Economic depression possible, says George Soros

[WhatMoney]

Soros made most of his money through speculation and that is correct Whatmoney whatever you think

Thanks for repeating the obvious JR. The Quantum Fund was one of the first and most successful Hedge Funds. Hedge Funds speculate on the direction of prices. That is their business. Anyone that invests with leverage is speculating. That includes all the home buyers who bought their homes with borrowed money, speculating the price would rise and bail them out.

Soros is a philanthropist - maybe you don't understand that word. He's given away Billions to causes he believes in. Very little and only recently has any of his money gone to US politics. He mainly got active in the US after the damage George W Bush had done during his first term. Soros is from Hungary and is a strong anti-communist. He's more interested in the progress of the world community. Unlike some in the USA, he realizes we all live on the same planet.

According to his own website, Soros claims his support for the Solidarity labor movement in Poland, as well as the Czechoslovak human rights organization Charter 77, contributed to ending Soviet Union political dominance in those countries. His funding and organization of Georgia's Rose Revolution was considered by Russian and Western observers to have been crucial to its success, although Soros said his role has been greatly exaggerated.

Former Federal Reserve Chairman Paul Volcker wrote in 2003 in the foreword of Soros' book The Alchemy of Finance:

George Soros has made his mark as an enormously successful speculator, wise enough to largely withdraw when still way ahead of the game. The bulk of his enormous winnings is now devoted to encouraging transitional and emerging nations to become 'open societies,' open not only in the sense of freedom of commerce but—more important—tolerant of new ideas and different modes of thinking and behavior.

Soros has been active as a philanthropist since the 1970s, when he began providing funds to help black students attend the University of Cape Town in apartheid South Africa, and began funding dissident movements behind the iron curtain.

Soros' philanthropic funding includes efforts to promote non-violent democratization in the post-Soviet states. These efforts, mostly in Central and Eastern Europe, occur primarily through the Open Society Institute (OSI) and national Soros Foundations, which sometimes go under other names (such as the Stefan Batory Foundation in Poland). As of 2003, PBS estimated that he had given away a total of $4 billion. The OSI says it has spent about $400 million annually in recent years.

Time magazine in 2007 cited two specific projects - $100 million toward Internet infrastructure for regional Russian universities; and $50 million for the Millennium Promise to eradicate extreme poverty in Africa - while noting that Soros has given $742 million to projects in the U.S., and given away a total of more than $6 billion.

Other notable projects have included aid to scientists and universities throughout Central and Eastern Europe, help to civilians during the siege of Sarajevo, and Transparency International. Soros also pledged an endowment of €420 million to the Central European University (CEU). The Nobel Peace Prize winner Muhammad Yunus and his microfinance bank Grameen Bank received support from the OSI.

In September 2006, Soros departed from his characteristic sponsorship of democracy building programs, pledging $50 million to the Jeffrey Sachs-led Millennium Promise to help eradicate extreme poverty in Africa. Noting the connection between bad governance and poverty, he remarked on the humanitarian value of the project.

He received honorary doctoral degrees from the New School for Social Research (New York), the University of Oxford in 1980, the Corvinus University of Budapest, and Yale University in 1991. Soros also received the Yale International Center for Finance Award from the Yale School of Management in 2000 as well as the Laurea Honoris Causa, the highest honor of the University of Bologna in 1995.

Soros is not religious and supports no religion. He has been critical of the Israeli and US policy, which he believes encourages antisemitism:

There is a resurgence of anti-Semitism in Europe. The policies of the Bush administration and the Sharon administration contribute to that. It's not specifically anti-Semitism, but it does manifest itself in anti-Semitism as well. I'm critical of those policies... If we change that direction, then anti-Semitism also will diminish... I do believe that attitudes toward Israel are influenced by Israel's policies, and attitudes toward the Jewish community are influenced by the pro-Israel lobby's success in suppressing divergent views.

