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    Seven lean years: No recovery till 2016

    Aug. 31, 2010

    Summer of recovery? Dead. How dead? Remember Genesis? The Seven Lean Years? Add seven years to the handoff from Bush to Obama in early 2009 and you get no recovery till 2016. Get it? No recovery till the end of Obama's second term, assuming he's reelected -- a big if.

    "The idea behind 'seven lean years' is that it is unrealistic to expect to overcome the several problems facing most developed countries, including the U.S., in fewer than several years." That's Jeremy Grantham talking; he's responsible for investing $100 billion in the next seven lean years. And like the biblical Joseph, whose life was on the line while interpreting dreams for the Egyptian pharaoh, Grantham can't afford mistakes.
    Fed sees limited policy options

    Unlike Greenspan years, central bank can no longer talk investors into changing sentiment, Bob O'Brien suggests.

    In his recent newsletter, "Seven Lean Years Revisited," Grantham tells us why expecting a summer of recovery was unrealistic, why America must prepare for a long recovery. Grantham details 10 reasons: "The negatives that are likely to hamper the global developed economy." Sorry, but this recovery will take till 2016.

    But should you believe Grantham? Yes. First: Like Joseph, Grantham's earlier forecasts were dead on. About two years before Wall Street's 2008 meltdown Grantham saw: "The First Truly Global Bubble: From Indian antiquities to modern Chinese art; from land in Panama to Mayfair; from forestry, infrastructure, and the junkiest bonds to mundane blue chips; it's bubble time. ... The bursting of the bubble will be across all countries and all assets ... no similar global event has occurred before."

    Second: The Motley Fools' Matt Argersinger went back to the dot-com crash of 2000: Grantham "looked out 10 years and predicted the Dow Jones Industrial Average would underperform cash." Bull's-eye: The Dow peaked near 14,000 in late 2007; it's now around 10,000. Factor in inflation: Wall Street's lost 20% of your retirement since 2000. Yes, Wall Street's a big loser.

    Third: What's ahead for the seven lean years? Wall Street will keep losing. Argersinger: "Grantham predicts below-average economic growth, anemic corporate-profit margins, and other severe obstacles for the stock market. Over the next seven years ... U.S. stocks as a group will deliver annualized real returns between 1.1% and 2.9%. That's less than you might get putting your money in a CD."

    Warning: You'd be a fool to trust your money with Wall Street during the seven lean years till 2016. Another 20% will vanish.

    Fourth: Why will Wall Street kill the recovery, keep driving us deeper into a ditch till 2016? Last year Grantham asked: "Why is it that several dozen people saw this crisis coming for years? It seemed so inevitable and so merciless, and yet the bosses of Merrill Lynch and Citi, even Treasury Secretary [Henry] Paulson and Fed Chairman [Ben] Bernanke, none of them seemed to see it coming." The Pharaoh listened to Joseph. Our leaders are deaf.
    Another Black Swan will lengthen a seven-lean-years recovery

    Grantham says today's leaders "running major-league companies are real organization-management types who focus on what they are doing this quarter or this annual budget. They're impatient, focused on the present."

    However, planning for the future "requires more people with a historical perspective who are more thoughtful and more right-brained, but we end up with an army of left-brained immediate doers. So it's more or less guaranteed that every time we get an outlying, obscure event that has never happened before in history, they are always going to miss it."

    Get it? It is guaranteed that our Wall Street and Washington leaders will miss the next Black Swan catastrophe. No matter how big, how many warnings. Just like they did in 2008. They are guaranteed to fail. That's tragic. Not only will America's recovery take at least seven lean years but when another meltdown does occur our leaders will miss it again. And another massive meltdown on top of a long seven-lean-years recovery will likely drag out the recovery past 2020!

