Do you think the jobs would return if there were a virtual moratorium on immigration?

[JackBondLove]

I can guarantee you that NONE of the Indian or Russian computer geeks works for that type of money. They *start* at double of that sum with sky being the limit.. And I know hundreds of them, personally.

They just know their stuff a lot better than their American counterparts, and have significantly better work ethic, that's all.

It's not all the amount of money that something (or someone) costs, it's what you get in return...

Good luck to us all.

I will agree that the Russians are sharp. I am an English consultant in a European former USSR republic, and the stuff that the high school kids take are amazing (13 y.o. taking physics? 16 y.o. taking differential equations?)

I am generally not impressed with the Indians, however (except for their spicy food!) Do they work "hard"? Well, if they screw up, they go back to the squalor of Kolkata, so what do you think? I have always thought that the intellectual makeup of a people is reflected in the cleanliness and orderliness of their society - India is a basket case. Russia OTOH put a man in space (before even the mighty capitalists!), but just couldn't figure out how to make good consumer products (like beer, which I had tasted back in the USSR days.)

[shark66]

You're definitely in the wrong place for beer...they do have some pretty decent red wines, though...

If you're a beer person, your next stop should be Czech Republic...great culture, smart folk, oh-my-God food and beer to match it...

If that's too far away, most of former Yugoslavian republics as well as Hungary have very good beer, as well as hard liquor...and food is nothing to sneeze at either, quite the contrary...

Happy hunting.

[IamOld]

You're definitely in the wrong place for beer...they do have some pretty decent red wines, though...

If you're a beer person, your next stop should be Czech Republic...great culture, smart folk, oh-my-God food and beer to match it...

If that's too far away, most of former Yugoslavian republics as well as Hungary have very good beer, as well as hard liquor...and food is nothing to sneeze at either, quite the contrary...

Happy hunting.

A good cold Pilsner, with some hearty and spicy gulash - and I would be very happy :-)

[GoingDown]

We need to reinstate the tariffs - protectionism is NOT a dirty word - it's practiced by all nations except for the US (including China) - that will make imports more expensive than domestically produced goods - result - jobs including manufacturing will retun, wages will rise. Worked from the late 1700's through the early 1980's!

I agree with this! We seem to be the only country in the world that does nothing to protect its own manufacturing jobs. Tariffs would do more to help us get out of this economic mess than anything else. We cannot build a strong economy delivering pizzas to one another. Just as our families must spend less than we take in, as a country we must import less than we export to other countries. The trade deficit is ultimately what is dragging down our economy. And, I believe that we could easily compete with China in terms of quality. Have you noticed how almost anything you buy from China is rather crappy in terms of quality? Light bulbs that are supposed to last 8 years end up lasting about a year. We could do better than that.

Unfortunately, I do not see any current candidate even daring to speak about this matter.

[shark66]

I agree with this! We seem to be the only country in the world that does nothing to protect its own manufacturing jobs.

Manufacturing jobs? What do you think this is, 1950s?

You're not cool unless you're a bankster, get a life, dude! Or at least an iPhone...

Unfortunately, I do not see any current candidate even daring to speak about this matter.

GoingDown for President! Problem solved. Issue resolved.

Good luck to us all.

[AngelinaCatHub]

Excellent thread. Shark yours was outstanding.

My two cents in a nutshell: It was Nixon who opened up China, Clinton pushed us over to NAFTA, Clinton selling missile Guidance, Both Bushes screwing up two wars, Obama continuing George Orwell's planned society, Johnson selling our country into "entitlements" with the Great Society, and last but most important. Adolph Hitler, who state in Mein Kamph "Give me the children and I'll take the World".

Bottom line is whatever shadow government there may be, it is succeeding by dumbing our children down. My wife's Dad left in his stuff his old school books of 1920's. He was taking Calculus in his Jr. High School year, as well as Latin. He was versed in the classics as well as History and Geography.

My brother hired a young man, 21 years old. As I was working with my brother on some building, I mentioned to this young man the term Adolph Hitler, and he asked "who is that?" I asked him if he knew of the Second World War. His exact words; "They never taught me of those things." He also did not know about the Korean nor the Viet Nam conflicts. Ask any young person today where Arizona is, and you just may get an answer of "I never heard of that Country". Ask them who the Vice President is and they may not even know that.

We are being bred and molded into "worker bees" as the middle class dies out. There will be two classes, workers, and Government. It is History repeating itself over and over, again.

Hyper inflation is being constructed now as it was in the 20's. A cheap way to pay our National debt. We are IN a depression make no mistake about this. If the news media was honest instead of cooperative with government, we 'workers' would be terrified of what is going on in our bankrupt society. My three cents, only. 'Hub

[IamOld]

Yes, hyperinflation was "planned' in Germany in the early 20's so that they could pay the stupid reparations back - which laid the seeds for ww2.

