Political Discussion

[FilingOnMyOwn]

I can't believe that content was allowed on this website. It should be deleted and the one poster who came here with it as his one and only post should be permanently banned.

[HRx]

Yesterday, 07:28 PM #2
lrprn
Moderator
B/F Guru



Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Midwest
Posts: 1,132 According to The Spectrum (http://www.thespectrum.com/apps/pbcs.../1014/OPINION), this content from last Friday has not yet been verified. It is attributed to Abu Hamza al-Muhajer, or al-Masri (the Egyptian). He is the successor to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, killed in June by a U.S. airstrike. You can find a full transcript at http://www.lauramansfield.com .
__________________
This is not legal advice - only a lawyer can provide that.

06/01/06 - Filed Ch 13
06/28/06 - 341 Meeting
07/18/06 - Confirmation Hearing - our plan not confirmed due to trustee objections
10/05/06 - Hearing to resolve objections - will be test case for judge to issue ruling

""There is no legal obligation to perform impossibilities." - Publius Celsus (Unless you file Chapter 13, that is)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by lrprn : Yesterday at 07:37 PM.

[Credit Hater]

That post is promotion of hate...not political discussion!

[HRx]

"Rep. Charles Rangel said Sunday that he plans to propose a measure creating a new military draft in order to deter future wars."

The concept behind this guys idea is quite interesting....Read more about it below:

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Americans would have to sign up for a new military draft after turning 18 if the incoming chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee has his way.

New York Democratic Rep. Charles Rangel said Sunday he sees his idea as a way to deter politicians from launching wars. He believes a draft would bolster U.S. troop levels that are currently insufficient to cover potential future action in Iran, North Korea and Iraq.

"There's no question in my mind that this president and this administration would never have invaded Iraq, especially on the flimsy evidence that was presented to the Congress, if indeed we had a draft, and members of Congress and the administration thought that their kids from their communities would be placed in harm's way," Rangel said.

Rangel, a veteran of the Korean War who has unsuccessfully sponsored legislation on conscription in the past, said he will propose a measure early next year.

In 2003, he proposed a draft covering people age 18 to 26. This year, he offered a plan to mandate military service for men and women between age 18 and 42. It went nowhere in the Republican-led Congress.

Democrats will control the House and Senate come January because of their victories in the November 7 mid-term election.

At a time when some lawmakers are urging the military to send more troops to Iraq, "I don't see how anyone can support the war and not support the draft," said Rangel.

He also proposed a draft in January 2003, before the U.S. invasion of Iraq.

Sen. Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican who is a colonel in the U.S. Air Force Standby Reserve, said he agreed that the U.S. does not have enough people in the military.

"I think we can do this with an all-voluntary service, all-voluntary Army, Air Force, Marine Corps and Navy. And if we can't, then we'll look for some other option," said Graham, who is assigned as a reserve judge to the Air Force Court of Criminal Appeals.

Rangel and Graham appeared on "Face the Nation" on CBS.

Polls show most Americans oppose a draft
Rangel, the next chairman of the House tax-writing committee, said he worried the military is strained by its overseas commitments.

"If we're going to challenge Iran and challenge North Korea and then, as some people have asked, to send more troops to Iraq, we can't do that without a draft," Rangel said.

He said having a draft would not necessarily mean everyone called to duty would have to serve. Instead, "young people (would) commit themselves to a couple of years in service to this great republic, whether it's our seaports, our airports, in schools, in hospitals," with a promise of educational benefits at the end of service.

Graham said he believes the all-voluntary military "represents the country pretty well in terms of ethnic makeup, economic background."

Repeated polls have shown that about seven in 10 Americans oppose reinstatement of the draft and officials say they do not expect to restart conscription.

Outgoing Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld told Congress in June 2005 that "there isn't a chance in the world that the draft will be brought back."

Yet the prospect of the long global fight against terrorism and the continuing U.S. commitment to stabilizing Iraq have kept the idea in the public's mind.

The military drafted conscripts during the Civil War, both world wars and between 1948 and 1973.

The Selective Service System, an agency independent of the Defense Department, keeps an updated registry of men age 18-25 -- now about 16 million -- from which to supply untrained draftees that would supplement the professional all-volunteer armed forces.

[Credit Hater]

Well, while this is delving deeper into politics than I like to engage in on this type of Web forum, I'd like to point out it does stray away from the subject originally at hand that I and Filingonmyown commented on from perla1. I stand by my statement that perla1 made a promotion of hate with that post. I'm a little perplexed that propaganda has even remained here up to this point, but so be it if you want it here......