    So here's my Reader's Digest version of Grantham's 10 handicaps that will "hamper the global developed economy, drag it out for seven lean years," forcing Americans into a painfully long, game-changing period of austerity and civil unrest. You can read his original at GMO.com:
    1. Too much consumer debt; increased savings, spending drops

    "We've stopped adding consumer debt, but the improvement is minimal. It would take at least seven years of steady reduction to reach a more normal level. Anything more rapid than that would make it nearly impossible for the economy to grow. More stimulus adds government debt, already a problem. But debt reduction in a fragile economy runs the risk of causing a severe economic decline. This dilemma may prove to be the central economic policy choice of our time. Not an easy choice. And no way that this process will be pleasant or quick."
    2. Banks off-loaded trillions of toxic debt, increasing federal debt

    "The most frightening aspect of the seven-lean-year scenario is that dangerously excessive financial system debt was moved across, with additions, to become dangerously excessive government debt, with levels of debt-to-GDP not seen outside wartime. The cure seems more like a stay of execution."
    3. Stimulus failing, housing crashed, no appreciation, confidence lost

    "The artificial lift to consumers' confidence from steadily rising house prices is long gone, unlikely to return soon, reducing our confidence in the nest eggs we thought we could count on for retirement. Further house-prices declines are more than a 50/50 bet. No more shot in the arm from construction. Stock prices are stagnant. These changed attitudes will last for years."
    4. Banks undercapitalized, overleveraged; more trouble ahead

    "Wall Street may have passed its point of maximum stress, but very bad things may lie ahead in Europe. Leverage and the chances of further write-downs leave banks undercapitalized, reluctant to lend. Unhealthy growth in America's GDP caused by previous rapid increases in the size of the financial sector has also disappeared, hopefully will stay gone."
    5. State/local governments squeezed, tax revenues down 30%

    "Runaway costs: average salaries and pensions went far above private sector in 15 years, now run into the brick wall of reduced taxes. Real estate taxes are down over 30%, unlikely to bounce back soon. The legal need to stay balanced means painful cost-cutting, putting pressure on an economy with few stimulus options left. A double dip would make it worse."
    6. High unemployment; few tricks left to stimulate jobs

    "Unemployment is high, suffering from the loss of kickers related to asset bubbles. The economy appears to have an oddly hard time producing enough jobs to get ahead of the natural yearly increases in the work force. Consumer confidence and corporate investing suffer."
    7. America's trade imbalances are killing the dollar, our economy

    "America must stop running large trade imbalances, they destabilize the economy. In a world growing nervous about the quality of sovereign debt, these debt levels have exploded. Adding new foreign debts adds risk and doubts to the system, threatening the dollar. Just as adding surpluses threatens the Chinese. The trick, though, is to reduce these imbalances so that the process does not reduce global growth. Rebalancing will not be quick, easy, or painless."
    8. European governments crashing; incompetent management

    "Europe suffers from incompetent management. Spain, Greece, Portugal, Ireland, and Italy allowed local competitiveness of manufactured goods to become 20% or more uncompetitive with Germany. The banking crisis was not the problem, so it'll never be easy to solve with a fixed currency. Unfortunately, Europe's problems are now part of America's seven lean years, guaranteeing slower than normal GDP growth and a long workout period."
    9. Global loss of confidence in all currencies, including the dollar

    "Rising levels of sovereign debt and problems facing the euro bloc and Japan are creating a loss of confidence in faith-based currencies. The world economy is a fragile system that will increasingly limit governments' choices in dealing with low growth and excessive credit."
    10. Aging populations; rising Medicare, Social Security costs

    "Possibly most important of all, widespread overcommitments to pensions and health benefits is a long-term problem overlapping with the seven-year workout, making the 'seven lean years' even tougher. Developed nations are aging, need more medical attention. Treatment costs are increasing, and are hard to limit or ration. No choice, hunker down, wait for a crisis."

    Bottom line: America's facing seven lean years, a long, game-changing, painful recovery till 2016. But let's end on that positive note the Motley Fool's Argersinger promises: In spite of the dark forecast, there's a "silver lining, the saving grace Grantham calls it. The stock market might turn out to be a loser, but that won't be the case for 'high-quality' U.S. stocks. Grantham thinks elite stocks are poised to return as much as 10% a year or better."

    Argersinger put it this way: "Grantham doesn't detail what he means, but I think it's safe to assume he's talking about large companies that have strong balance sheets, sustainable competitive advantages, stable or growing profit margins, and opportunities for growth," even in "seven lean years."

