Massive default is best way to fix the economy

[moe]

Really, I am so curious about this. Why did this happen?

Is it really outsourcing?

So it is the loss of manufacturing jobs?

I know some professional jobs have moved overseas. Was it really enough to make such a difference?

Has the decline of unions played a role?

I guess I think economies can really shift and change and develop--but you have to have infrastructure and you have to have education and you have to have people willing to take risks and having hope for the future and all that...and that's just what you don't have right now.

Health care costs are a drain. I don't get why there is this sudden attack on education. Isn't that how we got to the prosperous economy in the first place? The innovation and development and growth?

This is all just me in my armchair. I wish I knew the real answer. I am burning with curiosity.

Is there some book by (a) a trained economist with a PhD that's (b) accessible with proof and real data that explains all this?

One thing I find interesting: We have lost wealth but as a country, most people are basically OK. Try going to a really poor place to see not OK. But we're AT EACH OTHER'S THROATS. It's really interesting...It's the expectations that is making us crazy.

My gut feeling is this is produced by inequality and insecurity. That's where a social safety net would be useful, as people would be less terrified and then less angry. Things seem like they are getting very crazy all in the quest to conceal the actual situation from people. But they feel it--they feel the situation--instead of facing it and thinking about it in a reasonable way, there is much lashing out. This seems very dangerous to me.

It's so much worse to have reduced options here in the US because then you become really a nonentity. See how many people on this board are OK without means when they simplify their lives? But they are willing to give up on some illusions. Some people have nothing but illusions to fall back on.

I worry more about the political climate than the economic one, because we can survive the economic problem if we work together--but our politics is preventing that.

[Fallonedward]

I'm so glad we filed when we did, as its becoming more and more common for friends in our middle class neighborhood to mention to us that they either just declared or are going to. When you out of work and no prospects are in the future and after trying and trying, most have no choice but to declare...

[andy158]

Less the 20% of the jobs in this country are true manufacturing jobs. Anything that requires labor as a major source of the overall cost is outsourced to a cheap labor country for the sake of profit. Now even lower paying jobs are outsourced because ther is no liability on the employer. Developing third world nations don't pay worker comp insurance, health insurnace, provide benefits of much significance, get paid holidays, sick time, etc. Hum, all the things unions in this country fought for in the past hundred years for the middle class wage earner.

As far as a "recovery" only the people with their heads in the sand believe that. This weeks unemployment figures are over the 400k mark again an continues above 9%. This does not happen in a recovery. It is all smoke and mirrors folks. If you preach long enough the sheeple will believe.

[IamOld]

Moe I think I won't hold back with my answers:

a) attack on education - an uneducated population with just enough skills to service the elites is EASY to control (through FEAR) and,

b) a population always on the economic edge will be too scared and exhausted to make trouble - hence the destruction of unions

c) nations that do well (or reasonably well) have a strong social safety net, make "stuff," and educate their people.

Those that don't...

Really, I am so curious about this. Why did this happen?

Is it really outsourcing?

So it is the loss of manufacturing jobs?

I know some professional jobs have moved overseas. Was it really enough to make such a difference?

Has the decline of unions played a role?

I guess I think economies can really shift and change and develop--but you have to have infrastructure and you have to have education and you have to have people willing to take risks and having hope for the future and all that...and that's just what you don't have right now.

Health care costs are a drain. I don't get why there is this sudden attack on education. Isn't that how we got to the prosperous economy in the first place? The innovation and development and growth?

This is all just me in my armchair. I wish I knew the real answer. I am burning with curiosity.

Is there some book by (a) a trained economist with a PhD that's (b) accessible with proof and real data that explains all this?

One thing I find interesting: We have lost wealth but as a country, most people are basically OK. Try going to a really poor place to see not OK. But we're AT EACH OTHER'S THROATS. It's really interesting...It's the expectations that is making us crazy.

My gut feeling is this is produced by inequality and insecurity. That's where a social safety net would be useful, as people would be less terrified and then less angry. Things seem like they are getting very crazy all in the quest to conceal the actual situation from people. But they feel it--they feel the situation--instead of facing it and thinking about it in a reasonable way, there is much lashing out. This seems very dangerous to me.

It's so much worse to have reduced options here in the US because then you become really a nonentity. See how many people on this board are OK without means when they simplify their lives? But they are willing to give up on some illusions. Some people have nothing but illusions to fall back on.

I worry more about the political climate than the economic one, because we can survive the economic problem if we work together--but our politics is preventing that.

[IamOld]

Exactly. Look - change ultimately was - the tipping point against the apartheid regime in South Africa picked up steam when their fascist government started attacking the "liberal" while English speaking middle-class. Until - what's left of - the middle class feels truly threatened - that is the SAME people who give us the "news" on TV and elsewhere...change may not come...

