Property transfer that I can't undo

[Skinsfan]

I made a property transfer in February, 2010. It was cash to a trust in my daughter's name. I can't undo this legally. I will list this on my Chapter 7 filing.

Can I apply the "wild card" exemption to this money? Any other way to avoid having to give this to the trustee? Looks like a two year look back here in Virginia. Legal ways only.

[backtoschool]

The trustee will go after your daughter's trust for the money. You will most likely have to settle on payment with the trustee. Since the property/cash is no longer in your name, you cannot apply an exemption to it.

[Skinsfan]

The trustee will go after your daughter's trust for the money. You will most likely have to settle on payment with the trustee. Since the property/cash is no longer in your name, you cannot apply an exemption to it.

Yeah, that's what I was afraid of. I guess I'll just have to eat it. Ah, if I only knew then what I know now. Rats.

[Skinsfan]

The trustee will go after your daughter's trust for the money. You will most likely have to settle on payment with the trustee. Since the property/cash is no longer in your name, you cannot apply an exemption to it.

There's a little more to my story....

In October 2009, I withdrew $2k from my daughter's trust.
In February 2010, I deposited $2k to my daughter's trust.

The withdrawl was legal because it was for her expenses, but the secondary reason was tax planning - I wanted to wait until the new year before taking any more money out of my IRA.

And this brings up a question that I may post in another forum - what is the interplay at the 341 with the judge?

Will I be allowed to try to explain to the judge what I did and why I did it? And then he rules on the matter right there at the 341?

Thanks in advance.

[Pandora]

There's a little more to my story....

In October 2009, I withdrew $2k from my daughter's trust.
In February 2010, I deposited $2k to my daughter's trust.

The withdrawl was legal because it was for her expenses, but the secondary reason was tax planning - I wanted to wait until the new year before taking any more money out of my IRA.

And this brings up a question that I may post in another forum - what is the interplay at the 341 with the judge?

Will I be allowed to try to explain to the judge what I did and why I did it? And then he rules on the matter right there at the 341?

Thanks in advance.

I dont believe there is a judge at your 341 - only the trustee and/or the trustee's representative - then you and your lawyer; along with all the other people that are filing. Unless its different for CH. 7 vs. CH 13... but I dont think it is...

[Flamingo]

You obviously have access to the trust money if you were able to withdraw it and deposit it; therefore, since you have availability to those funds and your name is obviously on there as the trustee (is this actually a trust or a custodial account for a minor?), those funds are considered an asset to you. You need to divulge the entire scenario to your attorney. Not to do so would be fraudulent.

[frogger]

Will I be allowed to try to explain to the judge what I did and why I did it?

Due to the volume of information provided in our case, when questions arose, the attorney referred the trustee to us to provide answers. I provided most of them and the wife provided the rest.

Our trustee was very receptive to the truth, regardless of where it came from.

[Skinsfan]

You obviously have access to the trust money if you were able to withdraw it and deposit it; therefore, since you have availability to those funds and your name is obviously on there as the trustee (is this actually a trust or a custodial account for a minor?), those funds are considered an asset to you. You need to divulge the entire scenario to your attorney. Not to do so would be fraudulent.

Sorry to be blunt, but you don't know what you are talking about.

UTMA Withdrawal Rules:

A withdrawal can be initiated by the custodian for the benefit of the child, as long as the expenses are for legitimate needs. Withdrawals are not limited to college costs, and can be used for pre-college educational expenses.

http://collegesavings.about.com/od/ugmautmacustodialaccts/ss/custodialacct_6.htm

I withdrew for legitimate expenses. I have all the documentation.

UTMA accounts are protected in bankruptcy just like 529 plans.

[Pandora]

Skinsfan

May I ask you a question - you dont have to answer but... I think its a valid question. Why do you ask people for assistance or post questions, if you're just going to provide the answers yourself and question what everyone responds with? You've done this so many times and come back with sarcastic responses that people are just going to ignore your posts.

Just my .02 cents worth anyway....

And - for the record - a trustee of the account of a minor and a custodian in C/O are 2 different things. I am a custodian on my sons SS account, and because that is something I have control over for HIS use - it was counted as an asset, so yes - it can be taken and counted.