[Minnymouth]

The posting by HRx regarding the speech made by the new Al-Qaeda leader to the citizens if Iraq was posted as an "informative peice of political information. "

Often our citizens do no KNOW what another nation's leader thinks of us......... often it is good to be reminded JUST HOW THEY REALLY DO THINK..... It helps to lift our spirits and remind us what our Nation is all about!!

This speech is no different than our own President addressing our Nation.

Yes the Iraq's speech "spews" of propaganda and hatred....... but it was not posted for that reason...... or to spread more.........

I listen to our Presidential speeches for their content, I also listen or read speeches made by France, Russia, and English Heads of State.

Some Nations are "known" for propaganda speeches, even our own nation has spread propaganda during war times.......

I found the speech to be very interesting, and it enlightened me some on how some Iraq's feel, the determination, and how their leaders guide and motivate them.... Former Iraqi leaders are KNOWN for thier brazen statements. It is done to "incite" their public, whether it be right or wrong!

I found nothing objectionable about this posting here in the General Talk section under political discussions.

Many of us do not have the opportunity to read or hear these speeches from other Nations. I found it very interesting and informative regarding the new Iraqi leader and how he as a leader comes across to his Nation.

Minny

[HRx]

Well, while this is delving deeper into politics than I like to engage in on this type of Web forum, I'd like to point out it does stray away from the subject originally at hand that I and Filingonmyown commented on from perla1. I stand by my statement that perla1 made a promotion of hate with that post. I'm a little perplexed that propaganda has even remained here up to this point, but so be it if you want it here......

You and Filingonmyown are entitled to your feelings about the post. That post was read by more than one moderator. The post is more provactive, that hatefull. Is the post supposed to be removed because it isn't pro-American? Am I suggesting that I support the comments, and thoughts, of course not. Am I supporting hate? of course not. Would you cry hate, take, that down, if it were reported on Foxnews, or CNN??? Of course you wouldn't!!

[Minnymouth]

Regarding the draft issue,

At the present time our Nation is protected by a "voluntary" military made up of proud, willing individuals who are dedicated to defending and keeping our nation free and to help other nations that want the same freedoms also.

HOW LUCKY WE ARE that these proud men and women "sacrifice" so much for you and I!!!

1. They defend our Nation every day to protect what we all believe in.
2. They fight our battles on foreign soil so that the battle is not in our
back yard.
3. They leave behind their families for long periods of time, leaving worries
behind, and miss watching their children grow.
4. Many loose their limbs, are badly injured, and too often they die. Battle
scars often do not go away, mentally or physically.

Yes, it is a volunteer force, and they know what their job is!!!!!

The choice was THEIRS.......... BUT THEY DO IT FOR ME, YOU AND THEIR OWN FAMILIES.......

When the time comes that we have no volunteer military, or there is a shortage of military personnel to defend our Nation. There has to be
"in place" a way to continue the protection of our Nation. Thus enters the "draft"...........

IF AND WHEN THE TIME EVER CAME, "EVERY" man and woman, every father and son, mother and daughter of legal age should be "willing to take up arms" and defend our great Nation.

IF WE WANT TO REAP THE BOUNTY OF THIS NATION, WE SHOULD BE WILLING TO "FIGHT FOR IT AND ALL OUR NATION STANDS FOR"!!!!!!

Nothing is free in this world, everything has a "price tag" on it........... either a $$ value or "human life" value on it..

The freedoms we all enjoy now were at the expense of someone else's life in the past - that BELIEVED in our freedoms.

A man will pick up a gun and go to battle to protect his family and all that he believes in, not knowing the outcome of his efforts. He will give his life for his country, family, and unknown strangers. What a "gift" he gives!

For those that feel that the draft is "unnecessary" or "unwanted" how many of you would "volunteer" if it meant defending this Nation or would you want someone else to carry the burden and fight the battle for you???

No one wants to go to war, and watch soldiers die in battle, the sons and daughters of our own families and friends.

We as a Nation have to stand "together" to defend our borders and what we believe in.

We know not what the future holds in store for us? Some day we all may be standing side by side defending this Nation and what we believe in!!!

Would I take up arms and fight to protect my home, family, friends and even strangers against an invasion. YOU BET I WOULD......and they would have to kill me to get past me.........

I would do whatever it took to protect my rights, my freedoms, my homeland, and the right to be called an American.

If I won't fight for my Nation and the freedoms it allows me, WHO WILL.............?????

Someday, there may not be a "volunteer military"....... then what will you do?

My thoughts........

[FilingOnMyOwn]

That post is promotion of hate...not political discussion!

