd party will help elect McCain. So if that is what you want, do so.

Meanwhile, I am with you 100% if you believe that the System should be CHANGED in order to make a 3rd Party candidate truly viable. In order to do that we have to change the way elections are run and held. We have to make a more level playing field by not making huge amounts of money from corporate interests a big factor. We have to eliminate political ads in favor of fairly run Debates on all channels. Etc.

But voting for a 3rd party in this election - being part of that 3-5% or whatever - is not going to change anything. What will help at least a little is to vote for out any politicians who have a pro-Iraq-war record.

By the way, I saw a stat that 68% of the American people are against the war. So if these same people have a brain in their head, McCain should NOT be elected.

[Pizza]

Obama is as bad or worse than McCain, please don't think in terms of only Republicans and Democrats that's what has led our country down this path. To many want to just blame President Bush, but Congress is just as guilty if not more so for many of our countries woes.

Bush has a lot to be blamed for, and guess what, history has repeated itself again.

1970's:
An unpopular war
Global political unrest
Global climate scare
Rampant inflation with modest wage gains
A falling dollar.

2000's:
Another unpopular war
More global political unrest
Another global climate scare
More rampant inflation with modest wage gains
The dollar falls again.

YEARS OF WAR RUINS THE ECONOMY!

[MomIcantFindmy]

Bush has a lot to be blamed for, and guess what, history has repeated itself again.

1970's:
An unpopular war
Global political unrest
Global climate scare
Rampant inflation with modest wage gains
A falling dollar.

2000's:
Another unpopular war
More global political unrest
Another global climate scare
More rampant inflation with modest wage gains
The dollar falls again.

YEARS OF WAR RUINS THE ECONOMY!

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it. George Santayana

Time and time again.............

[JRScott]

First off I've never been for the War, my close friends know that.

The war is unconstitutional. There was no declaration of war. A declaration of War can only be issued by Congress not by the President. Congress though became lazy in the 1950s. They decided they didn't want to exercise their constitutional rights. So like with many other duties (such as overseeing patents, being responsible for making the countries money) they decided to pass another unconstitutional law which gave the President emergency authority to deploy troops in acts which are essentially war. That is how the United States has entered every conflict/war since that time. Ultimately therefore it is Congress fault for not exercising the rights of the Constitution and seeking to pass the buck to someone else.

Its just like how Congress no longer actually writes the bills it passes. That also is unconstitutional. They have bureaucrats that write them and over half the time no one has a clear idea of what they are voting on. There is no person serving in Congress that has read any major legislature in the past 20 years. They can't. They get the bills one day and they range from several hundred pages to several thousand. They vote the next day. No one reads them. No one has a clear idea of what they are passing. They do this because they don't want to do their jobs, and that is what is killing the system.

At the same time in 2007 there are only 10 votes that differ McCain and Obama in votes that they actually voted yes or no. In essence there is no real difference between the men. Both of them are Pro North American Union. That's right they are part of a group of senators that want to go so far as to cede the United States freedom to another overcountry. They are very much in favor of ceding our constitutional rights to foreign governments.

For example Obama wants to pass a law that will automatically force the United States to pay 7% of our GDP to the UN Food Program. We give more than all other nations combined already to the program. We are the most generous nation on Earth. Though it is noble to want to give so much aid, we simply cannot afford it. Even if you ended the Iraq war, it would not be enough to pay for this program, nor enough to fund his Health Care program. Think also of how much this would take out of our supermarkets in food, food prices are rising this year, If this passes they might double in 5 years.

McCain wants to ignore his constitutional duty to guard the nation's borders. Anyone that thinks we'd be more secure under McCain is fooling themselves. His social programs are not as expensive as Obama's, but the war could become as expensive as Obama's social programs (or Hillary's as well). The trouble is without a proper border those that want to harm us will just walk across the border and do so.

To those that say the third parties can't win, that's the Democrats and Republicans talking. They might not win this year, but if they can get enough votes, they might could change the cycle enough to be recognized more fully in 2012.

To change the election laws we must each learn of the process in our states and press upon our State Legislatures to change the laws in our states to be more generous to other parties.

We must act while we can. 8 or 12 years down the road it might be impossible to turn back the clock and at our current rate we could be a third world country in that time with our present Congress and Presidential pattern. The Republicans and Democrats have not always been in power, only for the last 150 years.

