Political Discussion

[banca rotta]

That's the thing - the ruling economic class wants to turn out workers, not thinkers!!!

It seems they produced neither. At least they have produced no work for the workers and "thinkers" are rapidly disappearing.

[IamOld]

Agreed!!!!!!

it seems they produced neither. At least they have produced no work for the workers and "thinkers" are rapidly disappearing.

[sguerra923]

Well, actually that's not really true - FEMA is not in "debt' any more than any gov't agency can be in debt. It's interesting that - frankly - a certain network and a certain political party talks about "Fraud" in agencies that actually help people, and not for example, the Pentagon. Please don't just listen to campaign commercials...

I'm totally far from getting my facts from the media and commercials. FEMA is 20 billion in debt they had to transfer what was left in Joplin to help the flood victims. Like I said earlier if you do the research and not go by hear say then you'll see the true light.

If people really just watched some of Dr. Paul's debates and speech they will grab the true concept of what he's trying to do. He knows that he can't change the mindset of society wanting entitlements but he want to free up wasted spending like foreign policy and the Federal Res. so the money can stay where it belongs. It's really thinking 2 step above the normal and not focus on the tree branches of the problem because those will always come back in a different form however if we focus on the roots those problem can't come back.

Like Thomas Jefferson said, "A goverment big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have."

[jacko]

Are you not receiving a entitlement yourself?

I'm totally far from getting my facts from the media and commercials. FEMA is 20 billion in debt they had to transfer what was left in Joplin to help the flood victims. Like I said earlier if you do the research and not go by hear say then you'll see the true light.

If people really just watched some of Dr. Paul's debates and speech they will grab the true concept of what he's trying to do. He knows that he can't change the mindset of society wanting entitlements but he want to free up wasted spending like foreign policy and the Federal Res. so the money can stay where it belongs. It's really thinking 2 step above the normal and not focus on the tree branches of the problem because those will always come back in a different form however if we focus on the roots those problem can't come back.

Like Thomas Jefferson said, "A goverment big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have."

[IamOld]

Are you not receiving a entitlement yourself?

Exactly - first, entitlement is a "code word" by those who wish to take our benefits away from us. And but so what if it is an entitlement...aren't we entitled to a decent retirement in the "richest country on Earth?" This is NOT a question in other developed countries!

Also re Jefferson - Jefferson never said what the poster above says - http://www.factcheck.org/2009/03/fdr...cial-security/ (Scroll down on page)

For one thing, the English is modern not 18th Cent English.

[banca rotta]

Exactly - first, entitlement is a "code word" by those who wish to take our benefits away from us. And but so what if it is an entitlement...aren't we entitled to a decent retirement in the "richest country on Earth?" This is NOT a question in other developed countries!

Also re Jefferson - Jefferson never said what the poster above says - http://www.factcheck.org/2009/03/fdr...cial-security/ (Scroll down on page)

For one thing, the English is modern not 18th Cent English.

You bet we are! What I have always said about "entitlements" or whatever we want to call them is none of them are workable in their current form. Pensions, 401k's, S.S./Medicare, etc. just won't do it anymore.

One of the fixes would be sound money whether we go back on a gold standard or at least abolish the fed and replace it with a better system. This would give the working person the ability to actually save for retirement something that is just not possible today.

It will also allow employers and the govt to put some money aside in some sort of lock box for a person to have at retirement.

We live in an inflationary, debt based monetary system where it's very design transfers wealth from those that don't know the system to those that do know it.

It's also a ponzi scheme which relies on newbies to pay for the old timers and today the western world and Japan have more old timers then newbies.

This explains why all the market turmoil and it's getting worse until we rethink it.

[shark66]

The aforementioned quote that many people believe is Jefferson's, is actually from a speech by President Ford...

http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/government-big-enough-to-give-you-everything-you-wantquotation

One thing that no one wants to talk about in Europe and Japan - which is one of the biggest problems regarding sustainability of the entitlement programs as we know them - is the negative birth rate...