Guess there is nothing in there for the Mormons or the Christians.

Funny how the point of the original post gets ignored by the right-wingers because it was Soros. He was calling for more regulation of the financial markets. De-regulation started by Reagan in 1982 and continued by every administration since is why these bubbles were created, and are now collapsing. Soros was also warning about the financial collapse in the USA years before. His warnings and recommendations were ignored by the government. Can't blame him for causing this bubble - that's just nonsense.

[WhatMoney]

....who made billions speculating on global markets.
This pretty much sums up all you need to know about Mr. Soros....

Are you really that simple-minded?

[JRScott]

In case you missed it Hedge funds are part of the problem. It's just like when John Edwards said he joined a hedge fund to learn help the poor....I just had to laugh, especially when his tax returns showed he gave less than even 10% of his surplus to charity.

Daytrading is another critical problem. It and hedge funds are what is fueling not only speculation but the volatility of the markets.

Thus Soros is partly to blame for the current situation.

My response that he was a speculator was in response to your own post that nothing in this thread about him was true, but even as you just posted he is a speculator thus your own post earlier was nothing more than misleading as usual.

Perhaps we should impose a one time tax and have the government seize all assets over the value of 500k dollars of all citizens..... (Yeah like anyone would ever stand for that).

Deregulation is not the problem. The problem is that what regulation remained was ignored. It was certain members of Congress such as Frank, Dodd, and others who pressured banks and mortgage lenders such as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to engage in the very policies they are condemning now. It is the very sub prime mortgage mess that has led us to this problem. We are going to do it again too, because they have lent all this money to institutions that were essentially bankrupt and then encouraging them to once again engage in bad loans.

The first thing when this became apparent is that the SEC chairman should have been removed. Sec. Paulson should have been removed. Ben Bernanke should have been removed. The banking committees in the Senate and House should have been reorganized. Because that's the people that led us to this situation. That's why the bailout plan will never work, it lets the fox guard the hen house.

[WhatMoney]

In case you missed it Hedge funds are part of the problem.

Not really - Hedge funds are only a small part, and it depends on how they participate. Hedge funds are held by wealthy private investors. They are not banks. They have lost money by investing in packaged mortgage derivatives, just like everyone else. They are victims of the housing crisis, not the cause.

Daytrading is another critical problem. It and hedge funds are what is fueling not only speculation but the volatility of the markets.

Nope you are wrong again. Daytrading narrows the spread and increases liquidity. That is all. That decreases volatility. Hedge funds run by Soros tend to take large positions over time and hold them based on fundamental economic analysis. That decreases volatility. He is just smarter than most and knows when to get out before the crowd.

Volatility has many causes: uncertainty about the future, panics, greed, massive selling or buying by pension and mutual funds on fixed schedules, program trading, surprise government intervention in the markets, economic surprises, world events, etc, etc.

Thus Soros is partly to blame for the current situation.

And thus you are wrong again. Soros has moved to a high cash position during these market instabilities. That's why he is successful.

Deregulation is not the problem. The problem is that what regulation remained was ignored...

Nope, regulation of housing markets, banking, and derivative markets was removed over the past 25 years. That is deregulation. If there are no laws on the books to regulate parts of the markets, then the basic greed driving capitalism will cause those deregulated companies and banks to create excess and bubbles. Capitalism without regulation has always ended in disaster. You need to read more economic history. Deregulation of the energy industry led to a disaster like Enron. You can blame politicians for deregulating, but you can't blame them for improper oversight if there is not laws requiring the oversight.

The first thing when this became apparent is that the SEC chairman should have been removed. Sec. Paulson should have been removed. Ben Bernanke should have been removed. The banking committees in the Senate and House should have been reorganized. Because that's the people that led us to this situation.

