TT doesn't like $0 Value of LLC

[montana59451]

TT does not like $0 value of LLC. LLC is still in existance, however has not generated any income since 2/22/10. Filed CH 7 non-consumer on 2/25/10. It is not a coincidence, truck broke down and don't have $$$ to repair it. Filing was in the works anyway. We have revoked our federal authority as of 2/24/10 (which the feds made official on 3/24/2010 - they have to leave it out there for 30 days because insurance filing requirements force additional 30 days). The authority for running over the road IS the basis of the LLC.

TT now wants us to prove value of LLC is $0 and has requested P&L statements for all of 2009 and 1/1/10 - 2/25/10 (day of filing). So she wants the P&L for a total of 14 months. We are a small company just me and my wife and we have not done a P&L before so I don't really know what she wants or is looking for. I suspect that she is looking to turn this into some type of asset case (right now we are a no asset case).

There are no assets to be had and the LLC is worth $0. How can I give her something she will accept without trying to figure out a P&L for her? I have submitted 2008 Partnership returns which showed a -$89,000 (approx) ordinary business loss. Doing 2009 partnership return now and this will show an approximate $22,000 profit which got paid out to myself and my wife on our K-1.

BUT 3 & 4th quarter of 2009 were bad as freight rates dropped and shipments dropped due to economy. Things deteriorated further in Jan and Feb and consequently from Jan 1-Feb 22 worked only from January 12-Feb 22

When we filed we had only $336 in the business account. What can I give her to satisfy her without spending the next two weeks that will satisfy her. I am not a bookkeeper nor is my wife. We do our own taxes but do not keep records as in depth as I see P&L forms ask for.

What is she really looking for?

[justbroke]

There are no assets to be had and the LLC is worth $0.

What about the Truck?

How can I give her something she will accept without trying to figure out a P&L for her? I have submitted 2008 Partnership returns which showed a -$89,000 (approx) ordinary business loss. Doing 2009 partnership return now and this will show an approximate $22,000 profit which got paid out to myself and my wife on our K-1.

You need to provide common business records when it's a business (non-consumer) case. The Trustee wants to know, in a P&L document, what your liabilities and assets are. I would say the Truck was an asset, if it was part of the LLC.

When we filed we had only $336 in the business account. What can I give her to satisfy her without spending the next two weeks that will satisfy her. I am not a bookkeeper nor is my wife. We do our own taxes but do not keep records as in depth as I see P&L forms ask for.

She is looking for assets whether they it's A/R, inventory, or property. A P&L is a common business document used to show what the business picture looks like.

You may need to hire a CPA to generate a P&L statement for you. Please don't hesitate or delay! The Trustee/UST can have your case dismissed for failure to provide documentation!

Did you file with an attorney? If so, perhaps s/he can get you to a CPA.

[montana59451]

LLC owns no truck or trailer. We have been using a truck which belongs to a friend and he charges us nothing for the use of it, all we have to do is pay for any repairs. He is using another truck he owns and didn't want this one just sitting. We own no trailer because all we do is "power only" i.e. pull someone else's trailer which is loaded by the trailer's owner.

We filed pro se so I will have to work on it. The only asset the LLC owned was the Authority and myself (the driver). I have been looking at P&L forms online and they seem very complicated. Hopefully I can find one that is NOT 2 pages long. Thanks!

[justbroke]

LLC owns no truck or trailer. We have been using a truck which belongs to a friend and he charges us nothing for the use of it, all we have to do is pay for any repairs. He is using another truck he owns and didn't want this one just sitting. We own no trailer because all we do is "power only" i.e. pull someone else's trailer which is loaded by the trailer's owner.

We filed pro se so I will have to work on it. The only asset the LLC owned was the Authority and myself (the driver). I have been looking at P&L forms online and they seem very complicated. Hopefully I can find one that is NOT 2 pages long. Thanks!

Here is a link to a single page "small business" P&L. I think your problem isn't so much that the Trustee is after you specifically, but trying to determine, through the use of a certified P&L statement, that you have no A/R or other income due. I'm happy to learn that the LLC doesn't own the Truck.

http://www.smallbusinessnotes.com/operating/finmgmt/financialstmts/incomeexample.html

They are pretty simple if you kept good records. Otherwise, figuring out your expenses could be difficult.

[montana59451]

You are a treasure trove of info and help! Thanks...this was just what I was searching for something without 16 different entries for each category!

No, I don't think she is after me really I think you are right! Thanks again!

[goingcrzy]

Do you have a separate bank account set up for the LLC?

the UST wanted to see our p&l. We didn't have one or the money for a cpa. I have Quicken on my computer and was able to download the info from the bank account and generate a quick p&l. The UST was fine with what we generated - especially since I had the bank statements to back it up.

[montana59451]

Just finished 2009 taxes and I did a P&L. The numbers on my P&L are $1.08 off what Turbo Tax figured. It could be that Turbo tax rounds up or down numbers and does not allow cents. Is this going to make a difference or create a question?

Turbo Tax also generates a Profit and Loss Statement should I just use that?

[justbroke]

Just finished 2009 taxes and I did a P&L. The numbers on my P&L are $1.08 off what Turbo Tax figured. It could be that Turbo tax rounds up or down numbers and does not allow cents. Is this going to make a difference or create a question?

Turbotax used whole dollar amounts and rounds. No one is going to complain.

Turbo Tax also generates a Profit and Loss Statement should I just use that?

Depends on how detailed it is.

[montana59451]

Turbo Tax is very detailed, however it puts things in different terms (only because it has pre-populated categories and on the other one I could make my own) than the other P&L (and a very different format)

Can I upload both of them so you can see them? I do not have enough posts to do a PM (I don't have 50) and I really don't want to post them as files online.

[justbroke]

Can I upload both of them so you can see them? I do not have enough posts to do a PM (I don't have 50) and I really don't want to post them as files online.

Use your judgment. I wouldn't want to review them or anything. I would probably use the info from Turbo Tax, but do it manually by typing it up in Microsoft Word or something. Make it professional.

The reason I suggest manual, is because your business is specific to transportation and logistics, so you would want to use those terms. You know, fuel, mileage, tolls, etc, etc.... see I don't even know the lingo!