    He picks seven stocks "that might make Grantham's cut." All are based on "the following criteria: Large-cap stock, at least $20 billion in market size; high profitability, an average operating margin of 15% or higher over the past five years; strong balance sheet, a debt-to-equity ratio of less than 50%; a dividend, not necessarily for yield but as a measure of financial strength." Solid picking criteria.

    The seven are: Carnival (NYSE:CCL) , Johnson & Johnson (NYSE:JNJ) , Microsoft (NASDAQ:MSFT) , Southern Copper (NYSE:SCCO) , Thomson Reuters (NYSE:TRI) , Travelers (NYSE:TRV) and Walt Disney (NYSEIS) .

    The seven are a "nice start on a Grantham-style portfolio, one that should, if you believe Grantham, outperform big time" during the next "seven lean years," America's painful "New Age of Austerity and Civil Unrest," which will last till 2016, maybe longer.

    Last edited by Flamingo; 09-03-2010, 08:23 AM. Reason: Formatting
    filed chapter 13..confirmed...converted to chapter 7...DISCHARGED!

    #2
    Interesting article. I agree with most of it as you saw in my posts in the hyper-inflation thread. I do not agree with the stock picks that were picked to succeed however. Disney is about as over-priced as entertainment gets, and while their movies might do well, their resorts will suffer.

    Microsoft hasn't risen in literally years, and has no ideas of how to beat Google. I have no idea why that stock is on the list.

    And if people can not pay their bills, I am not seeing how they will afford Cruises. I do not think Carnival is a good pick either.

    I never listen to stock pickers, they always are in bed in some dubious way with the stocks they pick.
    You can't take a picture of this. It's already gone. ~~Nate, Six Feet Under

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by backtoschool View Post
      Interesting article. I agree with most of it as you saw in my posts in the hyper-inflation thread. I do not agree with the stock picks that were picked to succeed however. Disney is about as over-priced as entertainment gets, and while their movies might do well, their resorts will suffer.

      Microsoft hasn't risen in literally years, and has no ideas of how to beat Google. I have no idea why that stock is on the list.

      And if people can not pay their bills, I am not seeing how they will afford Cruises. I do not think Carnival is a good pick either.

      I never listen to stock pickers, they always are in bed in some dubious way with the stocks they pick.
      so agree with you...

      i always use to say...ONLY put in the stock market what you can afford to THROW OUT TO THE TRASH CAN...which is how much??? better to go to the horse races as far as i'm concerned.

      the only investment i ever believed in...(not any more) were principal protected bonds....now i look back and i'm so happy we got out...let's see now.... we had lent money to:

      ford
      country wide bank
      gm

      and all AAA rated, of course...all at the time paying high interest to us...nice...while protecting your money....and when the bonds were called in early you had nothing to lose since you rec'd your entire principle back.....those days are over....

      forever i think....

      funny... when i was young college student too many years ago....i'm at georgetown university...taking micro economics...we had to draw up a plan for our future, how we plan to retire, what we were going to invest in...blah blah and etc....

      so i turn my paper in and i didn't include social security as part of income in retirement...the professor had a FIT!!!...i told him, that i strongly felt that by the time i was going to be retiring, the system will not be around....he sharply replied NEVER EVER NEVER happen!! i got a D!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      8/4/2008 MAKE SURE AND VISIT Tobee's Blogs! http://www.bkforum.com/blog.php?32727-tobee43 and all are welcome to bk forum's Florida State Questions and Answers on BK http://www.bkforum.com/group.php?groupid=9

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by tobee43 View Post
        funny... when i was young college student too many years ago....i'm at georgetown university...taking micro economics...we had to draw up a plan for our future, how we plan to retire, what we were going to invest in...blah blah and etc....

        so i turn my paper in and i didn't include social security as part of income in retirement...the professor had a FIT!!!...i told him, that i strongly felt that by the time i was going to be retiring, the system will not be around....he sharply replied NEVER EVER NEVER happen!! i got a D!!!!!!!!!!!!!
        And your professor was right. You should have received an F for not understanding the SS funding system and buying into the right-wing fear mongering of social security, something that has been going on since FDR started SS in 1935.