You are failing to give any credit to the greed of the banks, the mortgage brokers, the assesors, the credit rating agencies, and the general public who knowingly took on debt they knew they could not afford it. And lets not forget Bush, who was encouraging subprime lending along with Greenspan, just a couple years ago. Nice try blaming only a couple congressional committees. There was widespread greed all around - everyone was making money, and without laws limiting the activity it just kept going until it collapsed on itself. Deregulation was the underlying cause.

[MomIcantFindmy]

Not really - Hedge funds are only a small part, and it depends on how they participate. Hedge funds are held by wealthy private investors. They are not banks. They have lost money by investing in packaged mortgage derivatives, just like everyone else. They are victims of the housing crisis, not the cause.



Nope you are wrong again. Daytrading narrows the spread and increases liquidity. That is all. That decreases volatility. Hedge funds run by Soros tend to take large positions over time and hold them based on fundamental economic analysis. That decreases volatility. He is just smarter than most and knows when to get out before the crowd.

Volatility has many causes: uncertainty about the future, panics, greed, massive selling or buying by pension and mutual funds on fixed schedules, program trading, surprise government intervention in the markets, economic surprises, world events, etc, etc.


And thus you are wrong again. Soros has moved to a high cash position during these market instabilities. That's why he is successful.



Nope, regulation of housing markets, banking, and derivative markets was removed over the past 25 years. That is deregulation. If there are no laws on the books to regulate parts of the markets, then the basic greed driving capitalism will cause those deregulated companies and banks to create excess and bubbles. Capitalism without regulation has always ended in disaster. You need to read more economic history. Deregulation of the energy industry led to a disaster like Enron. You can blame politicians for deregulating, but you can't blame them for improper oversight if there is not laws requiring the oversight.



You are failing to give any credit to the greed of the banks, the mortgage brokers, the assesors, the credit rating agencies, and the general public who knowingly took on debt they knew they could not afford it. And lets not forget Bush, who was encouraging subprime lending along with Greenspan, just a couple years ago. Nice try blaming only a couple congressional committees. There was widespread greed all around - everyone was making money, and without laws limiting the activity it just kept going until it collapsed on itself. Deregulation was the underlying cause.

Whatmoney,
Your posts are very educational. You have to be involved in banking or investments. Where is the bulk of your experience? Just wondering.

[fltoo]

Whatmoney, I agree with all you said except you lost me on your last paragraph only citing Bush. Cite all blame for the politically correct meltdown.

There is no simplistic one reason such as deregulation. Carter started the mess with trying to combat redlining. The result in the year 2008....reverse redlining and the ramifications of it.

This is such a complicated mess that Carter, Bush 1&2, Clinton all had a hand in creating.

Only the names of those propagating this mess have changed to supposedly protect the innocent.

Hey, I will be the first one to support and respect any president that the American people elect. But, change? We have just witnessed a large scale scam coming to fruition.

[JRScott]

Whatmoney,
Your posts are very educational. You have to be involved in banking or investments. Where is the bulk of your experience? Just wondering.

What I wrote was true.

If they had not ignored the regulations on the books today, we would not be here. It was the fault of a lax SEC, lax FDIC, lax Secretary of the Treasurer and lax oversight by congressional committees. While the problem certainly was not started during the current administration or current congress, they did nothing to stop. If they wouldn't even follow the current regulations which admittedly are much less than what existed 30 years ago, what makes you think they'd follow more regulations....

They continued in their pressure on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac particularly Frank and Dodd. They used threats against various banks that they would not be allowed to buy other banks or merge if they didn't make bad loans. This pressure was from Congress. Had it not existed we would not be here today.

It started in the Clinton Administration and he did nothing to right it. It continued into Bush's Administration and once again he did nothing to right it. They didn't because they both wanted a short term return. They figured getting more Americans into homes would mean more votes for them, even if those people would later default, because by the time they'd default it be time to leave office anyway.

It is not just the D and not just the R, it is both of them. They lie to you every election.

