Differences in BT's and cash advances

[keepmine]

Very interesting read from a bk blog about a 6th circuit opinion.

http://www.************************/...re-recent-use/

[HHM]

Very interesting. But, I think the commentator rightly pointed out that Judge Speer's opinion is probably a minority view and the decision was based on factors specific to the case.

But, the ruling creates an interesting contradiction, if this debtor's balance transfer was NOT a cash advance, then what was it? Wouldn't that make the BT a charge, and wouldn't it be a fair argument that doing a BT to a credit card is a "luxury" and hence trigger the 90 day rule. In this case, the BT was made 82 days before filing BK.

I'd be interested in seeing if someone could track down the full text of the opinion.

[diviaruba]

Here you go:

http://www.ohnb.uscourts.gov/judges/Judge_Speer/op_20071003_Chase%20Bank%20v.%20Carley%20Brumbaugh_rs_06-3639.pdf

[zimbra]

That was a good read, thanks for posting the link. I am now pretty nervous. I filed Chapter 7 in the beginning of January and did a cash advance towards the end of October for a down payment on a vehicle. We were trying to set ourselves up for a smaller payment/more fuel efficient vehicle to try to avoid having to file for bankruptcy. Things took a turn for the worse and my husband’s work dried up shortly thereafter, and we were told by CCCS that filing was our only option.

Chase is now making some noise about this cash advance and has sent a reaffirmation agreement for the full amount. The problem is I am going through a divorce and I cannot afford to pay the required minimum payments even at zero percent interest.

I am scared and not sure what to do. I have spoken briefly with my lawyer and she said that she could not in good faith sign the reaffirmation because I don’t have the funds to repay and she is not sure how the courts will handle this. Ironically, Chase also financed the vehicle in question, and my attorney is wondering if surrendering the vehicle will alleviate the cash advance problem.

Don’t get me wrong, I know the time lines are very tight, and I did not make these decisions to defraud Chase, I was just trying to put us in a better position to pay our obligations and it came back to bite us. I know that paying it back is right, I just don’t have the funds to pay what they are asking now.

[HHM]

zimbra

How much of a cash advance are we talking about?

But yeah, you are in a problematic situation.

[zimbra]

We are talking about $6,000 - a lot I know, but this also included gap and extended warranty since this was to be the primary family vehicle as well as the vehicle I drive approximately 70 miles a day to work in back.

I do feel it is right to pay this money back, and it does look bad (even to me), even though we were not trying to do anything shady. I am just wondering if the attorney involved on behalf of Chase will/can negotiate since they have already send a reaffirmation agreement to my attorney.

[CindyLou]

just because they sent a reafirmation agreement does not mean they have objected.

When is your deadline for objections? I know it looks bad, in reality you didn't do anything wrong in the transaction.

I would just not respond at all to the agreement and continue on with the BK and see what happens.

They may just be trying to pull a fast one and will not object. If they do object theb deal with it then.

[zimbra]

Thanks, that makes me feel better. There are just so many unknowns and I will just have to wait to see what happens. Chase's attorney did send some paperwork asking to extend the discharge date until the end of June (hope that doesn't happen). My attorney did say that she doesn't see how I can make the reaffirmation payments, so even if I did sign the paperwork, she wouldn't. I guess its time to play the game and see how things shake out.

[keepmine]

WOW!
Just read the case and as much as I hate to say it, were I Chase I'd have appealed that ruling.
Chase must have jacked that judges interest rate or something. Noway you get that ruling again.
One thing I truely don't understand is, she got a pass on inflating her income. I didn't follow the rational.

[HHM]

WOW!
Just read the case and as much as I hate to say it, were I Chase I'd have appealed that ruling.
Chase must have jacked that judges interest rate or something. Noway you get that ruling again.
One thing I truely don't understand is, she got a pass on inflating her income. I didn't follow the rational.

I agree, that case seems more like the judge was trying to find ANY reason to rule in the debtors favor. I understand the logic about not "increasing" total debt, but at the same time, why should chase bare the brunt of the debtor's choice.