Political Discussion

[GoingDown]

#26) The U.S. government has declared some parts of Arizona off limits to U.S. citizens because of the threat of violence from Mexican drug smugglers.


Another one related to #26 that just came out today is Obammy today filed a lawsuit against the state of Arizona for it's new immigration law.

You bammy sheeple really did it this time. Hmmm don't take your error in judgement personally. We really had no choice in 2008.

I live in Arizona, and I work side by side with "illegal immigrants" and I have to say that all this anti-immigration rhetoric is simply not helpful. These people are some of the hardest working and most helpful people I have ever known. Some of them are my best friends.

The focus needs to be put on the drug cartels smuggling drugs across the border. They are the dangerous ones.

But no matter what you do, you will not stop the mass migration from south of the border. You might as well get used to them, at least accept them, and hopefully be friends with some of them. Otherwise you are missing out on a lot of extremely fun fiestas. These people know how to have fun.

[houston7]

I live in Arizona, and I work side by side with "illegal immigrants" and I have to say that all this anti-immigration rhetoric is simply not helpful. These people are some of the hardest working and most helpful people I have ever known. Some of them are my best friends.

The focus needs to be put on the drug cartels smuggling drugs across the border. They are the dangerous ones.

But no matter what you do, you will not stop the mass migration from south of the border. You might as well get used to them, at least accept them, and hopefully be friends with some of them. Otherwise you are missing out on a lot of extremely fun fiestas. These people know how to have fun.

I'll report from Houston Texas and second this. Not only is this debate not helpful, it is a waste of time. Neither side really wants to solve this issue.
Republicans want the cheap labor and democrats want the potential votes.

[OhioFiler]

I live in Arizona, and I work side by side with "illegal immigrants" and I have to say that all this anti-immigration rhetoric is simply not helpful. These people are some of the hardest working and most helpful people I have ever known. Some of them are my best friends.

The focus needs to be put on the drug cartels smuggling drugs across the border. They are the dangerous ones.

But no matter what you do, you will not stop the mass migration from south of the border. You might as well get used to them, at least accept them, and hopefully be friends with some of them. Otherwise you are missing out on a lot of extremely fun fiestas. These people know how to have fun.

It matters not who is hard working or helpful. We are a nation of laws. If you can't abide our laws you have no business in our country. Your reasoning, extended to other law-breakers such as, say rapists, implies if the rapist is also hard working and helpful we should turn a blind eye to his crimes. Besides, he probably throws a fine party!

The mass migration can be stopped and will be stopped.

I miss out on no fun fiestas. I can capable of having a grand time without illegal aliens.

[backtoschool]

It matters not who is hard working or helpful. We are a nation of laws. If you can't abide our laws you have no business in our country. Your reasoning, extended to other law-breakers such as, say rapists, implies if the rapist is also hard working and helpful we should turn a blind eye to his crimes. Besides, he probably throws a fine party!

The mass migration can be stopped and will be stopped.

I miss out on no fun fiestas. I can capable of having a grand time without illegal aliens.

Closing our borders has never worked and never will work. People will always be willing to take risks to provide themselves the chance for a better life.

As a country of immigrants, it is simply wrong to start discriminating now. People should not be stopped on the streets because of the color of their skin or the shape of their facial features, etc, ie because they "look" like they are from a country that has a high incidence of its citizens becoming illegal immigrants here.

There are plenty of dead end jobs for everyone. If someone wants to pick grapes, mow lawns, clean toilets or make tacos at a street cart, those jobs exist today. Why discriminate as to who gets those jobs? It is heartless for no good reason, and betrays the very open door principles that made this country great.

And as to illegal immigrants breaking the law, well many people break minor laws at some point in their lives. I don't think that people should be punished endlessly for breaking a law in the past. We should be a forgiving and compassionate country.

[OhioFiler]

Closing our borders has never worked and never will work. People will always be willing to take risks to provide themselves the chance for a better life.