I disagree on one thing - entitlements - that is what makes a society great - Germany is doing quite well, so is France - the Germans have had "entitlements" since the early 1880's - that hasn't stopped them from being an economic and manufacturing giant. As you said, Nixon, Clinton, and both Bushes and Reagan all drank the "free trade" cool-aid, and there does not seem to be any politician - EXCEPT!!! Ron Paul & Libertarians AND!!! Bernie Sanders and Left Progressives who speak out against it. Bernie and Ron Paul disagree about many things but they agree about - needing to end the wars, AUDIT AND CONTROL!!! the Fed, and tariffs!!!! In fact the limited audit of the Fed for 2008 was sponsored by Bernie Sanders in the Senate and Ron Paul in the House originally. A limited audit was all they were able to push through.

And yes - this is a DEPRESSION - period. And unlike in the 30's there is no light on the horizon...

One of you guys said we can't run a country when we're all pizza delivery people - EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!

Excellent thread. Shark yours was outstanding.

My two cents in a nutshell: It was Nixon who opened up China, Clinton pushed us over to NAFTA, Clinton selling missile Guidance, Both Bushes screwing up two wars, Obama continuing George Orwell's planned society, Johnson selling our country into "entitlements" with the Great Society, and last but most important. Adolph Hitler, who state in Mein Kamph "Give me the children and I'll take the World".

Bottom line is whatever shadow government there may be, it is succeeding by dumbing our children down. My wife's Dad left in his stuff his old school books of 1920's. He was taking Calculus in his Jr. High School year, as well as Latin. He was versed in the classics as well as History and Geography.

My brother hired a young man, 21 years old. As I was working with my brother on some building, I mentioned to this young man the term Adolph Hitler, and he asked "who is that?" I asked him if he knew of the Second World War. His exact words; "They never taught me of those things." He also did not know about the Korean nor the Viet Nam conflicts. Ask any young person today where Arizona is, and you just may get an answer of "I never heard of that Country". Ask them who the Vice President is and they may not even know that.

We are being bred and molded into "worker bees" as the middle class dies out. There will be two classes, workers, and Government. It is History repeating itself over and over, again.

Hyper inflation is being constructed now as it was in the 20's. A cheap way to pay our National debt. We are IN a depression make no mistake about this. If the news media was honest instead of cooperative with government, we 'workers' would be terrified of what is going on in our bankrupt society. My three cents, only. 'Hub

[discouraged]

After the depressing news of the dow this week, along with reports that even good old wallmart is losing customers, everything all of you is saying is so true. The remark Obama made this week about wanting to see everything say 'Made in USA', ya, like that's gonna happen anytime soon.

Too little, too late.

[IamOld]

Hello discouraged! I think whichever/whatever political party would state unequivocally that they will reinstitute tariffs, get out of NAFTA and WTO, and bring manufacturing back to the US would win - period.

[discouraged]

I believe that too. It will be interesting to see what he has to say when congress is again in session, which is when he is supposed to reveal his 'plan'. Let's hope they come up with something doable.

[AngelinaCatHub]

Yes, hyperinflation was "planned' in Germany in the early 20's so that they could pay the stupid reparations back - which laid the seeds for ww2.

I disagree on one thing - entitlements - that is what makes a society great - Germany is doing quite well, so is France - the Germans have had "entitlements" since the early 1880's - that hasn't stopped them from being an economic and manufacturing giant. As you said, Nixon, Clinton, and both Bushes and Reagan all drank the "free trade" cool-aid, and there does not seem to be any politician - EXCEPT!!! Ron Paul & Libertarians AND!!! Bernie Sanders and Left Progressives who speak out against it. Bernie and Ron Paul disagree about many things but they agree about - needing to end the wars, AUDIT AND CONTROL!!! the Fed, and tariffs!!!! In fact the limited audit of the Fed for 2008 was sponsored by Bernie Sanders in the Senate and Ron Paul in the House originally. A limited audit was all they were able to push through.

And yes - this is a DEPRESSION - period. And unlike in the 30's there is no light on the horizon...

One of you guys said we can't run a country when we're all pizza delivery people - EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!

Greetings IAO. You are not that old but I feel like I am. I agree with your response to my post, but I wish to share a little eye opener for me.

I once rescued helped a traveler in the night (literally) who had a black husband and she is white. She also was on bad stuff. Mrs. and I got them both on an even keel and off the stit and dry. They have been on their own for some time and are still clean.

So, We dropped by today by just a ride. What did we find but their electric was turned off. They are both on some sort of medical "entitlements". So, they asked if we had any kerosene for lamps and to get water. So, Mrs. and I went and purchased lights and a bit of diesel and wicks for lamps and canned goods, and a radio and batteries. It dawned on me that WE don't have these things in the event of emergency and we live in hurricane alley FL.

I asked the man (who dearly loves his 'Bammy) how is "hope and change" working out for you? He stated he is not impressed less than ever. I told him that we are not in a recession, but a full forced Depression. I saw no less than five new for sale by owner signs as we drove over.

Now IAO, I must state you have two different candidate that I cannot understand. One a communist and one a near anarchist. However I do agree with their common agreement that this Country is lost if we do not put industry back to this Country. I dislike seeing "Made in China" on every damned thing I purchase. Soon we will all become the rhetorical Chines laundry who washes clothes for his neighbor who washes clothes for his neighbor, etc..