Here, of course, other reasons come into play...

Good luck to us all.

[helpmeout]

If people really just watched some of Dr. Paul's debates and speech they will grab the true concept of what he's trying to do.

Just because people don't agree with your stance on Ron Paul doesn't mean that they aren't listening or understanding what he is saying. They just don't agree with his stance and recognize that he would not make a good president, he would do a whole lot of harm.

[sguerra923]

Just because people don't agree with your stance on Ron Paul doesn't mean that they aren't listening or understanding what he is saying. They just don't agree with his stance and recognize that he would not make a good president, he would do a whole lot of harm.

But if you claim he's going to do a whole lot of harm then why are his numbers (supporters) increasing day by day? What are these Ron Paul supporters getting from his messages that he's delivering? What is he saying that we aren't getting?

It doesn't make sense why he was able to raise 1 million dollars in one day last week from regular people doing the work and not even his campaign doing much work. It doesn't make sense why he won the California straw poll and is always in the top 3 in polls and most of all having more donations and support from the military which out beats all GOP runners combine also beating out Obama. Also, averaging 2,000+ likes a day on facebook which puts him at 524,000+?

Can someone please explain to me why people are so interested in having him as our next president? Why is the military supporting him? Or is it just numbers being manipulated to make is seem like he has a chance?

[banca rotta]

One of the reasons or actually the main reason I like RP is he's one of the only few people that understands the corrupt monetary system.

One example I use is this recent post: Try this and see how you do http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.ph...see-how-you-do

It's a good lesson for those that don't know what it's like to be working poor.

My point is that for the 40 plus million that are struggling even though they are working they shouldn't have to struggle if this was a true free market system!!!!

It isn't that they don't have enough income, it's that fed money printing, Obama/Bush, dem/repub spending and stimulas and "good intention" social programs really keep the cost of living too high for the lower income people.

In a real free market system, (something we DO NOT currently have) the cost of living would drop and this would help the poor folks.

Prices in all areas of the economy always seek fair value and Ron Paul is the only one that sees this.

None of the politicians see this and the liberals especially cannot understand this especially in healthcare. If we all cannot afford health care then prices will come down to their correct price point. If we have govt assistance in healthcare then it actually prices the poor out.

[msm859]

Can someone please explain to me why people are so interested in having him as our next president? Why is the military supporting him? Or is it just numbers being manipulated to make is seem like he has a chance?

His message is generally very simple and easy to understand and many people like that. Ending all the wars and closing our bases oversees has a lot of merit. We need to put this country first before we try to expand our empire. Unfortunately, he is also a bit extreme on some of his libertarian ideas that don't quite fit in a modern society. The short answer though is he does not have a chance.

[msm859]

One of the reasons or actually the main reason I like RP is he's one of the only few people that understands the corrupt monetary system.

One example I use is this recent post: Try this and see how you do http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.ph...see-how-you-do

It's a good lesson for those that don't know what it's like to be working poor.

My point is that for the 40 plus million that are struggling even though they are working they shouldn't have to struggle if this was a true free market system!!!!

It isn't that they don't have enough income, it's that fed money printing, Obama/Bush, dem/repub spending and stimulas and "good intention" social programs really keep the cost of living too high for the lower income people. Not true. The problem is that they don't have enough income. For the last 20 years the rich have been getting all of the gains. The middle class income has been stagnant. The stimulas and social programs do NOT keep the cost of living too high. Gas is higher than it would naturally be under supply and demand economics because Wall Street is manipulating the market with their excessive speculation.

In a real free market system, (something we DO NOT currently have) the cost of living would drop and this would help the poor folks. NO

Prices in all areas of the economy always seek fair value NO People/Corporations try to maximize profit and Ron Paul is the only one that sees this.