        A bi-partisan committee has already proposed the minor tweaks in the system that will assure full funding of social security for at least the next 75 years. You can read the full report here:

        http://aging.senate.gov/ss/ssreport2010.pdf

        After you have read the entire report, come back and tell me why you are still concerned about your social security benefits.
        “When fascism comes to America, it’ll be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross” — Sinclair Lewis

        Comment


          #5
          Yeah I think the stock picks were a little ridiculous too. But I thought the macro call was worthwhile.
          filed chapter 13..confirmed...converted to chapter 7...DISCHARGED!

          Comment


            #6
            And your professor was right. You should have received an F for not understanding the SS funding system and buying into the right-wing fear mongering of social security, something that has been going on since FDR started SS in 1935.

            A bi-partisan committee has already proposed the minor tweaks in the system that will assure full funding of social security for at least the next 75 years. You can read the full report here:

            http://aging.senate.gov/ss/ssreport2010.pdf
            they're incorrect, one cannot believe everything they read...words are only that...simply words....and we can begin to see the clear signs of failure to the existing system...do you even have a clue where the money actually is suppose to come from?

            the backbones of our young educated people...who not only graduate college and the only thing they have awaiting them...is not a job...but hefty student loans....high interest rates and bleek futures. fdr's "big deal" is really a big deal now! and it wasn't the intention of this social system to support people in their retirements...it was designed to supplement.

            i have done more reading than most people had done in a lifetime on the subject matter...

            i prior to going back to bu to get another degree was a financial analyst for over 25 years, working with many of these big 10's for too many years that i would like to mention. i was known for being conservative in my views and the only person's future i didn't figure correctly was our own! surprise!! JOKES on me!!! (one cannot predict illness or job loss). however, i stick strongly to what i say....the system is failing and will continue until it disappears completely. perhaps not in our lifetimes...but the present system impenetrable to it's path of distruction. extremely scary.... such propaganda ...oh! forgot it's a bi-partisan committee! how could i be so foolish.

            each to it's own...it's what makes the world interesting.
            Last edited by tobee43; 09-03-2010, 11:33 AM.
            8/4/2008 MAKE SURE AND VISIT Tobee's Blogs! http://www.bkforum.com/blog.php?32727-tobee43 and all are welcome to bk forum's Florida State Questions and Answers on BK http://www.bkforum.com/group.php?groupid=9

            Comment


              #7
              phewwwww....after that win...i'm going to disneyland!!

              what's it tradin at...like 33 LOL!! my visit may make it go up to 35!!

              no cat...i'm not liking those pixs either...but the funny part is i just changed insurance co. yesterday and went to travelers!! up a point!!!
              Last edited by tobee43; 09-03-2010, 11:52 AM.
              8/4/2008 MAKE SURE AND VISIT Tobee's Blogs! http://www.bkforum.com/blog.php?32727-tobee43 and all are welcome to bk forum's Florida State Questions and Answers on BK http://www.bkforum.com/group.php?groupid=9

              Comment


                #8
                7 years? Boy I hope this is correct. I heard a lot longer. I will take 7 years.
                The essence of freedom is the proper limitation of Government

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by WhatMoney View Post
                  You should have received an F for not understanding the SS funding system and buying into the right-wing fear mongering of social security, something that has been going on since FDR started SS in 1935..
                  What exactly is in the water in Oregon that makes so many of you attack "right wing fear mongers" for everything?

                  I haven't finished the whole pdf report yet, but contrary to what you're implying, there don't appear to be any 'minor little tweaks' as you call it, to make the system sound. ...

                  that is unless you are ok with ss taxes going up and up and up, and benefit age eligibility increasing, and caps being lifted either partially or fully on the maximum 'contribution' (there;s an oxymoron) income level or other so-called 'revenue enhancements'.

                  So, a program that was started in 1930's and was promised to ONLY tax income levels up to $3000 and at only a 2% rate, now taxes income up to $100,000 and the rate is now 15% (for self employed)...
                  will be secured and 'fully funded' by, (drumroll) MORE TAXES.....what a shock!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by WhatMoney View Post
                    And your professor was right. You should have received an F for not understanding the SS funding system and buying into the right-wing fear mongering of social security, something that has been going on since FDR started SS in 1935.

