Do you think the jobs would return if there were a virtual moratorium on immigration?

[IamOld]

I've thought Wiemar Republic a few times...

Re Nixon...well...he really screwed up the peace talks before the elections in 1968...LBJ's problem was he just couldn't "let go" of Vietnam...just couldn't let it go.

I think you and I are both thinking the same thing...what followed the depression was ww2...and that is my fear here as well...

The thing is that these are choices that the elites are making..there is no "natural" law that would state that these issues with which we are dealing cannot be fixed!!!

Yes, friend: We do agree but for different reasons. I too think that you, I, of our age, have lived the best time of our century. It is far too bad that we, who realize what has happened live to know that we left to our future generation, troubles far beyond what we have realized.

I class myself as an Independent or Conservative. I dislike both parties though have to lean towards the lessors of what I consider the evils. Put yourself back to 1960, and to 64, who would you have voted for? I would have voted for Kennedy (but I was too young to vote), but you realize the 60's group were in riots and war protests against a Democrat government? Nixon who got us out of Viet Nam (bowed out or the like) was a Rep. Politics as crooked then as now.

So, the pendulum swings to and fro. The unfortunate thing is, I know a bit of history, and I see we as Germany was during the rise of the Reich. I hope to see another election, but now and again, I doubt we may not see another free election. I hope I am wrong. 'Hub

[AngelinaCatHub]

I've thought Wiemar Republic a few times...

Re Nixon...well...he really screwed up the peace talks before the elections in 1968...LBJ's problem was he just couldn't "let go" of Vietnam...just couldn't let it go.

I think you and I are both thinking the same thing...what followed the depression was ww2...and that is my fear here as well...

The thing is that these are choices that the elites are making..there is no "natural" law that would state that these issues with which we are dealing cannot be fixed!!!

Yes, I do believe we are in agreement as well as Shark.
What I fear the most, is the fact that our World is becoming many little "Hitlers" one being on our own soil, one in Venezuela, and the worse one in Iran. If that nutcase goes off on Israel, it is all over. We will have much more to worry about than our economic system.

Have you ever seen some of those Mad Max movies? I bit camp for me, but you can see a parallel of Mad Max in Somalia. If you can't pay a policeman, you won't have police. Picture your and my neighborhoods with many Mad Max's.

One nuke and World panic and anarchy. Just my opinion. "Keep your powder dry". 'Hub

[GoingDown]

Excellent thread. Shark yours was outstanding.

My two cents in a nutshell: It was Nixon who opened up China, Clinton pushed us over to NAFTA, Clinton selling missile Guidance, Both Bushes screwing up two wars, Obama continuing George Orwell's planned society, Johnson selling our country into "entitlements" with the Great Society, and last but most important. Adolph Hitler, who state in Mein Kamph "Give me the children and I'll take the World".

Bottom line is whatever shadow government there may be, it is succeeding by dumbing our children down. My wife's Dad left in his stuff his old school books of 1920's. He was taking Calculus in his Jr. High School year, as well as Latin. He was versed in the classics as well as History and Geography.

My brother hired a young man, 21 years old. As I was working with my brother on some building, I mentioned to this young man the term Adolph Hitler, and he asked "who is that?" I asked him if he knew of the Second World War. His exact words; "They never taught me of those things." He also did not know about the Korean nor the Viet Nam conflicts. Ask any young person today where Arizona is, and you just may get an answer of "I never heard of that Country". Ask them who the Vice President is and they may not even know that.

Sadly, this is so true. My nephews and neices did not know that New Mexico was part of the United States. And they thought D.C. was somewhere near Seattle. I told their parents to do some geography and history enrichment activities with them at home, because they're not getting it in the public schools anymore.



We are being bred and molded into "worker bees" as the middle class dies out. There will be two classes, workers, and Government. It is History repeating itself over and over, again.

Hyper inflation is being constructed now as it was in the 20's. A cheap way to pay our National debt. We are IN a depression make no mistake about this. If the news media was honest instead of cooperative with government, we 'workers' would be terrified of what is going on in our bankrupt society. My three cents, only. 'Hub

...

[GoingDown]

I agree with this! We seem to be the only country in the world that does nothing to protect its own manufacturing jobs.

Manufacturing jobs? What do you think this is, 1950s?

You're not cool unless you're a bankster, get a life, dude! Or at least an iPhone...

Unfortunately, I do not see any current candidate even daring to speak about this matter.

GoingDown for President! Problem solved. Issue resolved.
Good luck to us all.

Sadly, the only ones who would probably want to vote for me would be the illegals, and they can't vote. ;)

I still wonder how long we can continue to spend more than we take in as a country?

The trade deficit continues year after year after year.

We are bleeding our country dry.

And seriously, has anyone noticed how crappy most of the things from China really are? They just don't last very long at all. So, are they really cheaper?

After burning out 5 blenders made in China just making blueberry smoothies, I decided to go on Ebay and buy an old American made blender, and guess what? It is still working! The Chinese stuff is just not built to last. It's garbage.

[IamOld]

Exactly right guys!!!!

[AngelinaCatHub]

...

Acknowledged,. "goingdown".

Exactly right guys!!!!

Same IAO. Now, a question and perhaps I may make a new thread, What are WE, who know, doing about protecting our families, neighborhood and just plainly, ourselves? I have mentioned upon this forum before, about stockpiling foods, and ammunition. Of course the left do not like guns. When in fear of my life, would I rather have a gun, or an opinion? I was born with an opinion, I was wise enough to procure a weapon. 'Hub

[ttg1]

The direct and specific answer to the OP is that no, the jobs won't come back. But that doesn't mean that a ban on immigration is a bad thing.

