Pitney Bowes

[goingcrzy]

Hi all-

I have a Pitney Bowes Purchase Power account. I filled a personal 7 as my biz cc had a personal guarantee. I can't find the paperwork for this account.

I spoke with one person who told me it was personaly guaranteed. Ask me for the case number and my attornies number (I included it in my matrix)

I also spoke to a rathey nasty woman who said it was a business debt.

Its a 3500 debt. If I close and reopen my LLC under a new TIN it would cost about the same.

Does anyone have any experience with PB? Will they fight this or leave me alone (my lawyer thinks they are just playing hardball, that it would cost more to collect the debt)?

[frogger]

Its a 3500 debt. If I close and reopen my LLC under a new TIN it would cost about the same.

It shouldn't cost anywhere near 3500 to open a new LLC. Getting a new TIN doesn't cost anything.

[goingcrzy]

I would need to point my industry lic at the new LLC. They charge a pretty hefty fee to do this.

[justbroke]

Business debt is (usually) not dischargeable, so the LLC would still owe the debt. Because you're an LLC, all the Bankruptcy will do is get rid of yoru personal lability, but not that of the LLC.

You probably need to consult a good tax attorney/consultant. The reason I'm referring you this way is this. Even if you created a new LLC (LLC A), and moved the assets of the old LLC (LLC B) to LLC A... this could be construed as construcively hiding assets, when LLC Bhad debt. Noting that your LLC could be sued by Pitney as well.

[jadams]

Once your liability is erased in the BK, is there anything in the LLC for them to collect on? (Assets, bank account balances clearly not somehow exempt from levy, etc.)

If it's not going to be an easy sue then cash and grab, I've found business collection agencies to be more likely to just move on than personal. But $3500 is a decent amount...

My odd question -- if the OP is the principal of the LLC, can they still hound him to pay on behalf of the LLC while under the stay and/or after discharge? I agree that the LLC most likely still has liability, I just wonder what limits would exist on how Pitney Bowes could go about trying to collect it without risking violating the stay because of the personal BK.

[goingcrzy]

Thanks justbroke. Once again you have come to my rescue! You really need to write a book. You are a better source of info than the Nolo books.

Do you know what their cost would be to sue me? I wonder if it is worth their time - or if they can drag me into small claims for next to no cost.

[goingcrzy]

The LLC is for my consulting firm (without going into too much detail as I am trying to stay as anonymous as possible)

The only time there is cash in the biz account is when a client pays me, then I move it over to my personal account. So they would have to time the day perfectly. Would I be notified of this action first? Or can they just take the money? I moved banks, so I never paid them from the new account.

Thank you for all the input on this.

[justbroke]

You may want to... well the LLC may want to settle with them. Offer than $0.10 on the dollar to see if they'll bite. Just make sure you do this "as" the LLC.

[goingcrzy]

I found the paperwork. Its a bit confusing. They have "for commercial use only" all over the forms, but I had to include both my personal SSN and biz TIN. They also have written in the contract that they can come after me personally.

Seems like they are trying to walk both sides.

I guess I'll block the number and let them send letters (which go to my home address) and offer to settle sometime in the future.

[justbroke]

I found the paperwork. Its a bit confusing. They have "for commercial use only" all over the forms, but I had to include both my personal SSN and biz TIN. They also have written in the contract that they can come after me personally.

Seems like they are trying to walk both sides.

Yes, they are allowed to. The business owes the debt... you are the go to person, should the business not pay. Since you have discharged your personal liability, it's back to the business! The "for commercial use only" was probably relative to their purchasing account that you used. That has nothing to do with personal guarantees. It's just like business credit cards are supposed to be for "business purposes only", and they have personal guarantees.

It's just a contract term which allows them to cancel the contract if you use it for a purpose restricted by the contract. I wouldn't worry about those words at all.

I guess I'll block the number and let them send letters (which go to my home address) and offer to settle sometime in the future.

Sounds like a plan.

[frogger]

Even if you created a new LLC (LLC A), and moved the assets of the old LLC (LLC B) to LLC A... this could be construed as construcively hiding assets

Nothing wrong with transferring assets to another company provided that you do not hide the transfer or the assets.

[justbroke]

Nothing wrong with transferring assets to another company provided that you do not hide the transfer or the assets.

In this case, it would be. He is doing it in order to "hide" or otherwise avoid a judgment from getting the property on a debt owed by the old LLC. That is totally wrong, in this case, as illustrated.

[BigJohn]

In my case, I have a corporation. I am paying back to the bankruptcy court the value of the business in my CH13 (which is not much). If before my bankruptcy is over with, what if I start a new corporation and let the first corporation to disapear? Can they still come back on the new corporation?

[justbroke]

In my case, I have a corporation. I am paying back to the bankruptcy court the value of the business in my CH13 (which is not much). If before my bankruptcy is over with, what if I start a new corporation and let the first corporation to disapear? Can they still come back on the new corporation?

If you let the old corp dissolve or otherwise die... I don't see issues with a new corporation. My only concern is with assets that were part of the first corporation being transferred to the new corporation... and what that could mean.

[last2cents]

If you left the old corp dissolve or otherwise die... I don't see issues with a new corporation. My only concern is with assets that were part of the first corporation being transferred to the new corporation... and what that could mean.

chiming in here with a related question .......what about if the new corporation purchased some (not all) of the assets of the old corporation at FMV in cash, and the old corporation used those funds to pay out to various creditors as part of a liquidation prior to dissolution?