                    A bi-partisan committee has already proposed the minor tweaks in the system that will assure full funding of social security for at least the next 75 years. You can read the full report here:

                    http://aging.senate.gov/ss/ssreport2010.pdf

                    After you have read the entire report, come back and tell me why you are still concerned about your social security benefits.

                    Agreed whatmoney. The good professor is right! Social Security will be around probably forever.

                    I figure that with the real rate of inflation vs.the CPI which is what the "honest" govt uses to measure inflation, the average social security check will probably buy a bag of dog chow. The future senior citizens won't have to worry about their rent going up since tent cities are free of charge for now. This too could change but for now living in a tent is free! Thank goodness for that.


                    This link is more trustworthy then anything that comes from the senate.

                    Chapter 16 (Fuzzy Numbers - Part 1 of 2): Dr. Martenson explores how inflation and GDP are measured, how their measurement has changed over years, and what t...
                    The essence of freedom is the proper limitation of Government

                    Comment


                      #11
                      That is a really excellent video, thanks for posting the link.

                      I've stumbled across Chris Martenson's blog before, but now I have to watch all these videos. :-)
                      filed chapter 13..confirmed...converted to chapter 7...DISCHARGED!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        This series is awesome. Great pick banca rotta. I have read the blog before but hadn't seen the videos.

                        I think it is really important for people to try to sort through fuzzy happy numbers and figure out what is really going on out there so that they can make informed decisions about what to buy when (such as houses, cars, etc...) what to save and how to save it, (is the stock market a good bet, are bonds safe, etc....) and just to get a general feel of where we are heading.

                        We are heading to a lower standard of living for the middle class. (actually we are already there so that is a truism).
                        You can't take a picture of this. It's already gone. ~~Nate, Six Feet Under

                        Comment


                          #13
                          This series is awesome. Great pick banca rotta.
                          ditto!!!!




                          Agreed whatmoney. The good professor is right! Social Security will be around probably forever.

                          I figure that with the real rate of inflation vs.the CPI which is what the "honest" govt uses to measure inflation, the average social security check will probably buy a bag of dog chow. The future senior citizens won't have to worry about their rent going up since tent cities are free of charge for now. This too could change but for now living in a tent is free! Thank goodness for that.


                          This link is more trustworthy then anything that comes from the senate.
                          well banca...as long as you didn't agree with the part that i should have gotten an F!! LOL!!!

                          let me clear something up for the record...i did get an A in the class....of course LOL!!! (this was just a quick note exam).


                          and i fought the battle all alone in those days as well! however, i'm not alone today.

                          to continue to throw money continuously at a system and think it will make it better is just not the way around it...which has historically been the case.

                          the entire system needs to be abolished and restarted from the ground up, if at all. glad i will NOT be around for that adventure.
                          8/4/2008 MAKE SURE AND VISIT Tobee's Blogs! http://www.bkforum.com/blog.php?32727-tobee43 and all are welcome to bk forum's Florida State Questions and Answers on BK http://www.bkforum.com/group.php?groupid=9

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by tobee43 View Post
                            ditto!!!!

                            well banca...as long as you didn't agree with the part that i should have gotten an F!! LOL!!!


                            Well you did get a failing grade in giving hard earned money to a college. Other then that no Of course not! You got an A+++ LOL

                            Seriously I still feel all the programs will be in place. The value of these programs however will be worth NOTHING!!!!

                            Social security will buy nothing, obamacare, medicare, medicade will resemble something of a third world nation. All free of course. The dirt in the vacant lot by me is free too.
                            The essence of freedom is the proper limitation of Government

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by ryan View Post
                              What exactly is in the water in Oregon that makes so many of you attack "right wing fear mongers" for everything?
                              So many of me? Oh you mean because Oregon is not a deep red state, and we (the citizens) have progressive senators like Ron Wyden. I think it's the clean, cool air we breathe that allows us to think more clearly than the southern conservatives. Or maybe it's the green forests everywhere. It's true the dry dusty desert areas of the state contain more conservatives, and really small dead towns as well. Perhaps tea-party conservatives suffer from chronic dehydration and constipation. There must be a reason they like to ignore the facts.
                              “When fascism comes to America, it’ll be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross” — Sinclair Lewis

                              Comment

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