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Why are the Republicans so opposed to aetting BK judeges help?

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    Why are the Republicans so opposed to aetting BK judeges help?

    The proposal to help at-risk homeowners was simple: allow bankruptcy judges to rework loans (essentially, lower the mortgage principal and payments) to keep them in their homes and out of foreclosure. Sadly, supporters of the plan surrendered and instead focused on CEO pay -- a populist issue that's a distraction from the real problem of empty homes.

    Critic sees bailout as 'unfair and ineffective'

    "The only way to stop the free-fall of housing prices is to stop foreclosures," Kathleen Day, spokeswoman for the Center For Responsible Lending, warned. "If you don't do something for consumers, this is going to be unfair and ineffective."

    The proposal to amend Chapter 13 bankruptcy law (the kind where debtors repay their loans, but buy time and get some discounts) is hardly revolutionary. Under Chapter 13, filers can rework all kinds of loans: car loans, vacation home loans, investment/rental property loans. But primary residence loans are exempt. Struggling homeowners face two choices in current bankruptcy law -- pay every penny or walk away. The limitation stems from a 1970s law that was intended to encourage banks to lend more money to would-be homeowners.

    The simplest way to prevent the coming avalanche of additional empty homes -- and thereby make those asset-backed-securities have some real value -- is to prevent people from getting kicked out. It's stunning that $700 billion is about to change hands with no direct plan for keeping them in their homes.

    There is the HOPE NOW alliance, set up by Congress this year to encourage at-risk homeowners and banks to renegotiate mortgages voluntarily. By all measures, it's been a failure. Banks aren't answering their phones when consumers call; trusts that service mortgages have perverse incentives in place that make foreclosure more profitable than renegotiated loans.

    Allowing modification of home loans in bankruptcy would encourage banks to negotiate new terms, as it would allow the banks to avoid court costs and delays. Once bankruptcy courts set a few price points on modified loans, voluntary participation would likely follow.

    The financial industry, which has long resisted modifying Chapter 13 bankruptcy, says that such a change would deal the mortgage-backed securities industry a body blow. Allowing judges to reduce the principal owed on a mortgage -- lenders call this a "cramdown" -- would lower the overall value of mortgage instruments, as a built-in bankruptcy discount would have to be applied, which would, in turn, harm consumers by restricting the flow of credit, banks say.

    No sign of 'bankruptcy premium'

    But Georgetown’s Levitin published a study last month that indicates that other loan markets are not adversely impacted by bankruptcy modification. There’s no difference in mortgage rates between primary residence loans and vacation residence homes, for example – and there would be if there were a “bankruptcy premium,” he said.

    Levitin argues that proposed Chapter 13 bankruptcy changes would in fact be “market neutral.” Bankruptcy judges are well trained in determining consumers' ability to repay a loan, meaning many banks would get 50, 60, or 70 cents on the dollar, up to twice as much as they would realize after going through the costly foreclosure process, he said.

    And neighbors would certainly agree that such a home loan modification would be preferable to another empty home.

    "The contagion began on Main Street, and it has to be fixed there," said Day, from the Center for Responsible Lending. "You are not going to get at the root of this and really restore the economy until you stop all the foreclosures.”


    I am so confused as to why they are asking for a huge bailout to help all the banks sell off their bad debt (cramming down to true market value) but are so opposed to the new bill letting BK 13 judges cram down and adjust rates on homeowners primary homes?

    It doesn't make sense to me. They say it's because it will make banks rais their rates for mortgages because the homeowner knows they can just file a 13. They have no idea how hard a deciosn that filing is and how complicated a 13 plan is.

    The little guy always gets the raw end of the deal!!
    Last edited by chloe0724; 09-26-2008, 04:43 AM.
    Filed Chapter 13 05/23/08
    Converted to Chapter 7 Jan 2012
    Discharged April 2012

    #2
    Yeah, its even harder to pay a home off in a Chapter 13 (5 years) then it is on a 30 year loan.....................
    Nobody said life was "fair"....................
    Minny

    "It's amazing the paths that our feet sometimes follow in life".

    My suggestions are from "personal experience" and research only. Do not consider this as legal advice. Each bankruptcy case is different.

    Comment


      #3
      Minny,

      I think you may be confused. They are trying to modify the law to give the ability for the BK judges to either change the rate people have to a fixed one they can afford, or reduce the principal on the home to the current MV. No one said anything about paying it off in 5 years. It's just a viable way for people who are stuggeling with their current mortgage to be able to stay in the home instead of adding to the forclosures.