As a country of immigrants, it is simply wrong to start discriminating now. People should not be stopped on the streets because of the color of their skin or the shape of their facial features, etc, ie because they "look" like they are from a country that has a high incidence of its citizens becoming illegal immigrants here.

There are plenty of dead end jobs for everyone. If someone wants to pick grapes, mow lawns, clean toilets or make tacos at a street cart, those jobs exist today. Why discriminate as to who gets those jobs? It is heartless for no good reason, and betrays the very open door principles that made this country great.

And as to illegal immigrants breaking the law, well many people break minor laws at some point in their lives. I don't think that people should be punished endlessly for breaking a law in the past. We should be a forgiving and compassionate country.

Closing our borders will reduce the number of illegal entrants. As our borders sit now we have limited control over entry.

We should be discriminating on who we allow to immigrate to our country. Shall we praise Castro for loading a boat with convicts and dispatching them to our shores? Should we turn a blind eye to the drug cartel members who flow back and forth across our southern border?

Who is stopped on the street for skin tone or facial feature shape? This argument is specious and only liberals abide it.

Because a job exists is no argument for allowing illegal entry into our country.

Illegal entry into our country is no minor law breaking. It is serious and should be prosecuted with vigor.

[banca rotta]

We should be a forgiving and compassionate country.

We are and it's a huge reason why we are in this mess. Just look at all the bankrupt hospitals in Calf and everywhere else.

Like it or not, agree or not as Ohio said we are a nation of laws. Today I noticed that only the growing poor and shrinking middle class have to abide by the law.

No one else seems to have to and that will change very soon I hope.

[backtoschool]

Closing our borders will reduce the number of illegal entrants. As our borders sit now we have limited control over entry.

We should be discriminating on who we allow to immigrate to our country. Shall we praise Castro for loading a boat with convicts and dispatching them to our shores? Should we turn a blind eye to the drug cartel members who flow back and forth across our southern border?

Who is stopped on the street for skin tone or facial feature shape? This argument is specious and only liberals abide it.

Because a job exists is no argument for allowing illegal entry into our country.

Illegal entry into our country is no minor law breaking. It is serious and should be prosecuted with vigor.

Racism and xenophobia have never led to any positive or productive outcome in this country. I have no desire to go back to the fear and racial hatred of the 1930's. Although our economy is suffering, targeting innocent people because of their heritage is not a productive option and never will be.

For every "convict" that Castro sent over, there were many many more productive hard-working Cubans that came over here and helped make this country productive and prosperous.

I am of the belief that many people, both citizens and non-citizens, break laws at some time in their lives and are not necessarily deserving of being "prosecuted with vigor". Why should we wink and turn the other way to some non-violent crimes, yet pursue other non-violent crimes with vigor? Who gets to decide which crimes should be ignored? Certainly I don't want to be on the public stoning committee.....

And frankly, if there wasn't such a huge demand for drugs, there would not be such a huge supply. Let's concentrate on treatment for chronic boredom, pain, and depression, which is what is causing the demand for drugs. If there is no market for the drugs, the problems solves itself....

[backtoschool]

We are and it's a huge reason why we are in this mess. Just look at all the bankrupt hospitals in Calf and everywhere else.

Like it or not, agree or not as Ohio said we are a nation of laws. Today I noticed that only the growing poor and shrinking middle class have to abide by the law.

No one else seems to have to and that will change very soon I hope.

I understand where you are coming from banca rotta. But for me it's a matter of consistency. If we punish white men who have committed non-violent crimes as vigorously as we punish those of foreign heritage or of darker skin color, then at least we are being fair and meting out punishment on a level playing field.

But we don't seem to do this as a country and that is what I have a problem with.....

[NoMoeMoney]

Just look at all the more people who have filed BK in the last year alone not to mention the people who are on the edge of filing. Do people honestly believe that the government will be able to survive the debt it has created when they can't survive their own! No, when the second dip comes it will be all over. Death and destruction will reign supreme because desperate people do desperate things, compassion will be a very rare trait! It has happened before in the past and will happen again.