(I suppose by Whatmoney's accounting it'll be Reagan's and Bush's fault when Social Security can no longer fund itself and Medicare and Medicaid as well, when those decisions were made when neither were president and Congress who passes legislation has never tried to fix the problem)

[WhatMoney]

Whatmoney, I agree with all you said except you lost me on your last paragraph only citing Bush.

I should have said the Bush administration, since Bush as in George only reads the speeches that are written for him.
George did say this in 2002, four years before the first subprime ARM's starting exploding:

REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT ON HOMEOWNERSHIP
at the Department of Housing and Urban Development
Washington, D.C.
June 18, 2002, 10:30 A.M. EDT

"The goal is, everybody who wants to own a home has got a shot at doing so. The problem is we have what we call a homeownership gap in America. Three-quarters of Anglos own their homes, and yet less than 50 percent of African Americans and Hispanics own homes. That ownership gap signals that something might be wrong in the land of plenty. And we need to do something about it.

We are here in Washington, D.C. to address problems. So I've set this goal for the country. We want 5.5 million more homeowners by 2010 -- million more minority homeowners by 2010. (Applause.) Five-and-a-half million families by 2010 will own a home. That is our goal. It is a realistic goal. But it's going to mean we're going to have to work hard to achieve the goal, all of us. And by all of us, I mean not only the federal government, but the private sector, as well.

And so I want to, one, encourage you to do everything you can to work in a realistic, smart way to get this done. I repeat, we're here for a reason. And part of the reason is to make this dream extend everywhere."

Of course Greenspan was cheerleading the subprime market back then:

Greenspan's denial of the possibility of a housing bubble has been widely derided in the past year, but a single statement could be excused as human error. However, a quick scan shows that this wasn't a single event. He also promoted the adoption and expansion of adjustable-rate mortgage (ARM) products in early 2004, when short-term rates were at or near historic lows. That same year he claimed, "securitization by Fannie and Freddie allows mortgage originators to separate themselves from almost all aspects of risk associated with mortgage lending." And separate themselves they did, ceasing to perform any kind of due diligence as to the ability of borrowers to pay for the homes they were buying.

Now retired from his role as the nation's monetary conscience, Greenspan continues to espouse his, er, theories on the financial crisis through editorials in which he denies any culpability for the events of the past three years. He is also applying his experience and insight as an advisor for Paulson & Company, a hedge fund which cashed in on billions of dollars by calling the collapse of the subprime mortgage market that Greenspan helped create.

Oops, there's those hedge funds and Paulson at work again.

Above quotes from this source, lots of blame to go around:

http://www.thomhartmann.com/index.ph...58&func=fb_pdf

[WhatMoney]

JR, Here's some good reading for you. I've just highlighted the section titles below. Plenty of details for you to verify.

The Credit Crisis: The Bush Administration's Record of Denial and Regulatory Neglect

The epicenter of the current market turmoil has been caused by risky mortgages that the Bush Administration failed to regulate.

Republican-appointed regulators turned a blind-eye to the early warning signs of an unstable mortgage market.

Bush-McCain Republicans "denied, denied, denied" the growing economic and housing crisis until it was too late.

Arguing that they had it under control, the Bush Administration fought Congressional Democrats' efforts to address the housing crisis.

The Bush Administration repeatedly blocked Government Sponsored Enterprises (GSE) reform.

Despite the assertions of Bush-McCain Republicans, GSEs did not ignite the subprime fire, they were swept up in a fire started by unregulated financial institutions.

Bush-McCain Republicans were openly hostile to sound regulation of financial markets by the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), opting instead to let Wall Street regulate itself.

This article from a completely unbiased government source, of course:

http://dpc.senate.gov/dpc-new.cfm?doc_name=fs-110-2-171

[banca rotta]

You can finger point all you want. The brokers, bankers and soon to be homeless caused this problem and they must all deal with it.

Glad the election is over. Obama admitted on 60 minutes last night that neither party did much to stop it. Before the election it was all "Bush's failed policy".