[Skinsfan]

Skinsfan

May I ask you a question - you dont have to answer but... I think its a valid question. Why do you ask people for assistance or post questions, if you're just going to provide the answers yourself and question what everyone responds with? You've done this so many times and come back with sarcastic responses that people are just going to ignore your posts.

Just my .02 cents worth anyway....

And - for the record - a trustee of the account of a minor and a custodian in C/O are 2 different things. I am a custodian on my sons SS account, and because that is something I have control over for HIS use - it was counted as an asset, so yes - it can be taken and counted.

There's the difference, Pandora. You qualify your posts with, "my .02." Instead of gathering the facts, Flamingo jumps the gun and starts accusing people of fraud.

I don't understand your comment about answering my own questions.

BTW, that wasn't sarcasm, it was in insult.

[Pandora]

There's the difference, Pandora. You qualify your posts with, "my .02." Instead of gathering the facts, Flamingo jumps the gun and starts accusing people of fraud.

I don't understand your comment about answering my own questions.

BTW, that wasn't sarcasm, it was in insult.

Sorry, was gone a bit.

To answer your question re: answering your own questions:

You asked in your 1st post: "Can I apply the "wild card" exemption to this money? Any other way to avoid having to give this to the trustee? Looks like a two year look back here in Virginia. Legal ways only..... Yeah thats what I thought - rats... (pertaining to if the trustee would take it - legally)..."

You answered the question in your own post: "Sorry to be blunt, but you don't know what you are talking about.

UTMA Withdrawal Rules:

A withdrawal can be initiated by the custodian for the benefit of the child, as long as the expenses are for legitimate needs. Withdrawals are not limited to college costs, and can be used for pre-college educational expenses.

http://collegesavings.about.com/od/u...dialacct_6.htm

I withdrew for legitimate expenses. I have all the documentation.

UTMA accounts are protected in bankruptcy just like 529 plans."

And you've done it several times in other posts... so my question to you is - why if you're going to look up the answer after the fact and after people have posted their replies to you; even bother posting to begin with?

I know the difference between sarcasm and insults - and it can be construed either way actually. I see it as sarcastic because it wasnt directed at me directly whereas the person it was directed at may see it as an insult. Get my meaning now?

The bottom line is and remains, to me at least (and I cant be the only one who reads it the way I am, or perhaps maybe I am.. who knows LOL) but - when you post a question, others are here to 1. help you and 2. others that are reading and/or lurking, are also on here to learn. I dont believe what Flamingo posted was an "in your face - you're doing fraud" type of thing, I believe it was posed as a question of sorts, or at least, thats how I read it and interpreted it. At any rate... from what I know as to how the trustee or custodian on account works is this:

You are either the trustee on the trust account or you are the custodian in Care Of with the childs name on it as well. Either way it can be taken and counted as an asset against you I believe, as I stated, our sons was even though its "in care of" (as in Custodial) - because he legally cannot, due to his age, pull monies out of that account until the age of 16 in the state of Virginia - however I can, both deposit and withdraw at any time for any reason - until his 18th birthday, to which I will no longer have access/control. At the age of 16 he can - but he must still require my signature to do so, until at the age of 18 it becomes his full and clear. When it comes to a "trustee" situation - the age of the child doesnt come into play until the trust age is reached.

Again - thats how it was explained to me when our childrens accounts were opened 18 years ago with my daughter (I am disabled) and with our son as well. I am custodian in care of his name - and it did count when we filed BK.

Give people the benefit of the doubt once in a while - the written word is hard to interpret monotone and I dont think people are coming across as snitty as you think sometimes

[Skinsfan]

I like you Pandora.

[Pandora]

well uhm... I like you too there Skinsfan

LOL

Cookie?

[backtoschool]

Now that the resounding chorus of "Kumbayah" is over I will post again in the thread.

Flamingo was not accusing you of fraud.

College savings trusts have to have deposits put in there a year before filing for the money to be exempt. 529 accounts are only protected on money put in the account a year before filing. Many trustees interpret all college savings trusts as having the same rules applied to them as 529 accounts. So, you would have to wait until after February 2011 to file to have that money be exempt under the college savings plan exemptions.

Right now, that money is an asset that will be considered property of the estate.