[PaKettle]

First off I've never been for the War, my close friends know that.

The war is unconstitutional. There was no declaration of war. A declaration of War can only be issued by Congress not by the President. Congress though became lazy in the 1950s. They decided they didn't want to exercise their constitutional rights. So like with many other duties (such as overseeing patents, being responsible for making the countries money) they decided to pass another unconstitutional law which gave the President emergency authority to deploy troops in acts which are essentially war. That is how the United States has entered every conflict/war since that time. Ultimately therefore it is Congress fault for not exercising the rights of the Constitution and seeking to pass the buck to someone else.

Its just like how Congress no longer actually writes the bills it passes. That also is unconstitutional. They have bureaucrats that write them and over half the time no one has a clear idea of what they are voting on. There is no person serving in Congress that has read any major legislature in the past 20 years. They can't. They get the bills one day and they range from several hundred pages to several thousand. They vote the next day. No one reads them. No one has a clear idea of what they are passing. They do this because they don't want to do their jobs, and that is what is killing the system.

At the same time in 2007 there are only 10 votes that differ McCain and Obama in votes that they actually voted yes or no. In essence there is no real difference between the men. Both of them are Pro North American Union. That's right they are part of a group of senators that want to go so far as to cede the United States freedom to another overcountry. They are very much in favor of ceding our constitutional rights to foreign governments.

For example Obama wants to pass a law that will automatically force the United States to pay 7% of our GDP to the UN Food Program. We give more than all other nations combined already to the program. We are the most generous nation on Earth. Though it is noble to want to give so much aid, we simply cannot afford it. Even if you ended the Iraq war, it would not be enough to pay for this program, nor enough to fund his Health Care program. Think also of how much this would take out of our supermarkets in food, food prices are rising this year, If this passes they might double in 5 years.

McCain wants to ignore his constitutional duty to guard the nation's borders. Anyone that thinks we'd be more secure under McCain is fooling themselves. His social programs are not as expensive as Obama's, but the war could become as expensive as Obama's social programs (or Hillary's as well). The trouble is without a proper border those that want to harm us will just walk across the border and do so.

To those that say the third parties can't win, that's the Democrats and Republicans talking. They might not win this year, but if they can get enough votes, they might could change the cycle enough to be recognized more fully in 2012.

To change the election laws we must each learn of the process in our states and press upon our State Legislatures to change the laws in our states to be more generous to other parties.

We must act while we can. 8 or 12 years down the road it might be impossible to turn back the clock and at our current rate we could be a third world country in that time with our present Congress and Presidential pattern. The Republicans and Democrats have not always been in power, only for the last 150 years.

I totally agree with your basic perspective.
However, to think that a 3rd party can win is naive. A 3rd party candidate CANNOT win, at this time.
The only way that will happen is if we change the way candidates are funded and debates and campaigns are run, by legal mandate.

Until then, (and I hope there comes a day when we as a people DO wake up and change the laws regarding these things so that a 3rd party candidate can be a viable alternative!) it's the same old dilemma:

Which is the lesser of evils that you would rather see elected?
Obama or McCain?

I'll choose Obama because at LEAST he is against the war, or will wind it down. I'll choose Obama because as a Democrat he is more likely to do SOMEthing for the people of this country as opposed to *just* lining the pockets of his rich friends.

But I am not kidding myself. I know that Hilary or Obama would not turn this country around from the head on collision course we are on, to become a 3rd World country. But no one can stop that train. All we can do is slow it down.

[Bandit]

so, Obama quits his church after the second preacher goes there & makes racist preaching. It was so obvious that church is filled with racism & that was his absolute best move ever, was to leave confirming there are big problems in him supporting such a thing for 17 years- now he just needs to throw michelle out as well, that or duct tape her lips

McCain is still trying to understand the difference between Iraq & Iran & is not sure how many troops are actually out there somewhere having a war....

and Hillary wants to change the rules for the 3rd time because she now says popular vote should get the election & poor papa Clinton thinks his poor little wifey pooh Is just not getting the right treatment... WAH!

so they just take 4 delegates in MI that belonged to Cli & give them to Oba just for the hell of it...so a lot of people who voted one way, they just took their votes & gave them to someone else...um, why even bother having the public vote?!
& these are the people we put into the Senate?