My problem with immigration is not what it does but what it fails to do. No individual, community, or country can continue to exists unless it invests in its own most precious natural resource: its people. You don't invest in your own people by replacing them with other people. And that is what immigration has done. The net result has been not only a brain drain of people to other countries such as Ireland and Brazil but equally as important much of the basic manual labor was done by people with no long-term commitment to the communities they lived in.

I don't think banning immigration is the best answer. What I would like to see is a total ban on all cross-border financial transfers. If you want to come here and invest your life in America you are welcome regardless of your race or sex. But if what you want to do is come here and loot the country, which is in effect what immigrant has done, then go home please.

[discouraged]

That's a good thought but how would they possibly enforce it? I know there are times when I am at the service center at the local grocery store and see these funds sent off. Can't figure out how that could be monitored.

[ttg1]

That's a good thought but how would they possibly enforce it?

Enforcing it is a minor issue. All international transfers are ultimately transfered through the SWIFT system. The reporting systems already exist as a means of detecting money laundering. All you are doing is changing the dollar amounts. Literally, you are just changing the location of a decimal point in a database. That's how simple it is.

[shark66]

You do understand that *any* bill attempting to deal with money transfers the way you're proposing would be DOA in Congress?

In all fairness, if someone is here legally, it's no one's business what they do with their money apart from their own.

Illegal immigration is an excellent business for one too many industries and Washington will do its very best to keep the status quo...

Good luck to us all.

[ttg1]

You do understand that *any* bill attempting to deal with money transfers the way you're proposing would be DOA in Congress?

The statement was made that we need to reinvent ourselves. I agree. I proposed one way to do that. The question was then raised as to how difficult my suggestion would be to implement as a technical matter. Technically, it's very easy to implement. Politically...that's an entirely different matter.

In all fairness, if someone is here legally, it's no one's business what they do with their money apart from their own.

In all fairness, that's an entirely silly argument. We already regulate quite heavily what people do with their money from taxes (which is a form of regulation) to money laundering, which I mentioned. Whether one should be free to do what they want with their money is a philosophical question. As a matter of fact, it's simply untrue that one is free do what they want with their money in this country at this point in time.

Illegal immigration is an excellent business for one too many industries and Washington will do its very best to keep the status quo...

The issue how long can the status quo last. Of all the people in the USA, the people on this forum should know with clarity that the status quo can't last forever. Depending on whose counting, the country is between 12 and 17 trillion dollars in debt. That has to be paid by someone. The only material question is who.

[shark66]

In all fairness, that's an entirely silly argument. We already regulate quite heavily what people do with their money from taxes (which is a form of regulation) to money laundering, which I mentioned. Whether one should be free to do what they want with their money is a philosophical question. As a matter of fact, it's simply untrue that one is free do what they want with their money in this country at this point in time.

I never claimed that people were free to do what they want with their money. What I believe is that they *should* be.

That's where you and I differ: we should regulate less and not more. Give the government more power to snoop through people's accounts and personal business? Are you kidding me? The government is the exact reason why we are in this mess to begin with...it is the government that had erected an education system that creates retards. It's the government that keeps on granting amnesty to illegals over and over again...

Being a *legal* immigrant, I can't possibly begin to explain how this pattern makes my blood boil...



The issue how long can the status quo last. Of all the people in the USA, the people on this forum should know with clarity that the status quo can't last forever. Depending on whose counting, the country is between 12 and 17 trillion dollars in debt. That has to be paid by someone. The only material question is who.

No one.

The big boys will keep on printing money like Weinmar Germany or go bankrupt.

I'd be betting on former, not the latter.

Good luck to us all.

[AngelinaCatHub]

I'm afraid they know all too well what they are doing with our money. They are inflating it just as in Germany who paid off WWI reparations with fiat worthless paper. This youtube movie is excellent, long but accurate. It is a total believable and provable scenario. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU

It is over two hours but once started I dare say you won't leave it unfinished. 'Hub

[Fallonedward]

This is what happened to my husband, him and his entire department were outsourced to a facility in India.

I am proud to live in a country that welcomes people from all over the world, and fascinated with history and how much of this country was built on the backbone of immigrants.

I do not think that halting immigration would make jobs return. The problem, as I have personally witnessed, is American companies sending jobs overseas. Many people I know have lost their jobs when their entire departments (and even entire regional offices) were moved to another country.

I'm not in IT, so I can't speak to your industry. However, I can't remember the last time I called tech support and spoke to someone in a US call center. Heck, even all my collection calls are coming from overseas!

[banca rotta]

Sadly, the only ones who would probably want to vote for me would be the illegals, and they can't vote. ;)

I still wonder how long we can continue to spend more than we take in as a country?

The trade deficit continues year after year after year.

We are bleeding our country dry.

And seriously, has anyone noticed how crappy most of the things from China really are? They just don't last very long at all. So, are they really cheaper?

After burning out 5 blenders made in China just making blueberry smoothies, I decided to go on Ebay and buy an old American made blender, and guess what? It is still working! The Chinese stuff is just not built to last. It's garbage.

It's hard to put a time frame on it but it will happen in time. It most likely will take a crisis to do the job. One thing I feel is a lot of people compare us to Wiemar Germany and feel that we will collapse and then a dictator like Hitler will rise.

Looking back at our history I feel we will collapse, see how we got to the collapse, rebuild the free market economy and build it all back up and this may take 2 decades, but it will happen.

Whatever pain we all have now and the coming pain we will endure it won't be as bad as the Civil war was and probably won't be as bad as the 1930's depression. We survived both

Whatever does happen there will be an endgame to the spending more then we take in addiction.