      I don't think the sarcasm was needed.
      Filed Chapter 13 05/23/08
      Converted to Chapter 7 Jan 2012
      Discharged April 2012

      Comment


        #4
        Primarily I suspect they see the longer term ramifications.

        As a bank would you loan money to someone for a mortgage who met say the minimum requirements for the loan if at some point down the line a judge might modify the loan and thus you get less than agreed upon initially?

        If you included such a provision to allow it, you need to give the mortgage lender and equal tax break to be fair. Say you modify the principle from 200k to 150k, then the lender should get a 50k tax break since he's basically lost income/value on his investments.

        The problem is that the situation is very complex and one week of rushed talks will not produce a good fix, Congress should delay its adjournment for at least another week or two to give adequate time for discussion.
        May 31st, 2007: Petition Filed by my lawyer
        July 2nd, 2007: 341 Meeting Held
        September 4th, 2007: Discharged and Closed.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by JRScott View Post
          Primarily I suspect they see the longer term ramifications.
          The problem is that the situation is very complex and one week of rushed talks will not produce a good fix, Congress should delay its adjournment for at least another week or two to give adequate time for discussion.

          Here is where we will see the true nature of Congress. Our country definitely didn't get her because of one bad policy, investment or lack of oversight by one government authority.. As an American.. If they do this quick.. I will be angry.. I didn't wake up one day and decide to claim bankruptcy.. I studied my situation, I analyzed my position, I came up with a solution, I am acting on my solution. This started in June.. I have not filed yet.. Of course, I am only one person? I just know they better take their time and do it right if a bailout is going to be given.

          Comment


            #6
            I hear you MI, I actually fought filing for 2 years thinking I might could get out of it, but still it was there. Then last year I decided I had no choice and still studied for a couple of months before filing.
            May 31st, 2007: Petition Filed by my lawyer
            July 2nd, 2007: 341 Meeting Held
            September 4th, 2007: Discharged and Closed.

            Comment


              #7
              I am with both of you. My husband and I tried despreatly for years to try and dig ourselves out of our money mess. When we broke down and decided to file, it was a hard and long though out choice.
              Filed Chapter 13 05/23/08
              Converted to Chapter 7 Jan 2012
              Discharged April 2012

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by chloe0724 View Post
                Minny,

                I think you may be confused. They are trying to modify the law to give the ability for the BK judges to either change the rate people have to a fixed one they can afford, or reduce the principal on the home to the current MV. No one said anything about paying it off in 5 years. It's just a viable way for people who are stuggeling with their current mortgage to be able to stay in the home instead of adding to the forclosures.

                I don't think the sarcasm was needed.
                Yeah they basically want to do as us bker's know as "cram downs". Just as a 13 filer can cram down their car that's 3 years or older they want judges to have the ability to base the value of a home on what they are going for in that region and the debtor will have a lower secured liability and the rest of the debt will become unsecured and discharged at the end of the plan.

                I can't imagine why they won't sign off on this one. I was hoping it would be attached to the bailout.

                I also hate to keep throwing the politics of this out since once again I'm not defending the repubs, but the dems have the majority. Why they won't force this down Bush's throat especially now with the bailout is beyond me. It's just something for people that still feel the "dems are for the little guy" need to understand. They're giving Wall Street a bailout at least let the bk judge modify the home price. It will reduce forclosures, that's for sure.
                Last edited by banca rotta; 09-27-2008, 04:41 PM.
                The essence of freedom is the proper limitation of Government

                Comment


                  #9
                  I think the republicans want the bill to be as bare bones as possible if they are being asked to pass it this quickly. They don't want to see alot of things added to it. The simpler it is the easier it is to swallow for everyone.

                  I personally think both sides are acting like 5 year old children. Republicans are saying "Don't want to, can't make me". The Democrats are saying "Yeah mom said I could spend money, I want, I want, I want" The democrats know the Republicans are cold to the whole idea of this bail out I don't get why they are wanting to add so much to the bill thereby making the republicans even more hostile to it. It is widly assumed that the democrats are going to have a good majority come January. Can't some of these other reforms wait until then?
                  Filed: 10/26/2006
                  Discharged: 03/05/2007
                  Closed: 5/19/2008 - Asset case due to balance transfer and income tax refund

                  Comment


                    #10
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                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by chloe0724 View Post
                      Minny,

                      I think you may be confused. They are trying to modify the law to give the ability for the BK judges to either change the rate people have to a fixed one they can afford, or reduce the principal on the home to the current MV. No one said anything about paying it off in 5 years. It's just a viable way for people who are stuggeling with their current mortgage to be able to stay in the home instead of adding to the forclosures.