My point above is this. I see, I observe, I think I am prepared for the worse, yet when I purchase for another, I find myself lacking. We just do NOT realize how bad of condition we are in NOW. 'Hub

[IamOld]

We ARE indeed in a very very bad condition, no doubt! But Bernie Sanders is no communist (he's a social democrat)...take a look at his Senate website. He's a good man, working hard for VT!! ROn Paul I cannot vouch for :-) The reason I mention these two very different men, is that they are among the few who say without a doubt - NO "free trade," and that we should...nationalize the fed!

Re your experience - there is ZERO doubt that there are always people who "milk" any kind of system....that's human nature. It's not good but...it is...and yes, it is a Depression. I couldn't agree with you more!!!!!

Now, you know by know that I am dissapointed in Mr. Obama, but perhaps for different reasons :-)

I have two kids - and I truly truly fear for their future...

Greetings IAO. You are not that old but I feel like I am. I agree with your response to my post, but I wish to share a little eye opener for me.

I once rescued helped a traveler in the night (literally) who had a black husband and she is white. She also was on bad stuff. Mrs. and I got them both on an even keel and off the stit and dry. They have been on their own for some time and are still clean.

So, We dropped by today by just a ride. What did we find but their electric was turned off. They are both on some sort of medical "entitlements". So, they asked if we had any kerosene for lamps and to get water. So, Mrs. and I went and purchased lights and a bit of diesel and wicks for lamps and canned goods, and a radio and batteries. It dawned on me that WE don't have these things in the event of emergency and we live in hurricane alley FL.

I asked the man (who dearly loves his 'Bammy) how is "hope and change" working out for you? He stated he is not impressed less than ever. I told him that we are not in a recession, but a full forced Depression. I saw no less than five new for sale by owner signs as we drove over.

Now IAO, I must state you have two different candidate that I cannot understand. One a communist and one a near anarchist. However I do agree with their common agreement that this Country is lost if we do not put industry back to this Country. I dislike seeing "Made in China" on every damned thing I purchase. Soon we will all become the rhetorical Chines laundry who washes clothes for his neighbor who washes clothes for his neighbor, etc..

My point above is this. I see, I observe, I think I am prepared for the worse, yet when I purchase for another, I find myself lacking. We just do NOT realize how bad of condition we are in NOW. 'Hub

[shark66]

Another thing that Sanders and Paul have in common - as different as they might be in many respects - is that none of them bends in accordance to the currently prevailing winds. You can find a couple of more principled hotheads that are not for sale (Kucinich comes to mind) but all in all, they are a minority.

Obama is not principled by any stretch of imagination. He's a career politician, as corrupt as they come. That's where my dislike for him comes from. He's been bought and paid for, and then some.

That's why his presidency will be a disaster for the people of this country.

And that's just adding to the disaster that GWB was...

Good luck to us all.

[IamOld]

Once again Shark, I couldn't agree with you more!!!

Another thing that Sanders and Paul have in common - as different as they might be in many respects - is that none of them bends in accordance to the currently prevailing winds. You can find a couple of more principled hotheads that are not for sale (Kucinich comes to mind) but all in all, they are a minority.

Obama is not principled by any stretch of imagination. He's a career politician, as corrupt as they come. That's where my dislike for him comes from. He's been bought and paid for, and then some.

That's why his presidency will be a disaster for the people of this country.

And that's just adding to the disaster that GWB was...

Good luck to us all.

[AngelinaCatHub]

We ARE indeed in a very very bad condition, no doubt! But Bernie Sanders is no communist (he's a social democrat)...take a look at his Senate website. He's a good man, working hard for VT!! ROn Paul I cannot vouch for :-) The reason I mention these two very different men, is that they are among the few who say without a doubt - NO "free trade," and that we should...nationalize the fed!

Re your experience - there is ZERO doubt that there are always people who "milk" any kind of system....that's human nature. It's not good but...it is...and yes, it is a Depression. I couldn't agree with you more!!!!!

Now, you know by know that I am dissapointed in Mr. Obama, but perhaps for different reasons :-)

I have two kids - and I truly truly fear for their future...

Yes, friend: We do agree but for different reasons. I too think that you, I, of our age, have lived the best time of our century. It is far too bad that we, who realize what has happened live to know that we left to our future generation, troubles far beyond what we have realized.

I class myself as an Independent or Conservative. I dislike both parties though have to lean towards the lessors of what I consider the evils. Put yourself back to 1960, and to 64, who would you have voted for? I would have voted for Kennedy (but I was too young to vote), but you realize the 60's group were in riots and war protests against a Democrat government? Nixon who got us out of Viet Nam (bowed out or the like) was a Rep. Politics as crooked then as now.

So, the pendulum swings to and fro. The unfortunate thing is, I know a bit of history, and I see we as Germany was during the rise of the Reich. I hope to see another election, but now and again, I doubt we may not see another free election. I hope I am wrong. 'Hub