How Debt Can Destroy a Budding Relationship

[keepinitreal]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/04/your-money/04money.html

[banca rotta]

WOW my head is still spinning. Just trying to imagine 170k or 250k in debt that can never be discharged. This will ruin a new relationship for certain.

This is a bad situation knowing that this is the future of most young couples.

Sometimes I almost wish for a brief hyperinflation. It will give folks like these as well as folks losing their home a window to pay off these debts.

[MSbklawyer]

She's far from alone. I have clients all the time who have high 5 figures in student loans. And to be perfectly frank, a good many of them had no business being anywhere near a college campus. Almost invariably, they were pursuing a degree in something like "general business" or "fashion merchandising" or "community relations". Probably half of them never finished the degree requirements. The ones who did seem to be no better off for it; they're just as unemployed or minimally employed as the ones who didn't.

Kids who barely made it through high school are allowed to go into debt 30, 40, 50 thousand dollars to pursue a degree that would be all but worthless from a wage-earning standpoint even if they had earned it with honors, which they didn't. Not even close.

I don't know who's driving this ship, or what they're thinking, or even IF they're thinking. But it's yet another debt burden that's going to fall at the feet of the taxpayer and a lot of people are going to be in a shocked sense of disbelief when the magnitude of the debt comes to light. "We did what?!?!", they'll say. Republicans will blame democrats, democrats will blame republicans, congress will blame the president and the president will blame congress.


But, politically speaking, how do we end this? Like Social Security, if a politician proposes to end the student loan program, or in any way seriously curtail it, he's crucified as an elitist; as being for the rich and against the poor and; should someone of color be adversely affected by the fiscal discipline he proposes, then he'll be called the dreaded "R" word.

I am not optimistic about our country's future. I wish I didn't have to say that, but I'm not. It looks like the only way that this will ever end is when the inevitable train wreck comes and the government has to quit giving away money because it has no more to give away and can't find anyone else to borrow it from.

[catleg]

"I love her, just not 170k worth."

[backtoschool]

"I love her, just not 170k worth."

That's pretty much what it boils down to. If money is more important to someone than love, then they are free to end an engagement and look elsewhere...

As a woman who has over $100k in non-discharged student loans, I can honestly say that it has not affected my love life. (yet) I am able to support myself and willing to sign a prenup if it makes sense to do so, although I probably would not be involved with anyone who loved money more than me....

Signing the prenup would be more about financial independence for me, and not feeling beholden to my partner.

Even though I have always made pretty good money, I have always been involved with men that made a lot more than me. I don't want their money. But I also don't want them putting a price tag on our love. It's a difficult situation and the only way out of it for me is for me to always try to keep my finances separate.

[backtoschool]

Here is an interesting link from my favorite finance blog (one of the top business blogs out there....) on how we got to the point where student loan debt now exceeds credit card debt. You have to click on the picture to enlarge it. It's a great chart.

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/student-loan-scheme.jpg

[AngelinaCatHub]

That's pretty much what it boils down to. If money is more important to someone than love, then they are free to end an engagement and look elsewhere...

As a woman who has over $100k in non-discharged student loans, I can honestly say that it has not affected my love life. (yet) I am able to support myself and willing to sign a prenup if it makes sense to do so, although I probably would not be involved with anyone who loved money more than me....

Signing the prenup would be more about financial independence for me, and not feeling beholden to my partner.

Even though I have always made pretty good money, I have always been involved with men that made a lot more than me. I don't want their money. But I also don't want them putting a price tag on our love. It's a difficult situation and the only way out of it for me is for me to always try to keep my finances separate.

I tend to agree with you in that the romantic/emotional part of it is real. However, if this man saw more to this such as, this enormous debt is a signal of underlying problems of instability and lack of control. Depending on what she was studying, and the marketability of this. I know of many who got student loans, did not go to school and spent it on such things as high life and in one case, 'nose candy'.

Not knowing the circumstances, it could have some underlying situations beyond love over money or money over love. 'Hub

[AngelinaCatHub]

She's far from alone. I have clients all the time who have high 5 figures in student loans. And to be perfectly frank, a good many of them had no business being anywhere near a college campus. Almost invariably, they were pursuing a degree in something like "general business" or "fashion merchandising" or "community relations". Probably half of them never finished the degree requirements. The ones who did seem to be no better off for it; they're just as unemployed or minimally employed as the ones who didn't.

Kids who barely made it through high school are allowed to go into debt 30, 40, 50 thousand dollars to pursue a degree that would be all but worthless from a wage-earning standpoint even if they had earned it with honors, which they didn't. Not even close.

I don't know who's driving this ship, or what they're thinking, or even IF they're thinking. But it's yet another debt burden that's going to fall at the feet of the taxpayer and a lot of people are going to be in a shocked sense of disbelief when the magnitude of the debt comes to light. "We did what?!?!", they'll say. Republicans will blame democrats, democrats will blame republicans, congress will blame the president and the president will blame congress.


But, politically speaking, how do we end this? Like Social Security, if a politician proposes to end the student loan program, or in any way seriously curtail it, he's crucified as an elitist; as being for the rich and against the poor and; should someone of color be adversely affected by the fiscal discipline he proposes, then he'll be called the dreaded "R" word.