                      I don't think the sarcasm was needed.
                      Any sort of cramdown or bailout for Chapter 13 filers as to mortgage principle will probably never come to fuitation and here's why...while you can now cram down a 3 year old car that has depreciated in value in a 13 and pay fair market value back to the creditor over the course of your plan, that car will never appreciate again in value as would a home. If you crammed down the principle on a home in a Chapter 13 and a certain amount of that principle or however they may work the cramdown is discharged at the end of the plan, the the debtor walked away from the Chapter 13 with a major asset that would again rise in value in the years to come, you would have such an increase in filings of people hoping to get away with this and you would have irate voters and mortgage holders in this country up in arms that no one is cutting them any sort of deal when they struggle working two jobs or more to make their mortgage payments and on time. I can also see present folks in a confirmed Chapter 13 having to redo Plans and also past filers getting hot under the collar that they were not allowed this opportunity. This issue would be a hot button and will be avoided and not get touched or a deal will be worked out if the payment is lowered during the Plan that at the end of the plan there would be verbiage that the debtor would have to payback any principle reduced during the plan, similar to that which was proposed or has gone through as to saving homes in foreclosure (i.e., the principle would have to be paid back when the home rises in value again) and which was also discussed heavily on here in either the credit/bk news section or the foreclosure sectoin as to mortgage help in a foreclosure.
                      Last edited by Flamingo; 10-06-2008, 02:11 AM. Reason: Spelling
                      _________________________________________
                      Filed 5 Year Chapter 13: April 2002
                      Early Buy-Out: April 2006
                      Discharge: August 2006

                      "A credit card is a snake in your pocket"

                      Comment


                        #12
                        That's a good point Flamingo but, the flip side is, anyone so upside down that bk is an option is looking at a hefty loss. If the home were foreclosed on, the bank will eventually have to find a marketclearing price to get out from under the home. In other words, they'll lose money anyway-why not give the little guy a chance as opposed to a wealthy real estate investor? After the deal the banks just got, I'm for "joe 6 pack" getting a sweet deal.
                        As to the issues of prior filers-the answer is too bad. You can't save everybody.
                        I actually think this has a decent shot now for the simple reason that if, Obama wins he won't have a lot of money to do the things he's promised with health care reform. This cramdown plan won't cost the gov't any money-the cost will be absorped by the private sector. I think it'll get a big push.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by keepmine View Post
                          That's a good point Flamingo but, the flip side is, anyone so upside down that bk is an option is looking at a hefty loss. If the home were foreclosed on, the bank will eventually have to find a marketclearing price to get out from under the home. In other words, they'll lose money anyway-why not give the little guy a chance as opposed to a wealthy real estate investor? After the deal the banks just got, I'm for "joe 6 pack" getting a sweet deal.
                          As to the issues of prior filers-the answer is too bad. You can't save everybody.
                          I actually think this has a decent shot now for the simple reason that if, Obama wins he won't have a lot of money to do the things he's promised with health care reform. This cramdown plan won't cost the gov't any money-the cost will be absorped by the private sector. I think it'll get a big push.
                          I agree but to work this out and cram down mortgages, it will have to be ensured that people in BK and foreclosure will be able to pay back the crammed portion if they are doing so bad in the first place so there are many details to be looked at because not many people may be able to qualify to save their home under those circumstances, especially with a job loss. It's a mess. It will be a difficult situation all around and will create a huge stink among the average homeowner. Ask your mortgage owning friend or neighbor if he/she thinks someone who purchased a house biting off more than they could chew should be allowed lowered equity in a house because they can't make the payments anymore (predatory mortgage) while your friend/neighbor is working away at paying their mortgage(s) and also have declined values. Touchy situation but a big slap of reality. As always, there are two sides to every coin and one side always has more voters.
                          _________________________________________
                          Filed 5 Year Chapter 13: April 2002
                          Early Buy-Out: April 2006
                          Discharge: August 2006

                          "A credit card is a snake in your pocket"

                          Comment

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