[BobMango]

Racism and xenophobia have never led to any positive or productive outcome in this country. I have no desire to go back to the fear and racial hatred of the 1930's. Although our economy is suffering, targeting innocent people because of their heritage is not a productive option and never will be.

For every "convict" that Castro sent over, there were many many more productive hard-working Cubans that came over here and helped make this country productive and prosperous.

I am of the belief that many people, both citizens and non-citizens, break laws at some time in their lives and are not necessarily deserving of being "prosecuted with vigor". Why should we wink and turn the other way to some non-violent crimes, yet pursue other non-violent crimes with vigor? Who gets to decide which crimes should be ignored? Certainly I don't want to be on the public stoning committee.....

And frankly, if there wasn't such a huge demand for drugs, there would not be such a huge supply. Let's concentrate on treatment for chronic boredom, pain, and depression, which is what is causing the demand for drugs. If there is no market for the drugs, the problems solves itself....

That's it, whip out the race card. Heaven knows it doesn't get enough use these days. Thing is I like brown people and black people and all kinds of people. Some are close friends, some are family members. Why do folks that want to secure the border always get hammered with the race card? It seems like a cheap shot when you have no real rational basis for argument. What I don't like are people of any kind breaking and entering and them demanding that I treat them as an honored guest.

The bottom line is that we need to control our border, not to keep out people that are different, but to maintain our security, both physical and economical. We need a guest worker program that allows our neighbors to the north or south to easily move back and forth for employment, whether that's daily, weekly, monthly or other. We need to make it difficult to obtain work here if you're not entitled. Doing just these two things will make monitoring and securing our border that much easier.

So stop with the race accusations when you know nothing about the motivations of folks that think a secure border is a good thing.

[banca rotta]

And there you have it BobMango.

Whenever you speak your mind and debate about right and wrong or breaking the law vs abiding by it there's always another one out there such as backtoschool that plays the race card.

I wasn't mentioning race!

The real reason nothing productive is getting done on this immigration issue. The backtoschools of the world have done more to set back race relations then the kkk could ever hope to do.

It's right and wrong!!!! Not skin color!!!

There are so few backtoschools and yet the politicians and media roll out the red carpet for them every time unfortunately.

[banca rotta]

Just look at all the more people who have filed BK in the last year alone not to mention the people who are on the edge of filing. Do people honestly believe that the government will be able to survive the debt it has created when they can't survive their own! No, when the second dip comes it will be all over. Death and destruction will reign supreme because desperate people do desperate things, compassion will be a very rare trait! It has happened before in the past and will happen again.

They will survive with all the wealth they have stolen.

What will most likely happen is we will default on the debt by some or all of it. The rest of the world including China will have major difficulties since they are our creditors and they won't see their money back or if they do it will have lost most of it's value.

[OhioFiler]

Racism and xenophobia have never led to any positive or productive outcome in this country. I have no desire to go back to the fear and racial hatred of the 1930's. Although our economy is suffering, targeting innocent people because of their heritage is not a productive option and never will be.

For every "convict" that Castro sent over, there were many many more productive hard-working Cubans that came over here and helped make this country productive and prosperous.

I am of the belief that many people, both citizens and non-citizens, break laws at some time in their lives and are not necessarily deserving of being "prosecuted with vigor". Why should we wink and turn the other way to some non-violent crimes, yet pursue other non-violent crimes with vigor? Who gets to decide which crimes should be ignored? Certainly I don't want to be on the public stoning committee.....

And frankly, if there wasn't such a huge demand for drugs, there would not be such a huge supply. Let's concentrate on treatment for chronic boredom, pain, and depression, which is what is causing the demand for drugs. If there is no market for the drugs, the problems solves itself....

Racism and xenophobia are common claims made by liberals when the issue of border security is debated. The reason is liberals feel shielded with that response because they believe no one will claim racism and xenophobia are acceptable reasons to protect our borders.

The truth is MOST Americans who prefer our borders be protected have no idea what xenophobic is (nor are they) and can't fathom why some wish to frame this issue around race.

Our border security should be addressed as any free country would. In fact, I propose we apply the laws and punishment of the country of origin for every illegal we find in our borders.