I am not optimistic about our country's future. I wish I didn't have to say that, but I'm not. It looks like the only way that this will ever end is when the inevitable train wreck comes and the government has to quit giving away money because it has no more to give away and can't find anyone else to borrow it from.

Clap, Clap, Clap. Could not be truer, and I too see the 90 mile an hour going down the dead ended street. 'Hub

[banca rotta]

Clap, Clap, Clap. Could not be truer, and I too see the 90 mile an hour going down the dead ended street. 'Hub

That's why I switched on my giant airbag and can only hope it opens up and keeps myself and family safe.

[backtoschool]

I tend to agree with you in that the romantic/emotional part of it is real. However, if this man saw more to this such as, this enormous debt is a signal of underlying problems of instability and lack of control. Depending on what she was studying, and the marketability of this. I know of many who got student loans, did not go to school and spent it on such things as high life and in one case, 'nose candy'.

Not knowing the circumstances, it could have some underlying situations beyond love over money or money over love. 'Hub

The man is free to make any decisions he sees fit to make. It is his right to fall out of love with someone based on their ltv percentage as a human being. He can choose to never go on a date with a woman that has a ltv lower than 110%, or even 100%. Hopefully he has a good algorithm for determining ltv.

It is also the right of the woman to study whatever subject she wants to whether it is marketable or not and take on the debt to pay for those studies, as long as she realizes that certain conservative types may not "love" her if she has debt.

Hopefully both of them will find happiness with someone who is more in sync with their respective values.

[onwards]

Couple comments:

1) wow, break off an engagement over $70K in student loan debt or so? she should be glad he did. Better to see his inability to handle difficult or tricky circumstances now than when kids are involved.

2) I disagree STRONGLY with Ms. Tidwell. I'm sorry, but if you can't afford a $250K school - DON'T GO TO ONE. It is EXACTLY like going out and shopping, except for some reason we have decided as a society this one's "OK". Well, it isn't. There is no reason why she couldn't go to a state university and get a good, solid education for a tenth of the cost.

EDIT: actually, it's WORSE than shopping now I think about it, because student loans are not discharge-able :-)

[andy158]

With student loan debt like that over your head from the get go, you would be retired and still paying it off! My niece has done something similar with a worthless buisness degree and $75k in student loan debt. She works at a retail store making $18k a year!

People are free to make choices to better themselves, but they have to look at the whole picture and ask themselves is it worth it? I know it sounds harsh, but masssive debt at a young age is a precursor to serious financial problems in the future.

[backtoschool]

With student loan debt like that over your head from the get go, you would be retired and still paying it off! My niece has done something similar with a worthless buisness degree and $75k in student loan debt. She works at a retail store making $18k a year!

People are free to make choices to better themselves, but they have to look at the whole picture and ask themselves is it worth it? I know it sounds harsh, but masssive debt at a young age is a precursor to serious financial problems in the future.

I have an undergraduate degree from a very good university and a graduate degree from Wharton to show for my loans. I didn't have to take all the loans, but I chose to at the time and I am not going to cry about the past now, as it is pointless. My loans doubled by the way when I went into default (I worked in Europe for three years after grad school and did not deal with the loans then....) I do not regret going to the schools that I went to, in fact I am glad I went to them. I have had a good career because of my degrees, it just wasn't a career that fit with my personal values.

I went back to school to try to figure out a way to apply my talents towards growth and renewal, both at the personal level and at the micro-economic level. I am still searching....but at least I don't wake up every morning hating myself for what I do for a living like I used to before I changed careers and industries....

[nc73]

Couple comments:

1) wow, break off an engagement over $70K in student loan debt or so? she should be glad he did. Better to see his inability to handle difficult or tricky circumstances now than when kids are involved.

2) I disagree STRONGLY with Ms. Tidwell. I'm sorry, but if you can't afford a $250K school - DON'T GO TO ONE. It is EXACTLY like going out and shopping, except for some reason we have decided as a society this one's "OK". Well, it isn't. There is no reason why she couldn't go to a state university and get a good, solid education for a tenth of the cost.

EDIT: actually, it's WORSE than shopping now I think about it, because student loans are not discharge-able :-)

It was actually 170k in student loans. I'd think twice before marrying someone that irresponsible. Just because it's for education doesn't mean you shouldn't think about the amount you borrowed. Who wants to go into a marriage having to worry about paying off that much debt, and it can't even be discharged in bk.

I agree with number 2.

[onwards]

It was actually 170k in student loans. I'd think twice before marrying someone that irresponsible. Just because it's for education doesn't mean you shouldn't think about the amount you borrowed. Who wants to go into a marriage having to worry about paying off that much debt, and it can't even be discharged in bk.

I was referring to the difference between the $100K that WAS disclosed, and the actual amount. And I have to disagree with the general sentiment - $170K is not that much money if you intend to use it and you're making the commensurate income for that level of student loan debt (which I would normally expect to be well in the 6-figures a few years in). It's that she did it for a degree in *photography*, without even it being her main career (it says x-ray tech), that is appalling to me.