None of the politicians see this and the liberals especially cannot understand this especially in healthcare. If we all cannot afford health care then prices will come down to their correct price point. If we have govt assistance in healthcare then it actually prices the poor out.

Sorry, again not true. Health insurance has been skyrocketing year after year and less and less people can afford it (Under your belief the price should go down when less can afford) If you want healthcare prices to go down then we need a single payor system the profit system we have today will not do it. http://abcnews.go.com/Health/HealthC...ory?id=9818699
If we want to be proactive we should also tax fast food, junk food, alcohol and tobacco with the extra tax going towards healthcare and to try to curb the growing unhealthy lifestyles that are really going to put a burden on our health care system.

[helpmeout]

But if you claim he's going to do a whole lot of harm then why are his numbers (supporters) increasing day by day? What are these Ron Paul supporters getting from his messages that he's delivering? What is he saying that we aren't getting?

And, yet, he's not going to be the next president.

People are looking for a quick and easy fix. His message is simple, wrong but simple, and easy to understand. BTW, his supporters probably don't even understand the harm he would do. Just like Bush's supporters (even though they were a minority of voters, one more reason to get rid of the electoral college) didn't understand the harm that he would do when the Supreme Court handed him the presidency.

Everyone is blaming President Obama for what is going on now. The only thing he is to blame for is not having a backbone and letting Bush's tax cuts expire. The economy today is a direct result of 8 years of a republican as a president and the gop and tea partiers (who really have no idea what the Boston Tea Party was about at all) holding the economy hostage. They even threatened to do it over aid to natural disaster victims. BTW, Ron Paul would eliminate that completely. Another way he would do severe harm to humans and the economy.

[sguerra923]

And, yet, he's not going to be the next president.

People are looking for a quick and easy fix. His message is simple, wrong but simple, and easy to understand. BTW, his supporters probably don't even understand the harm he would do. Just like Bush's supporters (even though they were a minority of voters, one more reason to get rid of the electoral college) didn't understand the harm that he would do when the Supreme Court handed him the presidency.

Everyone is blaming President Obama for what is going on now. The only thing he is to blame for is not having a backbone and letting Bush's tax cuts expire. The economy today is a direct result of 8 years of a republican as a president and the gop and tea partiers (who really have no idea what the Boston Tea Party was about at all) holding the economy hostage. They even threatened to do it over aid to natural disaster victims. BTW, Ron Paul would eliminate that completely. Another way he would do severe harm to humans and the economy.

That's the scary part if you're saying that Ron Paul is going to harm humans and the economy which sounds like his supporters are brain washed to believe that liberties, freedom, and backing the constitution will destroy America? I still don't understand if you're saying it will destroy America then why are more and more people backing Ron Paul? What are you seeing that thousands of other people world wide are missing? Because I'm in the middle of trying to understand your point and backers of Ron Paul... I'm not saying you're wrong but I want to understand why his numbers are growing..

[banca rotta]

Sorry, again not true. Health insurance has been skyrocketing year after year and less and less people can afford it (Under your belief the price should go down when less can afford) If you want healthcare prices to go down then we need a single payor system the profit system we have today will not do it. http://abcnews.go.com/Health/HealthC...ory?id=9818699
If we want to be proactive we should also tax fast food, junk food, alcohol and tobacco with the extra tax going towards healthcare and to try to curb the growing unhealthy lifestyles that are really going to put a burden on our health care system.

Stock prices go down because there are more sellers then buyers. The same goes for housing, cars, stuff and healthcare. There's either less demand for something or it's priced too high and the price needs to correct to a price point that's affordable.

Because of the govt's involvement or healthcare and college education their prices are artificially high. The fed gives the govt who gives us the digital dollars that's not worth the paper it's not printed on which causes higher prices for the poor.

I wouldn't tax "junk food" but rather tell the folks with no self control they will have to pay more since they are a higher risk. I bet that free market idea will bring down their weight as well as their health care costs.