Less the 20% of the jobs in this country are true manufacturing jobs. Anything that requires labor as a major source of the overall cost is outsourced to a cheap labor country for the sake of profit. Now even lower paying jobs are outsourced because ther is no liability on the employer. Developing third world nations don't pay worker comp insurance, health insurnace, provide benefits of much signifance, get paid holidays, sick time, etc. Hum, all the things unions in this country fought for in the past hundred years for the middle class wage earner.

As far as a "recovery" only the people with their heads in the sand believe that. This weeks unemployment figures are over the 400k mark again an continues above 9%. This does not happen in a recovery. It is all smoke and mirrors folks. If you preach long enough the sheeple will believe.

[Fallonedward]

Less the 20% of the jobs in this country are true manufacturing jobs. Anything that requires labor as a major source of the overall cost is outsourced to a cheap labor country for the sake of profit. Now even lower paying jobs are outsourced because ther is no liability on the employer. Developing third world nations don't pay worker comp insurance, health insurnace, provide benefits of much significance, get paid holidays, sick time, etc. Hum, all the things unions in this country fought for in the past hundred years for the middle class wage earner.

As far as a "recovery" only the people with their heads in the sand believe that. This weeks unemployment figures are over the 400k mark again an continues above 9%. This does not happen in a recovery. It is all smoke and mirrors folks. If you preach long enough the sheeple will believe.

My last company outsourced the Accounting, Human Resources, and Engineering departments. They shed 50,000 employees and now that same company 5 years later is going out of business.

This company has no accurate way to track their finances since their finance team was outsourced to India yet the executive team decided to remain in the USA and was unable to correct a $7M imbalance on the books that was unable to be corrected due to the unability to think outside the box. Since the ability to be intuitive is unable to be part of a step by step written process. The problem grew and grew until it became $7M. Their Engineering team that was outsourced to China had a 62% design error rate that could never be contained. The Human Resource Group that was outsourced to Hungary conducted exit interviews via conference calls and had difficulty following US laws.

[IamOld]

I want to say I'm surprised but no...the whole outsourcing HR - that's just plain idiotic...I think I know what the company is - but it's not idiotic when you're the economic elite that sucks the living daylights out of the working class...one wonders where they'll go when there's nothing left to devour here.

My last company outsourced the Accounting, Human Resources, and Engineering departments. They shed 50,000 employees and now that same company 5 years later is going out of business.

This company has no accurate way to track their finances since their finance team was outsourced to India yet the executive team decided to remain in the USA and was unable to correct a $7M imbalance on the books that was unable to be corrected due to the unability to think outside the box. Since the ability to be intuitive is unable to be part of a step by step written process. The problem grew and grew until it became $7M. Their Engineering team that was outsourced to China had a 62% design error rate that could never be contained. The Human Resource Group that was outsourced to Hungary conducted exit interviews via conference calls and had difficulty following US laws.

[bcohen]

I give up. Is the company Motorola?

[Fallonedward]

I want to say I'm surprised but no...the whole outsourcing HR - that's just plain idiotic...I think I know what the company is - but it's not idiotic when you're the economic elite that sucks the living daylights out of the working class...one wonders where they'll go when there's nothing left to devour here.

The awesome thing is the the CEO, CFO, CIO, COO were all able to walk away prior to the company going out of business with bonus money in the millions. Its such a great thing to put a company and 50,000 employees out of work and walk away a millionaire.

[JackBondLove]

I think we need to start taxing the wealthy at confiscatory levels to fund a massive jobs program and welfare state.

[frogger]

The awesome thing is the the CEO, CFO, CIO, COO were all able to walk away prior to the company going out of business with bonus money in the millions. Its such a great thing to put a company and 50,000 employees out of work and walk away a millionaire.

That's the key to what is happening in business and politics period. You have a few that are walking away with lots and lots of money. Whether it's private business or government, the select few are getting rich while destroying the country.

Terms like graft and corruption come to mind. (Along with treason)

[jacko]

The American worker and middle class has slit their own throats for allowing this to happen.

That's the key to what is happening in business and politics period. You have a few that are walking away with lots and lots of money. Whether it's private business or government, the select few are getting rich while destroying the country.

Terms like graft and corruption come to mind. (Along with treason)

[IamOld]

The American worker and middle class has slit their own throats for allowing this to happen.

Right Jacko - because the "low information" voter is more "concerned" about who can marry whom, the "commies" - oh no more commies - sorry - whomever, than the people who are robbing them/us blind.

[jacko]

Don't forget guns and religion to the mix. Quite frankly, this class do not want to improve their lives, so no vocational infrastructure which is widespread in Germany. Being a Yokel is a badge of honor as well as being anti progress and gov't.

Right Jacko - because the "low information" voter is more "concerned" about who can marry whom, the "commies" - oh no more commies - sorry - whomever, than the people who are robbing them/us blind.

[shark66]

Don't forget guns and religion to the mix. .

Guns ARE my religion...

Good luck to us all.