You hit the nail on the head and that mirrors my view.

That poster came here to post that one thing, and is most likely going around spamming that crap across many many different forums.

[HRx]

Did the poster post this as spam? Absolutely, but is it hate? Not really, is it provacative, yes? But again, this is a political forum. And if you aren't prepared to read, and dialouge about views, opinions, ideas, etc that are different than yours, than do not post, or read the posts made in this forum! Politics, and religion can be a sensative topic for most people, because they're so steadfast behind thier own personal views. All political topics are welcome, for as long as they don't promote threats of harm to anyone---so basically as long as the contents in this thread are compliant with forum rules then post your thoughts, so we can dialouge.

[Credit Hater]

Did the poster post this as spam? Absolutely, but is it hate? Not really, is it provacative, yes? But again, this is a political forum. And if you aren't prepared to read, and dialouge about views, opinions, ideas, etc that are different than yours, than do not post, or read the posts made in this forum! Politics, and religion can be a sensative topic for most people, because they're so steadfast behind thier own personal views. All political topics are welcome, for as long as they don't promote threats of harm to anyone---so basically as long as the contents in this thread are compliant with forum rules then post your thoughts, so we can dialouge.

I am prepared, thats why I responded. I was sharing my opinion. It's nothing against you HRx, I was just surprised like Filing was about a terrorist's speech being allowed here (and I actually don't read too many posts in political discussion, but I read that one since the link of it getting moved was still in general discussion.)

Is there any agreement from you that al-qaeda are terrorists who target innocent civilian lives? You said "All political topics are welcome, for as long as they don't promote threats of harm to anyone".....hence the reason behind my response. Like I said before, if you want it here, so be it....I'm not taking it personal and was engaging in discussion about it.

[Minnymouth]

My response regarding al-aqaeda is they are terrorists whose aim is to distrupt the new Iraqi government. If it involves killing Iraqi civillians then so be it as far as they are concerned. I do not feel that it is totally only Sunni or Shite militia...... I believe it is a "throw-off" of Saddam's defeated army mixed with militia from Syria, Iran, etc.... if the truth was known there are probably also Hezballah (can't spell) mixed in.

Al-qaeda is not a religious organization, though they might like to claim to be!!! The Muslim religion is a deep, quiet, religious faith. Their whole way of life is religion based. I don't believe their Koran teaching teaches their children to kill off their families and neighbors along with their enemies.

Al-qaeda says their agenda is to wipe out Americans and drive us from their land.

If and when we leave Iraq there will be a civil war..... between the Sunni, Shite, Kurds, and Al-qaeda as to who is going to be in control of the Nation.

Our leaving won't prevent a civil war, but our staying there temporarily might prevent it.

It is very interesting to sit back and observe what each sector says...... the Sunni with their opinion, the Shites theirs, how the Kurds feel, and then what Al-qaeda says they are going to do.

Three sectors trying to establish peace in their newly freed Nation and Al-qaeda trying to disrupte it all.

Will there ever be peace in Iraq? - I doubt it......
Will al-qaeda ever be defeated? - I sure hope so....
Can Sunni, Shite, Kurd, all live together in a Nation that believes in the Muslum religion? If they all really want too..... if that "desire" is strong enough to survive the battles.

The "power struggle" for Iraq is going full force!!!!!

[FilingOnMyOwn]

I understand now. Spam is allowed as long as its considered 'political discussion'

[lrprn]

I understand now. Spam is allowed as long as its considered 'political discussion'

It's not about spam, FOMO - it's about awareness of propaganda weapons that are being using against us.

As the Chinese philosopher, Sun Tzu, said over a thousand years ago...."If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the results of a hundred battles." Or if you prefer...."Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." - Napoleon Bonaparte

[HRx]

Now that this "issue" has been clarified..., and everyone that wanted to comment on the post---has. Let's carry on with the political discussion. As pretty much common-knowledge, the war in Iraq is a very divided war. I think it's important, for Westerners to have the choice/right to hear/read the ideas/opinions of the various Easterner's. That the problem with our media, it so filtered/censored! We're basically only hearing what the government/media wants us to hear, know, and understand about the war in Iraq--the objective of this stronghold is elementary. It's designed to generate American support of the war, and to create a fear, dislike, animosity towards our "enemies"! This hasn't done a thing but create, propaganda towards Middle-Easter people, and the Muslims! This sort of propaganda was put upon the Japanese a few decades ago! And it was done using this same tactic too. How can Americans form intelligent choices/decisions/opinions about the war if they are only getting half of the facts!!!???