For the record, the moment an illegal crosses our border they are no longer "innocent" regardless their intentions.

I agree with you. We should not wink at crimes committed by citizens. I'm sure Governor Blagoyevich doesn't believe we turn a blind eye to non-violent crimes. Ask Scooter Libby how he feels. Stoning is considered cruel punishment and barred by our wonderful Constitution.

Changing the topic and the reason to drug abuse by lawful citizens is pretenseful. The drug problem in our country is not related to the border security and illegal alien debate.

[backtoschool]

Racism and xenophobia are common claims made by liberals when the issue of border security is debated. The reason is liberals feel shielded with that response because they believe no one will claim racism and xenophobia are acceptable reasons to protect our borders.

The truth is MOST Americans who prefer our borders be protected have no idea what xenophobic is (nor are they) and can't fathom why some wish to frame this issue around race.

Our border security should be addressed as any free country would. In fact, I propose we apply the laws and punishment of the country of origin for every illegal we find in our borders.

For the record, the moment an illegal crosses our border they are no longer "innocent" regardless their intentions.

I agree with you. We should not wink at crimes committed by citizens. I'm sure Governor Blagoyevich doesn't believe we turn a blind eye to non-violent crimes. Ask Scooter Libby how he feels. Stoning is considered cruel punishment and barred by our wonderful Constitution.

Changing the topic and the reason to drug abuse by lawful citizens is pretenseful. The drug problem in our country is not related to the border security and illegal alien debate.

I thought I replied to this already but I just realized I hadn't yet.

I think you make some interesting points OhioFiler, but of course I do not agree with you.

Are we as worried about Canadians sneaking into our borders as we are about Hispanics? I don't see Fox News talking much about the huge Canadian border problem we are having. Border patrols have always been, at least on some level, about keeping Minorities out. Because we are less welcoming to those that seem "different" in some way than ourselves (different language, different facial features, etc....) xenophobia does come to play in border discussions.

And there seems to be some confusion regarding my comments on non-violent crimes in my previous post. I think we should wink at non-violent crimes. We should be a compassionate country that forgives people and gives them a second chance. Nobody should have to pay indefinitely for non-violent crimes that they committed in the past. Many illegal immigrants are productive members of society and we should welcome them into our economy wholeheartedly and forgive the minor transgression that brought them to our borders.

One of the main reasons the drug problem is related to border security, is that those in favor of border security keep citing the drug problem as a reason to beef up patrols and discriminate against citizens and non-citizens alike. I am merely pointing out that if demand for drugs goes down, the drug problem at our borders will also go down. I am not sure how I am being "pretenseful". I am a pretty down to earth girl, who believes that we should not be targeting innocent people and creating an atmosphere of hatred and fear.

[BobMango]

Are we as worried about Canadians sneaking into our borders as we are about Hispanics? I don't see Fox News talking much about the huge Canadian border problem we are having. Border patrols have always been, at least on some level, about keeping Minorities out. Because we are less welcoming to those that seem "different" in some way than ourselves (different language, different facial features, etc....) xenophobia does come to play in border discussions.

No, we're not as worried about our northern border, but not for the reason you suppose. When attacking a problem (i.e. our porous borders) you generally go after the biggest issue first (see 80/20 rule). So the reason to secure our southern border is not because brown people are coming across it, but because hordes of unknown non-citizens are. If we had the same volume moving south across that border I would have the same concerns there.

...I am merely pointing out that if demand for drugs goes down, the drug problem at our borders will also go down. ...

Again, this is akin to blaming the victim. As in: If that woman hadn't dressed like that she wouldn't have been raped; if America were nicer to Muslims then 9/11 wouldn't have happened; if people didn't do drugs we wouldn't have drug related killings or drug smuggling. At some point responsibility for bad actions has to accrue to the bad actors, not the victims or bystanders.

So stop saying we're xenophobic or racist. We have perfectly valid reasons for wanting to secure our borders. And they have nothing to do with the bad intentions or intolerance you keep trying to tar us with.