Bankruptcy "Stay Process" Violation?

[justbroke]

Well, I basically went through the same process. Only my creditor attorney rejected the amount I put in the Motion to Redeem. After I filed an Opposition to Creditor Objection to Motion to Redeem, they saw the light; I had mentioned in the Opposition, I noted that the "date" for value is the hearing date and that they had used a 2 year old valuation! They saw the light. They actually offered to redeem for LESS than what I had asked the Judge, so it was no argument from me! (It had over $500 equity after the redemption! Luckily, I had already exempted the equity on Schedule C.)

IN any event, you live your learn. I created a stipulated order agreeing to the agreed amount and then sent it to the creditor attorney for signature. I asked them if they wanted me to file the stipulation, and they said they would do it. It was filed the next day! Worked for me!

By the way, you are very welcome. That's what we are here for! (Although I'm sorry that you didn't get to the $4K value that you wanted.)

[1richard1]

In giving the counter offer by Wells Fargo, $7,500 more consideration, plus adding in court and attorney fees, high interest rate which is $$$ paid monthly to U.S. Bank final decision was to let the car go. I contacted my attorney Friday evening, also, sent a fax to Wells Fargo and U.S. Bank. The cost factor associated with the redemption is simply too high. Notified them in writing, rejected the counter offer and to cancel out the U.S. Bank loan offer. Advised Wells Fargo to proceed with the scheduled sale of the car unless they'd extend a better offer.

I think you'd agree with this decision, based on the financial aspect.

[justbroke]

I am glad to have, perhaps, helped you to evaluate the situation objectively and it is my hope that this decision serves you well. Perhaps your lender will come back with a better reaffirmation deal, but it's unlikely. I think that you are making a good choice; even though it may "hurt" for a little while as you find new transportation.

[1richard1]

Your input helped me evaluate the different options, also to understand the process. At this juncture, advised by 3 people within Wells Fargo BK dept. that their supervisor will not go less then $7,500. Also, that they're re-scheduling the car for auction and will sale it later this week. I told them ok, that's fine. Reason being, add on the lawyer fee for the redemption, tow fee to get the car, plus engine fees even though a family member would help and simply not worth it. Cost factor, effort and aggravation. At even $5,000 I'd take on the project, yet with their counter offer just not worth it. I also faxed them in writing that their offer is too high, won't be pursuing the car further, and consent for them to sell it. Agree, they'll just sell it at auction. I have transportation in the meantime, parents lent me an extra car for awhile. No car payment, no interest! Gonna save $$$ for awhile, allow the BK to age for a minimum of 3 years, so that once buying a car will at least get a Tier 2 auto loan financing. No desire to pay 20-30% interest for a car, as was the offer by U.S. Bank. Most car loans are 0-6%, highest I'd pay is about 10% tops. So, will sit tight and see how the economy, income transpires over the next few years.

[bcohen]

I am happy to hear that you're dumping this money pit. With all due respect, if the engine died on a 4-5 year old car, and you didn't damage it in a collision, run it without enough oil, or otherwise cause the problem yourself, that speaks volumes about the reliability of this particular engine design. In other words, you could replace the engine and have the same problem again in a few years. Other than the Chrysler LHS and Sebring, I can't think of any model car that would suffer engine failure after such a short time of use. In my family, we have owned several Toyota Corolla's and Camry's, and gotten more than 200,000 miles on each without any serious mechanical problems--and certainly not having to change the engine.

If Wells Fargo thinks they can get more than $10k at auction for a car with a dead engine, good luck with that. Even a salvage company that parts out the car and sells the parts for top dollar wouldn't be able to pay more than $3500 or they wouldn't make a profit. Even if the car was running and in good condition, I doubt they'd get more than $12k at auction.

[1richard1]

I called Wells Fargo BK dept. this afternoon, representative informed me as follows: We did receive your fax document of not accepting the bank counter offer of $7,500. Notes from our manager in the system are very clear, $7,500 is the rock bottom we'd accept. If you want the car your attorney will first need to file the 722 Motion process, forward us the documentation as evidence.

I've now in writing and verbally inquired about a reduced amount, yet they won't budge. So, was very clear in writing in the fax I sent and in speaking with them today. Told her it does not make financial business sense for me to pay you $7,500, plus say $1,000 in court/attorney redemption fees let alone on a car inoperable, blown motor with $11,000 in documentation for repairs. I asked that she'd comment the account with what I've said and also reminded her to re-schedule the sale. She said it has not yet been re-scheduled for sale, but that they will do it. Lastly, she said they will not reduce their offer.

What's shocking to me, they want $7,500 plus will have to pay auction fees too right? In addition, fully disclose to any potential buyer the vehicle will not start, engine blown and non operable. I'd think the car would be sold AS IS, yet any potential buyers would be made aware of this. Anyhow, I highly doubt they'll call me back at this point. At this juncture likely they'll sale it.

I have transportation for now, 0 car payment. Will buy another car in a few years, as the credit improves to minimize interest paid to a bank. Also, not just auto loan interest but banks have the auto loan contracts rigged. All about upfront interest, amortization cycle. First few years bank is paid mostly interest only, little applied to principle. Look at the first year of an auto loan, while making payments. Vastly majority is pure interest to the bank. Maybe just me, yet seems deceitful telling people their APR may be say 5-7% on their auto loan. However, first year bank gets almost pure interest. Like as if the first year of an auto loan the interest rate is more like 90%! Maybe I am being unreasonable here, banks hold the leverage in regards to contractual amortization cycle interest payments being credited. Buy why??? We subsidize these banks with our tax dollars, happened in the 1980s with the Savings and Loan Collapse and in 2006-2008, Wall Street Banking meltdown.

[IamOld]

you are in no way unreasonable...ive never seen an amotization schedule pre borrowing...it is a nice game...u pay X for the first year or twi and yet make very little headway...

[1richard1]

Agree. Fully legal, to date of course.

Example: Wells Fargo extended a check to the dealership for $25,000, after my down payment and so forth a few years back. In my years of payments, I've already paid Wells Fargo directly $28,000 in my monthly payments. Meaning, they've been re-paid 100% their entire principle amount of the loan plus $3,000 in interest too. However, they still want $7,500 by means of a settlement on a car that's inoperable or a re-affirmation agreement of $13,000, 8.75% interest rate.

It's not the banks fault the car is inoperable, yet contractually I do agree it makes business sense to let the car go. This is all contingent on the bank offer, which I've rejected.

Further, I don't agree with the merits behind amortization schedules. As Suze Ormon states, "don't take on a car loan for more then 3 years, or if you do you'd better pay much more money monthly." If not, the interest paid is truly significant!!!

Amazed the people don't demand change to this, we own the banks through our tax dollars and our investments. If not for we the people, the banks would collapse. Wise for us to save $$$, be an investor and not a debtor. However, the economic collapse of 2006 changed that for millions of Americans. For those whom have watched, "Inside Job," will realize it was initially the Wall Street financial sector and large investment firms that sought de-regulation beginning back in the early 1980s. It did NOT "initially" begin with consumers asking for de-regulation. It all eventually led to Americans carrying more debt, eventually loss of income, job security, defaults and so forth. Even today Federal Reserve Chairman stated that nationwide the real estate market is highly volatile, main cause for stability within the economy.