Oh yah! nothing is going to stop this train wreck from happening.

[Bandit]

To those that say the third parties can't win, that's the Democrats and Republicans talking. They might not win this year, but if they can get enough votes, they might could change the cycle enough to be recognized more fully in 2012.

To change the election laws we must each learn of the process in our states and press upon our State Legislatures to change the laws in our states to be more generous to other parties.

We must act while we can. 8 or 12 years down the road it might be impossible to turn back the clock and at our current rate we could be a third world country in that time with our present Congress and Presidential pattern. The Republicans and Democrats have not always been in power, only for the last 150 years.

I agree all the way only it is going to take a lot longer than that for the public to figure it out & get past the silly hype of the lies from R&D elections, maybe more like 2050 or somewhere in there.

The nation did not start out with the rep & dem crap we have been brainwashed into over the decades. There are huge problems with the election laws & every election year they become more & more sloppy with it, doing whatever they feel like.

I do also think that the internet is going to have a huge influence over the voting system & getting the truth out to the public in future elections, as long as our evolving 3rd world government does not shut it down.

& those are my rants for this week

[HRx]

Clinton is going to official concede this week...

[maddog2112]

08 pres.

Whats to think about??? President Bush and his(whats left of his republican congress) have shown over and over what their all about.Handing this country over to corporate America at the expense of all ordinary working class citizens. It`s no surprise that the new BK laws were written by credit card companies for the administration, as well as the secret energy policies written by Cheney and his oil company buddies. We all know what that has gotten us in terms of gas prices!!! Anything thats good for large corporate profits is perfectly fine with Dubya and cronies! There`s investigations going on right now on c-span talking about the manipulation of oil futures markets forcing the upward surge in price per barrel.Do you see Dubya or any of his cronies talking about it!!! Hell no, they won`t even show to any meetings about it!!! As long as there is alot of money to be made by the richest among us, they just turn there heads. They say they are the real patriots of this country, which is all B.S. .They are the ones destroying it from within.Lets not even mention their love of perpetual war to keep the large profits from no bid contracts and cost plus deals gong to their 140 thousand civilian contractors that they have had in Iraq since day one, sucking up all that unlimited tax payer money (that we borrow from China) 12 billion a month. Talk about redistribution of wealth.Who`s gonna pay for it. Us and our grand children, and theirs as well.But they sure will make it tougher for us to get a fresh start.Wake up people!!!! These republicans are hoping you will vote on values ( as though they have any)and against social issues, so they can continue to rape all ordinary citizens financially!!!!!! Thats all they care about. I will vote for whoever is on the democratic ticket if for nothing else just to stop the bleeding from what will surely be seen as the most corrupt administration in UNITED STATES HISTORY!!!!!!! And you should tooo. Quit watching fox news if you want the truth, try Obermann on msnbc. The truth is alot harder too hear, but you will be doing yourself and your children alot better service by paying attention to the ugly facts instead of the administration spin.

[BKOnce]

Oh oh, today the lady said... "Yes, I can be his running mate if it helps us (dem) win.."

So we have....Obama is President, and Clinton is "Vice" woman!?? WTF??... Two best heads in one shot!?? (America people CAN NOT avoid demo. They all coming to Office)

[FLBK7]

Oh oh, today the lady said... "Yes, I can be his running mate if it helps us (dem) win.."

So we have....Obama is President, and Clinton is "Vice" woman!?? WTF??... Two best heads in one shot!?? (America people CAN NOT avoid demo. They all coming to Office)

NO candidate, while running for President, ever says he/she would consider the VP slot. That would be conceding defeat while there is still a chance. I'm not at all surprised at Clinton's comment above, since Obama has basically clinched the nomination, so now the timing is right.

I wonder though, how Hill would do as VP with Obama as P? She is such a strong-willed person, and already has the invaluable experience of 8 years in the WH. I think such a ticket would be good, but would they "mix" well, personality-wise? I worry about that.

I heard from my political e-groups that the Republicans are now courting Condi Rice for the VP spot. Condi has no domestic or economic experience at all. But it would still be a shrewd (albeit desperate) move from the GOP.

I'm sick of the election already (it's too long!!!!!!), but it's proving to be one of the more interesting ones of my lifetime.